Double Hackbut question

[Iceman1077]

Okay, I have looked all over the place, and a lot of people think the double hackbut is overpowered. The one thing that NO ONE ever mentions is the fact that the double hackbut requires 6! doses of black powder to fire, according to Ultimate Combat at least, and I see no errata saying otherwise. Does the Ultimate Equipment Guide version supercede the Ultimate Combat version? If not, how does this work with paper cartridges? Can you make them, but for a higher price?

[Devilkiller]

I can't find the rule you're referencing in Ultimate Combat or on the PRD. I do see that the culverin uses 4 doses of black powder and grapeshot, but there doesn't seem to be any similar requirement in the description of the double hackbut. Is this detailed somewhere else? If so could you provide a page number for that?

[Stephen Radney-MacFarland]

"A double hackbut uses a bullet and 6 doses of black powder" (Ultimate Combat page 137). I have no idea why that information is missing from Ultimate Equipment.

Currently, there are not hackbut paper cartridges in the rules. Your GM may rule that you can use them at a higher price.

[Iceman1077]

Stephen Radney-MacFarland wrote:

"A double hackbut uses a bullet and 6 doses of black powder" (Ultimate Combat page 137). I have no idea why that information is missing from Ultimate Equipment.

Currently, there are not hackbut paper cartridges in the rules. Your GM may rule that you can use them at a higher price.

Thanks Stephen! Good to have some clarification; that certainly makes a big difference to my next character.

[Devilkiller]

Is it possible that there's a difference between different printings of Ultimate Combat or maybe between the printed edition and the PDF? I've got a printed book here, and I don't see anything about doses of black powder in the description of the Double Hackbut on page 137. If interested you can click that to see what I'm seeing and perhaps tell me if I'm just looking in the wrong spot.

[Stephen Radney-MacFarland]

Devilkiller wrote:

Is it possible that there's a difference between different printings of Ultimate Combat or maybe between the printed edition and the PDF? I've got a printed book here, and I don't see anything about doses of black powder in the description of the Double Hackbut on page 137. If interested you can click that to see what I'm seeing and perhaps tell me if I'm just looking in the wrong spot.

Yeah, it was a change made in a later printing. The first printing does not have it. Later printings should as well as the more current PDF.

[Chess Pwn]

Wow, this might cause me to unban the Hackbut. because using normal paper cartridges made it too crazy.

[Devilkiller]

@Stephen - Thanks for helping reassure me that I haven't totally lost my mind as well as possibly clearing up why a lot of people didn't seem to know about this rule! I generally check online sources first and suspect that an update to the PRD would help spread the news.

[Iceman1077]

Another question regarding the Double Hackbut, and the spell "Reloading Hands".

Reloading Hands wrote:

Once per round, phantom hands load a single ranged weapon or firearm with conjured ammunition. This ammunition counts as magical for overcoming damage reduction and attacking incorporeal creatures, but is the standard for its type (a normal bullet or pellets and black powder in the case of firearms). Conjured ammunition ceases to exist 1 round after it is removed from the weapon, or at the end of the duration, whichever comes first.

Does the spell create a bullet and 6 doses of black powder when used on a double hackbut? And how long does the spell take to reload the weapon?