Skald Build Help


Advice


Hey folks.

I was tinkering around with a Skald setup since I may be joining a Reign of Winter group soon. They're level 10 and I need to build appropriate to that. The main reason I went Skald is because I wanted to play a heavy metal bard years ago in 3.5, plus recently I was listening to Led Zepplin's Immigrant Song. So yeah, here's what I've been doing and I have to say that maybe I should stop building characters after midnight while drinking.

Name: Working on it but something like Hrodulf Wartongue but that sounds too familiar so people can help brainstorm that if they like.

Race: Human

25 Point buy
Str 14 (+2 human, +1 level 4, +1 level 8)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 11
Cha 15

Feats:
Improved Initiative
Skald's Vigour
Arcane Strike
Lingering Song
Extra rage power Superstition
Extra rage power Spell Sunder

Class rage powers:

Lesser beast totem
beast totem
witch hunter

Versatile performance:
Oratory
Percussion

Skills:

1 in each knowledge
Perform oratory 10
Perform Percussion 10 (Banging on a shield to intimidate)
Perception 10
Spellcraft 10
Use Magic Device 10

Spells:
Haven't decided but I plan on using the human favored class option each level.

I realized that extra rage power feats don't apply to inspire rage, so those have to be changed. Anything else that needs to be changed, I want to read your two cents on it. I want to make this guy work and not just be a back of the line buffer. I am having trouble with my spells because I always end up seeing them as "Target's enemy. Saving throw. They're totally gonna beat that late game. I hate wasted slots. Next."

I want a guy that can hit and put out damage pretty reliably, keep the party strong with the inspired rage, and wont drop dead if he gets hit but I am willing to listen to whatever. I generally want to avoid level dipping and prefer to go full Skald though.

Also, I am considering Leadership and wondering if that means I can actually bring followers with me as a barbarian raiding party or something, or is it just the cohort? Not sure, it's late and I am kinda drunk on the Kraken.

Liberty's Edge

You do not have Power Attack. This is a mistake on almost any melee character with sufficient Str for it. Arcane Strike isn't bad, but it's not nearly as good as Power Attack. This is particularly true if wielding a two-handed weapon, which you probably should (though weapon and shield isn't terrible or anything, just not as good). I mean, your AC will be pretty solid just due to Beast Totem and you've got Mirror Image as well.

Lingering Performance isn't all that useful to you, I wouldn't recommend taking it, personally. I mean, there's Saving Finale, but that's something you reactivate your Song next round because of, not take a whole Feat, IMO (especially since Skald's Vigor won't apply while it's lingering).

For mental stats, I'd drop Wis to 8 (you can afford it due to high Will Save, Raging song's bonus, and Versatile Performance) and get Cha to 16. -1 Will Save and Perception (which is basically all Wis gives you) aren't worth as much as +1 round of rage and +1 to all Cha skills (and getting to put yet more level-up[ points into Str).

Unless planning on using blasting spells (and your whole build seems to indicate you aren't...plus Skalds being bad blasters anyway), you should take the Fated Champion Archetype. If not using blasts, it just causes you to lose Well Versed for +1/2 level on Initiative, and Dirge of Doom for the ability to make yourself immune to fear (and give your allies a +5 against it) whenever you have Raging Song going. It's basically a straight upgrade, and pretty cool thematically too.

For skills, I'd put a rank in Stealth at some point, not that that'll make you great, but with, say, Invisibility Sphere it'll keep you from being the weak link. Depending on party makeup, maxing a Knowledge skill might also be more valuable than Spellcraft (it depends on if they have any Int casters and how many casters with maxed Spellcraft there are...and how many Knowlege skills are well covered).

As for spells, primarily go buffs and utility, not attack spells. Then buff and whack people with a weapon. Think of yourself as a warrior who spends a turn at the start of combat buffing more than a combat caster. It's pretty simple. Some recommendations:

1st: Alarm, Comprehend Languages, Cure Light Wounds, Feather Fall, Feather Step, Moment of Greatness, Saving Finale, Share Language (trust me, this and spells like it are a super good idea in this campaign), Undetectable Alignment (if you want),

2nd: Acute Senses, Bladed Dash, Glitterdust (reveals invisible foes even if they make the save), Heroism (worse than and redundant with Good Hope, but lasts longer), Invisibility, Mirror Image (TAKE THIS), Communal Share Language, Silence, Tongues, Whispering Wind,

3rd: Blink, Dispel Magic, Glibness (not as good since you lack Bluff, still might be handy), Flexible Fury (TAKE THIS...you can use it for Pounce, if you want), Mass Feather Step, Good Hope (TAKE THIS), Haste (TAKE THIS), Invisibility Sphere, Remove Curse, Communal Tongues,

4th: Break Enchantment, Dance of 100 Cuts, Dimension Door, Echolocation, Greater Invisibility, Neutralize Poison,

Grand Lodge

I'm in the process of building a Skald as well! He's seeking to form the greatest band in the world to liberate people with his music.

