Let me just get this out right up front. I don't like animal races (Tengu, Kitsune, Grippli, etc). They don't fit into the homebrew world I've worked so hard to create over the last 25 years.
I'm the GM in our Pathfinder games 95% of the time. The rare, rare moments I get to be a player I'm playing the party cleric (I chose the class not out of necessity for a party band aid but because I actually like playing clerics), but the module we're playing in is heating up and there's a good chance she might not make it to the end.
So, the GM of that game doesn't like 3PP classes, spells, etc. He's all about straight up PF rules and classes. But I badgered him into letting me roll up a Trickster (Kobold Press' new Rogue answer to the Magus. Check out its reviews). I love this class, and really want a chance to play it. He agreed to let me roll one up in case my cleric dies, or to play in the next campaign he runs.
So, in the interest of fairness, I told him he could play a Tengu in my campaign because he's no longer interested in playing the Half Elf Wizard he's been playing (he changes characters more than most folks change underwear). I had to really grit my teeth to allow it because there is no typical Far Eastern type setting in my homebrew world, so we're gonna have to come up with an origin story for the character. I kinda have one in mind, but he and I will have collaborate on it.
So anyway, it's after midnight and I'm just venting. Thanks for indulging a grognard the opportunity to rant for a moment.
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Survivor of magical experimentation -Some Wizards have more power than sense.
Cursed one -particularly a druid or nature witch could I see cursing someone into a bestial form. Or, perhaps it was his father or family line that was cursed, such that the firstborn would be bestial.
Maybe a poorly worded wish? (There's a joke here, but I can't use it in good taste)
There's the ever popular wanderer from another world idea. Could have been drawn by mystery magic, summons gone awry,or just walked in the wrong place on a foggy night.
Also, keep in mind that a crow person need not be Asian, First Nations people have tales of crow, coyote, and other creatures adding like people. Maybe they were more like people.
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On top of what Scythia said, have a look at how tengu are used in the Shackles on Golarion.
They're crow people who are considered magnets for bad luck, but in the scapegoat take-it-on-themselves sort of way. Everyone wants one on their ship as a good luck charm.
What I'm trying to get at is, if both animal-race and far-east-race don't fit your setting you could always take out one or both of those.
Wizards can explain most abominations (owl-bear anyone?), and regional fluff is fluff, and can be shaved off and replaced as needed.
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Maybe a poorly worded wish? (There's a joke here, but I can't use it in good taste)
Now I really wanna hear this.
The backstory he and I worked out last night (or very early this morning) was that in my setting the Hobgoblins fill the niche of the Far Eastern lands. While not necessarily the equivalent to Samurai or Ninjas, they occupy the lands that would otherwise be done so by medieval Chinese, Korean, Japanese, etc. These are called the Great Eastern Kingdoms.
In the lands north of the campaign city lie the Northern Hobgoblin Kingdoms, which were once part of a larger Hobgoblin empire and were separated from the rest of their people by wars, so they developed a government similar to but not quite the same as their Eastern counterparts. These Hobgoblins nearly hunted the Tengu (now called the Ravenfolk in my setting) to extinction, and the character he wants to play is an Inquisitor on a vengeance quest to kill as many Hobgoblins as he can before he is finally struck down.
There is war brewing between the Northern Kingdoms and the primary kingdom in my setting, and he's seeking to join the party as a means to fight against the aggressor nation.
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Maybe a poorly worded wish?
A tengu could have easily been the resolution to the Melicamp the Chicken mini-plot in the original Baldur's Gate CRPG.
What I hate is when a player insists about playing a beastly race, I warn him/her that the character would be singled out and subjected to bigotry. And they say ok. And then they get angry when they get singled out and subjected to bigotry.
I know exactly how you feel. But like I'd said earlier, this guy changes characters so often your head will spin. He emailed me earlier to tell me that he'd rolled up the Tengu then decided to scrap it in favor of a Dwarven Inquisitor after we'd come up with a good backstory and everything! AAAGGGHHH!!!!
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But like I'd said earlier, this guy changes characters so often your head will spin. He emailed me earlier to tell me that he'd rolled up the Tengu then decided to scrap it in favor of a Dwarven Inquisitor after we'd come up with a good backstory and everything! AAAGGGHHH!!!!
I have a player like this - before a campaign he'll email me pages and pages of prospective character builds/backstories/concepts/whatever. He changes his mind probably a dozen times until we begin, then inevitably gets bored with the PC by about the third book of an AP.
