We need an alternate shield prerequisite feat.


Homebrew and House Rules


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It occurs to me that the shield line of feats needs an alternative prerequisite to two weapon fighting. Not every shield user that wants feats such as shield slam and shield mastery should have to have two weapon fighting and the 15 dex that comes with it.

I assume that this would work like dirty fighting, where the feat lets you count as having TWF and a dexterity of 15 for the purposes of feats that specify shields.

But, like dirty fighting, what other minor thing could this feat do? Maybe +1 to AC when threatened by 2 or more opponents? Maybe a +1 to attacks with a shield against opponents threatening your allies?


Something like this?

Dexterous Shield
You are particularly agile in your use of a shield.
Prerequisites: Dexterity 12, Improved Shield Bash
Benefit: When using a shield bash as an off-hand attack in a full-attack action, you may make one extra attack, exactly as though you had the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. This does not stack with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. In addition, for feats that depend on Shield Proficiency (even indirectly, such as Shield Slam or Shield Master), you count as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

If you're looking specifically for another little tidbit to make the feat worth taking on its own, you might want to consider this one instead, based on Two-Weapon Defense.

Sword and Shield
You use your weapons to strengthen your defense.
Prerequisites: Improved Shield Bash, BAB +6
Benefit: In any round in which you attack with both a shield bash and another weapon, you gain a +1 bonus to AC. This bonus lasts until the beginning of your next turn. In addition, for feats that depend on Shield Proficiency (even indirectly, such as Shield Slam or Shield Master), you count as having the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.


My actual idea was for character builds that fight primarily with a shield, like the brawler. If a brawler wants to main a shield, it has to pick up two weapon fighting for the prereqs and have a dex of 15 to get the deeper feats.

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Melkiador wrote:
My actual idea was for character builds that fight primarily with a shield, like the brawler. If a brawler wants to main a shield, it has to pick up two weapon fighting for the prereqs and have a dex of 15 to get the deeper feats.

Brawlers get TWF for free.


But if you hit with your Sword and bash with your Shield, you are TWFing.

I do not see the reasoning for your argument.


Cyrad wrote:
Melkiador wrote:
My actual idea was for character builds that fight primarily with a shield, like the brawler. If a brawler wants to main a shield, it has to pick up two weapon fighting for the prereqs and have a dex of 15 to get the deeper feats.
Brawlers get TWF for free.

Sadly, they don't. They only get it while using a brawlers flurry. This means that if they make an attack that isn't a flurry, then they don't meet the prerequisite of other important feats like Shield Slam and Shield Master, so don't benefit from them on that attack. Moreover, if they don't have a dex of 15+, then they can't qualify for Shield Slam at all. If they can't qualify for Shield Slam, then they also can't take Shield Master.

Of course this issue is most obvious on the Brawler, who is most likely to attack with only a shield and no other weapon. But many other builds would also like to wield a shield on its own without other weapons. And those builds have no use for two weapon fighting, and shouldn't be forced to have a 15+ dex.


Guru-Meditation wrote:

But if you hit with your Sword and bash with your Shield, you are TWFing.

I do not see the reasoning for your argument.

I never mentioned anything about attacking with anything other than a shield.

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None of the shield feats require you to have a 15 Dex.

But you do have a point. I reason the whole shield feat tree should be overhauled. It's very annoying when feats require other feats that may or may not require it. If two feats are supposed to go well together, they should naturally synergize, not require each other.

If any shield bashing feat requires a feat tax, it should be shield focus, improved shield bash, or weapon focus (light shield or heavy shield).


The feat requires two weapon fighting which does need a 15 Dex.

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Nevan Oaks wrote:

The feat requires two weapon fighting which does need a 15 Dex.

But as a brawler, you still have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat and therefore meet the prerequisites for Shield Slam, even if that means you can only do it when flurrying. You don't need 15 Dex unless you select a feat that specifically lists it as a requirement.

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