I have a few questions for you:

First, are you wanting to fight primarily with a two-handed weapon or a sword and shield? If the former, I would opt for Power Attack over Arcane Strike. If the latter, I would lean towards Arcane Strike and then Riving Strike to put even more pressure on enemies and provide a nice debuff for your spellcasters to take advantage of. I'm starting out with a two-handed weapon and will see if I can survive. If I switch to shield, I'll use a buckler so I can still cast and hold a weapon.

Second, are you planning on giving your party Greater Beast Totem through your raging song? Looks like you are making the choice of giving your party claws, natural armor, and the pounce ability over saves against spells, extra damage against casters, and melee abilities to dispel magic. Either are potent, but I would go the first route if you have more melee types and the second route if you have more spellcasters.

Third, are you set on being human? If so, that's great. If not and you can pick up a cohort, then I would race to the feat Amplified Rage.

I'll add that a cheaper form of Lingering Performance exists in the trait Community-Minded. May not fit your background, but it looks super helpful. I'm also not sold on Improved Initiative in this build. Going first is wonderful, but isn't a must for this build. Perhaps your cleric can go first, cast a buff, and then accept your song. If you want a boost to initiative, I would second the suggestion of Fated Champion.

Keep us posted how your build works out and for those about to rock, we salute you!


I think, and I am still trying to sleep right now and can't and a bit drunk, the party has a two weapon ranger, a winter witch, a rogue that likes smoke bombs, an inquisitor, and a sorcerer. Oh and the ranger has a winter wolf cohort cause the GM has a thing where if you take leadership, he gives you an NPC from the written adventure if it can kinda make sense for reasons I do not understand.

For two handed weapon, weapon and shield, or two weapons, I am not sure. I was thinking a buckler and something for ac but I can also see use in a two handed weapon like a greatsword or scythe or something. There is no cleric, unless the GM has an NPC one over there. In the past, we tend to just get wands to heal as whenever someone plays a cleric, the party forces them into the role of healbot or buffbot. Nobody wants to be the guy that fixes your booboos and owies so I was gonna take greater skald's vigour to give everyone fast healing.

I was thinking human because of vikings and stuff. Not the fighter archetype viking, as I think it is kinda dumb and barbarians filled that position just fine, but actual vikings.

Oh and should I load up a playlist of iron maiden or zepplin or what? I am more of a Slayer guy but the lighter metal can be awesome and stuff especially with all the viking stuff.

And dude for your first level spell list, what about grease? Isn't that kind of a staple spell? I am also working on cantrips but in an argument with someone about whether or not Ghost Sounds can make the sound of instruments playing a basic song. No lyrics, just instrumentals.

Liberty's Edge

Jaçinto wrote:
And dude for your first level spell list, what about grease? Isn't that kind of a staple spell? I am also working on cantrips but in an argument with someone about whether or not Ghost Sounds can make the sound of instruments playing a basic song. No lyrics, just instrumentals.

Grease is lovely, and if you were starting at level 1 I'd recommend it. But you're right about Save DCs since you aren't focusing on those. At 10th level, almost nothing is gonna reliably fail a 16, which is the best you can muster on a level 1 spell. It's maybe still worth it for terrain control, but only maybe (it takes a standard action to do, after all).

As for cantrips, yeah, I think Ghost Sound can manage instrumentals.

EDIT: Oh, and you can have Superstition + the Beast Totem line (at 12th, when you can have Greater Beast Totem at all). That seems like a good setup to give people. Witch Hunter and Spell Sunder are shiny, but bonus AC and Pounce are shinier, IMO.

Grand Lodge

I have a Suggestion for a Build.

Skald 8/Dragon Disciple 2 (Shooting for 4 Levels here, 8 if you end up loving the Idea of becoming a dragon as a SLA and gaining lots of Inherent Bonuses...Never more than 8 Levels )

What you gain from 4-8 Levels of Dragon Disciple:
+4 to Str (Your melee just got so much better)
Natural Armor Increase (Ex): +3 (to be exact)
Resist Energy 5: (Your Choice. Must match Breath weapon)
Claws
Bite attack
Breath Weapon (Your Choice...Fire seems good tho for this Campaign)
4 levels of D12 Hit Dice.
Bonus Feat: 1 for 4 Levels

What you loose out of:
-1 CL
Gaining/advancing Skald Abilities for 4 Levels (But you can still take Extra Rage Powers. And after 4 Levels you can come back to Skald to Keep going.)

