What class to help bizarre party composition?


Advice


Hey everyone, so i'm about to re-join a pathfinder gaming group that I haven't been able to attend because of work schedule. They are starting the RotRL adventure path. They currently have in their party a Bloodrager (Draconic Bloodline) A Warpriest and a Cleric.(Everyone is equipped for hand to hand combat) So in light of this i'm trying to decide which class I could play that would be of most use to this party, I am totally up for playing any class, and any suggestions are helpful!

Scarab Sages

Before reading your post, I was going to come in and give my default answer of "A Fighter" but since everyone else is h2h focused, then I would go with either a Wizard (arcane spellcasting at range) or a Rogue (skill monkey and ranged combat).

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

With the Warpriest and Cleric, the party should be covered for healing and divine magic. The shortfalls would appear to be in Arcane magic and ranged combat.

Neither of those is strictly necessary: the Cleric spell list is fairly comprehensive about must-have spells, and if the Bloodrager and Warpriest have backup ranged weapons you at least won't be defenseless in a ranged standoff.

I'd avoid another melee character or divine caster, though. A ranger, wizard, or witch would help filling out the missing roles. (I'd avoid sorcerer - if your raison d'etre is to fill gaps in the spell list, you want access to as many spells as possible. Try an Arcanist if you really want a spontaneous mechanic.)

But, personally, I'd play a debuff bard. Inspire courage is a great numeric buff for your attack-roll happy allies, and you can focus on the kind of debuff spells that the divine spell lists tend to lack - glitterdust, grease, hideous laughter. It would enable a set 'em up/knock 'em down party dynamic.


I would suggest witch, although an archer/debuffing skald makes a close second.

Scarab Sages

Maybe a Psychic, or an Alchemist?

Lantern Lodge

An Arcane Trickster would fill the arcane caster and disarm trap roles


Cover ranged as well as buff/debuff. Go bard or witch, have them act as ranged characters as well.


Need arcane. Was figuring so..

Hmmm, a bard might be good, go the good old archery route to get some ranged back up.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Ross Byers wrote:

With the Warpriest and Cleric, the party should be covered for healing and divine magic. The shortfalls would appear to be in Arcane magic and ranged combat.

Neither of those is strictly necessary: the Cleric spell list is fairly comprehensive about must-have spells, and if the Bloodrager and Warpriest have backup ranged weapons you at least won't be defenseless in a ranged standoff.

I'd avoid another melee character or divine caster, though. A ranger, wizard, or witch would help filling out the missing roles. (I'd avoid sorcerer - if your raison d'etre is to fill gaps in the spell list, you want access to as many spells as possible. Try an Arcanist if you really want a spontaneous mechanic.)

But, personally, I'd play a debuff bard. Inspire courage is a great numeric buff for your attack-roll happy allies, and you can focus on the kind of debuff spells that the divine spell lists tend to lack - glitterdust, grease, hideous laughter. It would enable a set 'em up/knock 'em down party dynamic.

I was remiss - your party is missing a 'skill monkey'. Fortunately, bards can fill that role, and Int-based casters (my other suggestion) are not terrible due to high Int scores providing abundant skill points.

Scarab Sages

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David Letterman knows how to create a well balanced party.

Grand Lodge

I've played this 2 times through. Both time with a rogue. Both times saves killed the rogue. Instantly. Both times the players stated "wish I never rolled a rogue".

Trapfinding is not 100% nessicery. A high perception and someone with detect magic is more than enough.

You want to be an arcane caster. Your party will need the CC for mid to late game.

This is the most spoiler free I can be but I highly advise AGAINST playing a rogue in your current set up.

Also playing a wizard you will get 9th level spells...time stop and going first is very helpful in the last book.


Archer Bard or Magus (Eldritch Archer)?

Or Wizard.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Alchemist. As it is int based, you will have the skills to fill in for the rest of the group, and it can fill in the glaring gap of ranged combat. Extracts (particularly with the infusion discovery) can fill in utility casting, and bombs help cover both area effect elemental damage and debuffing. The alchemist in my runelords game has been as strong, if not stronger, than the ragepounce barbarian.


Before I even opened the post, my suggestion was bard. Everything in the OP backed that up.

Just a quick semi-spoiler - you will be facing many wall o' flesh type monsters if you end up doing the whole AP. Be prepared for monsters who can deal a beating, and take a beating!