I don't actually mind if that's what he likes: I'd just like to plan for a frequent turnover of characters, but the trouble is that he doesn't want to change characters a lot. He always insists that this guy is going to hold his interest until the end of the campaign....yet that rarely happens and we end up having to justify a change in cast midway through.
I suspect that the character-building part of the game is the most fun for him, although he doesn't think that's the case so it's kind of hard to cater the game to his tastes (since we disagree about what they are!)
I suspect that the character-building part of the game is the most fun for him, although he doesn't think that's the case so it's kind of hard to cater the game to his tastes (since we disagree about what they are!)
I think you're probably right.
I've been known to character hop from time to time, but for me it is mostly a result of the character I envisioned and the character I ended up with were different.
As an example, I created a character once that was a CN mercenary type, but the GM expected me to jump to save every NPC that needed help. So while the character was cool to me, I realized that he wouldn't fit that campaign.
Another time I built a character that was a skill master, only to find that the GM didn't particularly like skills and so their effect was quite minimized.
One of the ways to attempt to reduce these kind of situations is to make sure that expectations on both the player side and the GM side are well known.
I suspect that the character-building part of the game is the most fun for him
Yeah, such players exist - I am one of them. I solved it by designing a lot of NPCs and carefully thinking what I really want as a PC, ignoring party 'needs', optimization issues and the urge to play them all (just for completion's sake, meh).
So maybe let your player design some key NPCs - give vague ideas how they should be like, he can do the rest. You give up some control, but might end up with a more colorful world.
And ask him what he really enjoyed playing in the past.
I don't like animal races (Tengu, Kitsune, Grippli, etc).
It might become better as you integrate them into your setting.
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I would be very careful towards displaying bigotry towards players who take animal races. As unless the animal race has a history of not being liked by others. Or simply a evil race. It comes across as the DM going out of his way to punish a player.
Unless your running a homebrew campaign and such creatures are targeting for racism and bigotry. It really should not be happening that much imo. Golarion is world that has many different species that interact with each other. Their should be bigotry yes. Not "it's a tengu it's different kill it, kill it now !" around every corner. Espcially with Ogres, Giants and a whole lot of other more inhuman and evil looking creatures.
You end up getting the stupidity about mutants from Marvel comics. The human looking mutant gets singled out for torture and death because their a mutant and different. Yet the eight or is it ten foot tall talking orange rock looking Thing. Gets a free pass on racism because you know he got his powers from space radiation. Their so man non- mutant human villains more psychotic and sociopathic in the Marvel Universe. Yet mutants get the short end of the stick.
On the other end. I once had a fellow player want to play a DRow in a Forgotten Realms campaign. He wanted to be the next Drizzt. He was warned by both the DM and players that even with Drizzt, even with hin doing good deeds that he would face racism. The player seemed okay with it. Then eventually left the game because he accused the DM of being racist. Apparently beign racist to Drow is being racist to black men who knew.
A final warning if I allowed you to take something that I disliked as a DM without too much complaint. While want to take something different and you look like your going to vomit. Then guess what next game your probably not going to have me being as lenient.
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Depends on the world. If it's a world where you have no to little contact with demons, Devils, and other outsiders than yes a Bird man would stand out. If your using Golarion where the extraordinary is common and Outsiders uncommon. A bird man might get some bigotry. A raised eyebrow or two. But if he is with a group that has a mix of core races. Then I can't see the automatic racism happening. Remember your playing a fantasy rpg world. Not the real world.
Considering the reputation Orcs have in most settings. If your allowing a Half-Orc with little to no racism a bird man is not going to be bothered by most people IMO.
@Silvercatmoonpaw pretty much.
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I prefer a very anthropocentric (humanocentric? Homocentric?) world, with the core races. And if it were entirely up to me it'd be Humans only, but I have to allow some leeway. Though no one has ever played one, I'd let Tieflings in and maybe Dhampir. I also have a couple of homebrew races, but they are human offshoots so they don't really clash with my homebrew view of the setting.
What I hate is when a player insists about playing a beastly race, I warn him/her that the character would be singled out and subjected to bigotry. And they say ok. And then they get angry when they get singled out and subjected to bigotry.I know exactly how you feel. But like I'd said earlier, this guy changes characters so often your head will spin. He emailed me earlier to tell me that he'd rolled up the Tengu then decided to scrap it in favor of a Dwarven Inquisitor after we'd come up with a good backstory and everything! AAAGGGHHH!!!!