I recommend a Reach weapon. And going off some of your Choices here is the Build I recommend:

Race: Human

Trait: Transmuter- Cat's Grace (recovers the -1 CL for your Transmutations AND allows you to Extend a Cat's Grace on yourself.
Trait: Fate's Favored

25 Point buy
Str 14 (+2 human, +1 level 4, +1 level 8)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 11
Cha 15

Feats:
H: Improved Initiative
1: Skald's Vigor
3: Combat Reflexes
5: Flag Bearer
7: Extra rage power Superstition
9: Extra rage power Witch hunter
10: (Dragon Bloodline): Power Attack
11: Extra Rage Power: Spell Sunder
13:
15: Extra Rage Power: Greater Beast Totem

Class rage powers:

3: Lesser beast totem
6: Beast totem
7: Superstition
9: Witch hunter
11: Spell Sunder
13:
15: Greater Beast Totem
16: (if you get here IDK if the campaign ends at 15 or not)

Spells:
o: Sift, Message, Detect Magic, Read Magic,
1: Saving Finale, Vanish, Feather Fall
2: Cat's Grace, Heroism, Mirror Image
3: Haste, Cure Serious Wounds, Good Hope
4: D. Door, Freedom of Movement

Item Suggestions:
+1 Furious Adamantine Reach Weapon
+1 Mithral Armor
Ring of Protection +1
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (Enhancement to your +3 Natural armor..giving you +4)
Banner of the Ancient Kings

Raging Song wrote:
A raging song counts as the bard's bardic performance special ability for any effect that affects bardic performances.

Headband of Wisdom +2

Belt of Str +2 (or +4 if you can swing it)
Cloak of Resistance +2
Jingasa of the Fortunate Solider
Luck stone
Circlet of Persuasion
Dusty rose Prism + Wayfinder (+1 Insight Bonus AC, +2 to CMB and CMD...You plan to sunder)
Cracked Dusty Rose Prism (Cheap bump to Initiative that adds up with Luck stone, Cat's Grace, Improved Initiative.)
Wands of Moment of Greatness (Flagbearer Fun here), Longstrider, Feather Step, Enlarge Person or Longarm, Cure Light Wounds

Grand Lodge

You're going to want Perform(Sing)10 so that you can get Greater Skald's Vigor ASAP.

You can't share Witch Hunter because you can't share the Pre-Req, so you'd want to swap Superstitious and Witch Hunter if you're going that way. I'm not a big fan of sharing Superstitious, but maybe it will work since your group is consistent. Rage is already limiting enough, losing friendly spells makes it a harder sell.

If you're going Beast Totem, you might want to grab a Ring of Rat Fangs to get another natural attack and make Pounce worth it.

I'll second the spells above, and add Timely Inspiration and Gallant Inspiration. Because they're retroactive (if you have a good idea of DC/AC) they can easily be as good as standard actions when they prevent a miss.


25 Point buy
Str 15 (+2 human, +1 level 4, +1 level 8)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 11
Cha 14

This is the better distribution. Way better. CHA 15 is identical to 14, but higher STR will be relevant and a +1 to-hit / +1.5 damage half of your character levels.


Why do you suggest Banner of the Ancient Kings Fruian Thistlefoot? Just because it counts as bardic performance doesn't let you have inspire courage for the banner.

Grand Lodge

Markov Spiked Chain wrote:


You can't share Witch Hunter because you can't share the Pre-Req, so you'd want to swap Superstitious and Witch Hunter if you're going that way. I'm not a big fan of sharing Superstitious, but maybe it will work since your group is consistent. Rage is already limiting enough, losing friendly spells makes it a harder sell.

I totally missed/forgot that in my haste in replying. Taking that into consideration Perhaps a few changes:

Feats:
H: Improved Initiative
1: Skald's Vigor
3: Combat Reflexes
5: Flag Bearer
7: Extra Rage Power: Spell Sunder
9: Sunder (since your starting @ 10)
10: (Dragon Bloodline): Power Attack

11: Greater Skald's Vigor
13: Discordant Voice
15: Extra Rage Power: Greater Beast Totem

Class rage powers:

3: Lesser beast totem
6: Beast totem
7: Spell Sunder
13: Disruptive??? (This is kind of a Free spot to pick whats best for your group.)
15: Greater Beast Totem

Grand Lodge

Chess Pwn wrote:
Why do you suggest Banner of the Ancient Kings Fruian Thistlefoot? Just because it counts as bardic performance doesn't let you have inspire courage for the banner.
Because of the Raging Song benefiting from boosts that would effect bardic Performance. With the 4 level Dip into DD you would have the Inspired Rage go from +3 to +4. Which means the teams Will saves go up by the +1. At least that is my understanding of the tag line of
raging song wrote:
A raging song counts as the bard's bardic performance special ability for any effect that affects bardic performances.