Silver Crusade

Bard: Just build with the idea you need to handle traps as well as normal bard stuff. It only takes a trait for disable device as a class skill, and one 2nd level bard spell known (Aram Zey’s Focus).


calagnar wrote:
Bard: Just build with the idea you need to handle traps as well as normal bard stuff. It only takes a trait for disable device as a class skill, and one 2nd level bard spell known (Aram Zey’s Focus).

Yep, the trait's name is Vagabond Child, and while finding/disabling traps has come up only infrequently in our game (starting book 4 now), this trait has been useful for my inquisitor those times traps have come up.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

The eldritch archer magus really could fill all the gaps you mentioned, and a bard wouldn't be bad option either. Honestly though, I'd go full arcane caster. It's called Rise of the Runelords (who were like Wizard-Kings) so it seems like something that would be right up a full arcane caster's tree.


Bard or Skald would be my recommendation.


I will put my vote in for alchemist. Maybe with at least a light bit of ranged focus.

You have plenty of beat sticks. I am thinking buffs, debuffs, and AoE here. Alchemists have decent buff spells, and their bombs are fantastic debuffing AoE.

Maybe a nice grenadier that grabs a bow. Now saying that he needs the million bomb nova- I am always against that since the the bomb discoveries basically make them into spontaenous spells. Just doing blaster with this somewhat limited resource is a waste. Nope- shoot off a decent bomb at the start, then buff and plink away with a bow as needed. That should be fine.


lemeres wrote:

I will put my vote in for alchemist. Maybe with at least a light bit of ranged focus.

You have plenty of beat sticks. I am thinking buffs, debuffs, and AoE here. Alchemists have decent buff spells, and their bombs are fantastic debuffing AoE.

Maybe a nice grenadier that grabs a bow. Now saying that he needs the million bomb nova- I am always against that since the the bomb discoveries basically make them into spontaenous spells. Just doing blaster with this somewhat limited resource is a waste. Nope- shoot off a decent bomb at the start, then buff and plink away with a bow as needed. That should be fine.

I'm currently playing a bow-wielding (goblin winged marauder) grenadier in our Iron Gods campaign and absolutely loving it.

I put this together for myself as a reference when I was building him and figured I'd share it with the boards; you might find it useful if you decide to go that route:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2s4q8?Actions-Alchemical-Splash-Weapons#1

(We're currently level 8, and Explosive Missile coupled with Alchemical Weapon has been extremely satisfying.)

Liberty's Edge

Gotta go with the Bard recommendations. Covers three of your most needed bases easily.

Grand Lodge

Idk how an archer bard (hammer/arm) fills the gap of a party with:

Bloodrager (hammer)
Warpriest (hammer)
Cleric (arm)

The logical thing missing is not another hammer. An anvil is missing. If your going to do a bard I recommend it be a caster bard that can control large amounts of foes. But I feel a bards DCs fall off.


A Bard can fulfill the gap in social encounters, it gives your party access to Arcane spells, and it can be a pretty competent Ranged combatant with Arcane Strike. As others have said, The Bloodrager and Warpriest should be at least capable with Ranged combat, so making the Bard a ringer in that aspect isn't really necessary, so I'd focus mostly on Social/Utility angles.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Idk how an archer bard (hammer/arm) fills the gap of a party with:

Bloodrager (hammer)
Warpriest (hammer)
Cleric (arm)

The logical thing missing is not another hammer. An anvil is missing. If your going to do a bard I recommend it be a caster bard that can control large amounts of foes. But I feel a bards DCs fall off.

I'm feeling like a battlefield control Wizard (anvil) would be the way to go here, especially for RotRL. Bard could also be useful, but I feel at high levels those level 7-9 Arcane spells will make a big difference.

Grand Lodge

Cheburn wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Idk how an archer bard (hammer/arm) fills the gap of a party with:

Bloodrager (hammer)
Warpriest (hammer)
Cleric (arm)

The logical thing missing is not another hammer. An anvil is missing. If your going to do a bard I recommend it be a caster bard that can control large amounts of foes. But I feel a bards DCs fall off.

I'm feeling like a battlefield control Wizard (anvil) would be the way to go here, especially for RotRL. Bard could also be useful, but I feel at high levels those level 7-9 Arcane spells will make a big difference.

