We have played that when you defeat the villain, and he has nowhere to escape, the game ends immediately, and the final location's When Permanently Closed effects do not trigger.
If this is correct, would the same be true if you end a scenario without villains (one which requires closing all locations) by clearing the last location (or defeating the last location's henchman) and successfully meeting the "When Closing" condition? Or, because we had to actually close the location ourselves, would it trigger and then end the game?
Thanks!
We have played that when you defeat the villain, and he has nowhere to escape, the game ends immediately, and the final location's When Permanently Closed effects do not trigger.
This is incorrect. This has been discussed on the forum (I bet Hawkmoon can find the thread). The game ends when you defeat and corner the last villain (usually), but the When Permenently Closed effect of the villain's location does trigger, and in a worse case scenario, can kill you.
If this is correct, would the same be true if you end a scenario without villains (one which requires closing all locations) by clearing the last location (or defeating the last location's henchman) and successfully meeting the "When Closing" condition? Or, because we had to actually close the location ourselves, would it trigger and then end the game?
So obviously it's the latter. The When Permanently Closed effect of the last location does trigger.
BTW Could you delete all the extra threads you created for this question?
Certainly! How embarrassing!
I tried to search for an answer to my question before posting, but perhaps my search skills rival my posting skills. I thank you for your help!
Steps to encounter a villain (WotR rulebook p16-17):
1. Attempt to Temporarily Close Open Locations.
2. Encounter the Villain.
3. If You Defeat the Villain, Close the Villain's Location.
4. Check to See Whether the Villain Escapes.
5. If the Villain Has Nowhere to Escape to, You Win!
As should hopefully be obvious, step 3 happens before step 5. This means you apply the When Permanently Closed effect of the location before you get around to winning the scenario. Yes, this can mean that your character can die or you could even lose the scenario before being able to win it. An example for losing the scenario would be a location whose When Permanently Closed effect requires you to discard cards from the blessings deck when there aren't enough cards to discard -- I do not believe any such locations exist, however.
This is the thread to which elcoderdude referred. It is rather insightful.
An example for losing the scenario would be a location whose When Permanently Closed effect requires you to discard cards from the blessings deck when there aren't enough cards to discard -- I do not believe any such locations exist, however.
The name of this location is Fort Hazzard. It appears in S&S deck 1.
It appears in S&S deck16.
Typo above. I meant to say deck 6. Fort Hazzard, which appears in S&S deck 6, requires you to discard 1d4 cards from the blessings deck when permanently closed. It can therefore cause you to time out the scenario before you check to see if the villain can escape.
A similar thing can sort of happen during RotR's Trouble in Sandpoint. The villain requires you to summon and encounter a Wrathful Sinspawn, while the scenario states that after encountering a Wrathful Sinspawn, roll 1d6 and on a 1 discard the top card of the blessings deck. Thus, if you encounter the villain with no cards left in the blessings deck and after the encounter with the summoned Wrathful Sinspawn roll a 1, you will lose the scenario before you actually get to attempting the check to defeat the villain.
Back to what elcoderdude said earlier: Other locations that can kill you include Dagon's Jaws, Theater of Corruption, and Windward Isle, all of which require you to draw at least 1 card.
Hum... the "finish one thing before you do the other" rule could let you think it should be played this way :
Finish the step 3 (close the villain location, applying permanent closing effects, including end of turn, thus death) before you deal with steps 4 and 5.
But it terribly looks like managing the stack (as in MTG)... and we all know that not-this-Mike was very clear on the non-stacking-philosophy of PACG.
So someone could argue that "finish one thing before you do the other" could indeed means finish dealing with the villain before you deal with the impact of the Permanent close. I. e. step 3 triggers (as per the rulebook) the Permanent Closing effect (i. e. I will have to end my turn), but I need to finish steps 4 and 5 of my encounter with the villain before I actually end my turn. Thus I win and finish the game before ctually dying... so I survive to play another scenario.
Interestning case... Maybe Mike answered it before but only Ultimate-Hawk-Machine could tell us that.
Hum... the "finish one thing before you do the other" rule could let you think it should be played this way :
Finish the step 3 (close the villain location, applying permanent closing effects, including end of turn, thus death) before you deal with steps 4 and 5.
But it terribly looks like managing the stack (as in MTG)... and we all know that not-this-Mike was very clear on the non-stacking-philosophy of PACG.
So someone could argue that "finish one thing before you do the other" could indeed means finish dealing with the villain before you deal with the impact of the Permanent close. I. e. step 3 triggers (as per the rulebook) the Permanent Closing effect (i. e. I will have to end my turn), but I need to finish steps 4 and 5 of my encounter with the villain before I actually end my turn. Thus I win and finish the game before ctually dying... so I survive to play another scenario.
Interestning case... Maybe Mike answered it before but only Ultimate-Hawk-Machine could tell us that.
Exactly the opposite. Finish one thing before you start another tells you to finish permanently closing the location and all that entails (step 3) before starting the next step in the villain encounter sequence (step 4).
There is no stack in that process. Step 3 explicitly tells you to do the When Permanently Closed effect, so doing all of that is part of that step. The step isn't being "interrupted" by anything else.
Agreed skizzerz, that is how we play it but as I said I can imagine that "someone could argue..."
It's the internet. People will argue about everything :)