If the AP goes into 16th level he would be Skald 12/DD 4 and could push Inspired rage to +5 (+6 str/con).

BUT there is a few other Benefits of the Banner:

As long as the longspear or pole to which the banner is attached is firmly wielded in two hands, its carrier gains a +4 circumstance bonus on Initiative checks. In addition, when so wielded, it grants the wielder and all allies within 30 feet a +2 resistance bonus on all saving throws against mind-affecting effects. ((If you wanna be budget...Banner+Heroism+Luckstone+Fate's Favored is +6 to your saves WITHOUT a cloak...then you could us the Shoulder lot for something else. Plus you still have your Rage Bonus to will saves...so your not doing bad at all.)) ((( Adding the Banner+ Imp. Imitative+ Cracked dusty Rose prism+cat's Grace+ Luckstone combo= +15 Initiative...going first is a thing.)))

If the banner’s carrier possesses the Flagbearer feat, the banner of the ancient kings doubles the morale bonuses granted by that feat. ((add in a Wand of Moment of Greatness and you have instant profit.))


The problem is that Banner boosts Inspire courage specifically, not Bardic Performances.

Grand Lodge

Chess Pwn wrote:
The problem is that Banner boosts Inspire courage specifically, not Bardic Performances.

Even if that is the case the other benefits I listed are totally worth the investment.


Fruian, why do you have greater beast totem taken as a feat and a class level rage power?

Dragon disciple is okay, but it takes away time that could be used giving my party the Pounce ability.

Guru, but a 19 strength is the same as an 18 strength so why do that?

Grand Lodge

Jaçinto wrote:

Fruian, why do you have greater beast totem taken as a feat and a class level rage power?

Dragon disciple is okay, but it takes away time that could be used giving my party the Pounce ability.

Guru, but a 19 strength is the same as an 18 strength so why do that?

Cause I list it as gaining it as a feat then it becomes part of your rage powers list. Cause you wouldn't get another rage power naturally till 16th.

Pounce is a great ability.

Quote:
two weapon ranger, a winter witch, a rogue that likes smoke bombs, an inquisitor, and a sorcerer.

The Ranger, His pet, the Rogue, and yourself will want the rage song. The inquisitor will sometimes want it and sometimes not depending on his build. The Witch and Sorcerer should NEVER be using the ability.

The decision to Dip DD is up to you. Do you want to boost your own combat prowess or focus more on boosting the other 3 maybe 4 characters who will then outshine you cause most people don't give credit where it is truly due.

I myself would rather just wait 4 levels for Pounce and gain a lot more benefits for myself since the group will benefit from you just being there already.

Its really the difference between Hammer/Arm verses Arm roles. I prefer the Hammer/Arm cause at least I'm doing more than performing and throwing down buffs.

But the decision is really up to you if a single rage power has so much to be desired then just straight Skald. Or DO your first 10 in Skald to get Greater beast totem then dip DD later after you grab pounce ability. Cause you could have it out the gate that way. Cause remember when you create a character at 10 or Retrain you can instantly qualify for Level 10 feats/powers. Its like Magus who retrains at level 2 and grabs dervish dance with the retrain.


Rage powers from feats aren't granted to the group.

Personally I like lesser celestial totem myself. At level 10 and drop a path of glory you can regeneration the party for 11 hp a round and costs you only a single turn to set up. This means essentially if the fight lasts 4 rounds everyone heals 44 hp. It'll be up for 10 rounds.

That does mean no lesser beast.


Just looking over it and thinking. See, extra rage power is kinda bad for skald because I can't grant those powers to everyone else unless it comes from a class rage power. Dragon Disciple is interesting and kinda metal I guess but I am not sure how far in levels this AP will go, especially with one more person dividing the xp.

For Skald, the fated champion looks cool but I am not sure what to do with spell kenning, especially the version given. Since it is once per day, of course I want to optimize its usage.

I was planning on putting ranks into perform sing at level 11, unless someone thinks I should change the order. The reason was versatile performance overlap. Also, would things that give bonus to bluff and diplomacy work with versatile performance?


Jaçinto wrote:
Guru, but a 19 strength is the same as an 18 strength so why do that?

You get another stat raise at 12th level. They you'll be at base-STR 20.


Okay Guru, makes sense.


Thanks for the help everyone, but the DM has chosen not to continue to do Reign of Winter. We will instead be switching to Mummy's Mask and I will play something else. I will hold on to this character though for the future.

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