Exactly. Like I said I played this AP twice through and a FULL arcane caster makes a huge difference. Especially come book 4-6. Come Mid book 3 if you do not have some serious forms of CC that can effect Living and Undead targets the group is going to have a very very very hard time. Resources will be wasted trying to keep up with all the incoming damage. I don't want to give away the fights or nothing but at 1 time I remember large numbers of Large size+ enemies that hit like mac trucks just being thrown at us. There will be a few fights that start with you on your heals and the Cleric will already be on the reactive and have no time to fix conditions and heal multiple targets. The arcane caster really helps take the load off the cleric. Especially if the Cleric is "equip for Hand to Hand combats".

Quote:
A Bard can fulfill the gap in social encounters, it gives your party access to Arcane spells, and it can be a pretty competent Ranged combatant with Arcane Strike. As others have said, The Bloodrager and Warpriest should be at least capable with Ranged combat, so making the Bard a ringer in that aspect isn't really necessary, so I'd focus mostly on Social/Utility angles.

Beyond the first 2 books there is not many "Social encounters" Everything will be trying to slaughter you in new and nasty ways. If your truely worried playing a Arcanist could work with a CHA of 13-14 to start and Diplomacy you will do well in the first book or 2.

Bard gives you access to bard only arcane spells and maybe UMD...the Wizard/Arcanist/Witch would give you Access to a lot more arcane spells of much higher Levels. As someone Pointed out its Rise of the Rune Lords. THese are ancient Azlanti Wizard KINGS. A bard has no business trying to match magical might with a Runelord. Your about 3 spell levels behind and your DCs for your spells are about 10 behind.

Ranged striker....You have 2-3 strikers already. And what is wrong with a good old fashioned Area spell or damage spell? Many Pit spells offer good damage with them. Summon monsters can bring damage. The ray army you can have from SM4 is very nice bypassing ALL DR as well.

Basically the bard synergies well with any group but the group would be so much better off with a Full arcane caster. If you desperately need a bard ask the Cleric to go with the Evangelist Archetype.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
00QuantaFS wrote:
Hey everyone, so i'm about to re-join a pathfinder gaming group that I haven't been able to attend because of work schedule. They are starting the RotRL adventure path. They currently have in their party a Bloodrager (Draconic Bloodline) A Warpriest and a Cleric.(Everyone is equipped for hand to hand combat) So in light of this i'm trying to decide which class I could play that would be of most use to this party, I am totally up for playing any class, and any suggestions are helpful!

something range focused with arcane power and a nice suite of skills, maybe a wizard, psychic, arcanist, ohh a medium if you are feeling saucy. The latter one gives you a lot of range since you get spells, skills, and the ability to swap a lot of your powers each day.

Hunter might not be bad either.

Make sure to grab spells that you can throw into the melee blob you have or take feats to let you cut allies out. Create Pit will probably be a fun one with that group.

Ohh if your GM doesn't have a problem with firearms the wizard arch that gets firearm proficiency and can launch spells out of their gun could be pretty awesome.


Wizard would be great here, investigator not too shabby either.


I´d say bard, although the focus of the cleric can make somewhat of a difference. You already have one level 9 and one level 6 caster, two or three combat-heavy characters and few skill-heavy character. Their spell list has some good buffs, debuffs and utility, so I can see it working quite well.

If you want to play a sorcerer, witch or wizard, no problem, they can work great. However, I think a bard is definitely a worthy addition and will fill out the party.


I would probably go with an arcane caster (sorcerer or summoner). Otherwise I have to second the bard, as some form of skill monkey with limited spells would come in handy too.

It might have been my DM, but I remember having met mobs in RotRL with unholy high AC values, which only the fighters could hit (I play an oracle). So someone with a full BAB might not be out of the question either, like a paladin.


Having gome through about half of the AP as a paladin I can say this; Wizards save lives.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Idk how an archer bard (hammer/arm) fills the gap of a party with:

Bloodrager (hammer)
Warpriest (hammer)
Cleric (arm)

The logical thing missing is not another hammer. An anvil is missing. If your going to do a bard I recommend it be a caster bard that can control large amounts of foes. But I feel a bards DCs fall off.

I hate the arm/hammer/anvil terms, but the concept is sound enough.

I just don't know how you decided what each of these is just based on class. Almost any class can be built for almost any role, (although Bloodrager is quite likely just a DPR machine.)