Maybe the PC can be a dwarf that channels a tengu? (possible 2014 movie spoilers)
I don't get the movie reference. But then again I don't watch a lot of movies.
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To be fair Hama, I do get your point. Some of the more exotic looking races like the plant hybrids would be victims of racism. Imagine walking into town with a pc Strix. Hell even a human Sorceter with the Aberrant bloodline at later levels would scare the locals. The Tengu st least in the art have more of a noble bearing IMO.
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I'm kinda wondering what type of racism are we talking about here though?
I mean, like with orcs stereotype is that they are barbarians, with kobolds is that they are pests, hobgoblins that they are slavers, etc types of "Kill at sight" stuff. In setting where beastly races are a thing, they should have something more specific going for them than "They don't look human so kill them", it should be something like.. Well, perhaps animal stereotypes, maybe something specific to setting. Setting neutral books already give tengus "Immigrants who live in slums and are thieves" stereotype :P
There's a difference between condescending bigotry born of racism and the outright genocide angle that some of the more extreme brands of racist have. I should know, I'm Chaotic Evil after all.
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In a world where orcs are typical opponents, half-orcs not being on the receiving end of any kind of racist behavior would break immersion.
To be fair some of us who wouldn't have anti-animal-people bigots also wouldn't use orcs as "typical" opponents.
What does "to be fair" mean in this context?
If orcs aren't typical opponents in your world, then what I posted wouldn't apply. I had hoped I made that clear by prefacing the "half-orcs would face racism" thought with the "when orcs are typical opponents" thought.
It's very difficult to tell the difference between that meaning "Only in this context" and "This is the way things are supposed to be". At least, for me it is.
Thank you for clarifying.
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What I find annoying is when new players come to my table and get offended that my setting is a certain way.
Yes, Orcs are savage beasts, yes, most "weird" races are subject to outright racism by some, bigotry and, occasionally, violence, yes, my world is not a happy-go-lucky place, it is a very grey world, with a lot of social realism thrown in. And I'm VERY up front about it. I e-mail people my setting introductory file, I am always available to answer questions. And, still, people have the gall to get offended when their thiefling rogue, with very prominent horns and tail gets singled out. In a mostly humanocentric setting.
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What I find annoying is when new players come to my table and get offended that my setting is a certain way.
Yes, Orcs are savage beasts, yes, most "weird" races are subject to outright racism by some, bigotry and, occasionally, violence, yes, my world is not a happy-go-lucky place, it is a very grey world, with a lot of social realism thrown in. And I'm VERY up front about it. I e-mail people my setting introductory file, I am always available to answer questions. And, still, people have the gall to get offended when their thiefling rogue, with very prominent horns and tail gets singled out. In a mostly humanocentric setting.
This has been a problem going back as far as I can remember. I've created campaigns where every race had a different description than the stock description, including humans (selecting human required the selection of a nationality.)
Some players skip all of that, look at the stat modifiers and other mechanical implications, and make their choice.
I've also had players try to use the "my character isn't from around here/ is from a different world / has amnesia" to avoid having to read.
It really all comes down to getting the right kind of player for the right kind of campaign.
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As long as the DM gives players a heads up before the game begins. That certain races will face more bigotry than others. Which is unfortunately not always the case. Which leads to conflict at the table. At the very least the DM should at least give a reason for bigotry if it's not obvious. I was once in a game where a DM hated Drow and decided they would face bigotry simply because he hated them. If you dislike a race in a rpg that much why include them in your game in the first place imo.
Make them Raven People in the style of Kobold press instead of Eastern themed. Assuming your setting has a god of knowledge or something similar.
The Heirs of Hugin and Mugin. Scions of the Secrets unspoken.
That sort of thing. It'll be a decent compromise.
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Well, since he gave up on the character before ever even playing it (He does this ALL THE TIME) in favor of a a Dwarf inquisitor it's no longer an issue. We'd worked out a backstory he really liked and worked well with my setting, then changed his mind. The wizard he's currently playing in my game (and he only gets to play once a month or less because of the long drive he has) is the third character he's played in a year.
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Sounds like a perfect opportunity to insert a Tengu NPC for the party, yes? ;)
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Maybe a poorly worded wish? (There's a joke here, but I can't use it in good taste)Now I really wanna hear this.
If I were to guess, my first thought is a guy - possibly after an embarrassing amorous encounter - wished that he had a big, black ..... bird.