The OP said they were all focused on melee, so it could well be that they are all 'hammers'.

If that is the case, I'd go with bard and party buffing over battlefield control, and expect my encounters to be short and bloody with a cleric and war priest doing a lot of fixing after the battles.

Ideally of course all roles should be filled.


Master Summoner. Draw off the attacks your melees will be taking, while battle field controlling. Bonus: comes with a free rogue.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Definitely chiming in for bard or other skills focused arcane caster. Buffing abilities are going to be a force multiplier in this party.


When we played through most of RotRL, our group really suffered for lack of an arcane caster. There's all kinds of Thassilonian history and magics going on that a wizard or even a bard will help the party understand. You need someone with knowledge: arcana, spellcraft and linguistics or you're going to miss a lot of exposition and clues that will help keep you headed in the right direction with some semblance of an idea how and why it's the right direction. It sure felt like we were the blind leading the blind and we eventually called it quits without finishing the AP because we didn't really understand what the heck was going on the closer we got towards the end.

My DM does like to add in a lot of stuff but I'm pretty sure most of the arcane and Thassilonian stuff that we missed or struggled to put to use is stock for the AP.


Having run RotRL twice, I would also suggest a Wizard. Arcane magic is always good, and the Wizard has great flexibility. Plus, it's one of the original classes that RotRL was created around.

RotRL Spoiler:
There are a good number of Wizard opponents through the six books of the adventure (books 1-4 have at least one spellbook to be found, and subsequent books have multiple). A Wizard PC will end up with a bunch of spellbooks in his/her possession, allowing for a large number of opportunities to increase the PC's own spellbook contents. Also, due to the number of arcane spellcasters, there are a number of magic items available for loot that a Wizard might find attracitve.

Grand Lodge

born_of_fire wrote:

When we played through most of RotRL, our group really suffered for lack of an arcane caster. There's all kinds of Thassilonian history and magics going on that a wizard or even a bard will help the party understand. You need someone with knowledge: arcana, spellcraft and linguistics or you're going to miss a lot of exposition and clues that will help keep you headed in the right direction with some semblance of an idea how and why it's the right direction. It sure felt like we were the blind leading the blind and we eventually called it quits without finishing the AP because we didn't really understand what the heck was going on the closer we got towards the end.

My DM does like to add in a lot of stuff but I'm pretty sure most of the arcane and Thassilonian stuff that we missed or struggled to put to use is stock for the AP.

It is stock for this AP.

I had a 30 INT and maxed Know History, Arcana, Religion, planes, nature, and spellcraft. I was making rolls of 45 and still not getting all the info. And the only reason we won the final fight was won only because of Arcane Casting. I had to Eliminate 4 Adds during my time stop and then help the group with the boss with a greater dispel magic and Liberal use of Empowered+Intensified Lightning Bolts afterwards to help burn him down. If it was up to muscling through we would not have won the final fight. And even the AP calls it a Near Impossible fight.

I'm trying to convince to a full arcane caster without being too spoiler heavy.

But there are some encounters that muscling through is going to result in a PC death. And if my memory serves me correct it is defiantly possible to throw out a haste or other party buffs on a wizard while still providing the CC when necessary. And you can do ranged damage via spells instead when you feel like you want to help lay the smack down. Though most enemies are more than happy to rush to your face in this AP and do so very quickly.

Lantern Lodge

Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
I had to Eliminate 4 Adds during my time stop

Can you tell me how you did this?

Grand Lodge

Rod of Quicken

Round 1: quicken cloud kill + wall of force got 2.

Round 2: quickened cloud kill + prismatic wall to block them in

Round 3: quickened form of the dragon 1+ move + clenching fist

The DM called those caught in the cloud Mills dead...one tried to go through the prismatic wall and was shoved back in by the fist. DM just said they are gone.

You can't target someone in a time stop...but you can effect an area and when time stop end the effects happen. The walls held them in the effects. And the fist would have handled anyone who gets out.

My following round was spent focused on the boss with my team.

The DM stuck to script. He could time stopped and wished a few times to undo my stuff and reset the fight...but he had fun trying to kill everyone by script and felt it was already a hard fight and I did my job. Tho I was saving many of my combos for that fight choosing to do little in fights before to insure our win. Plus I just wasted 3 rod charges, and many spells...it was a fair trade.

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