46 eyes of the ten Requiem for the red raven


GM Discussion

Grand Lodge

So far we started this mod and I'm looking around the boards to see how others have been doing with it and I'm not finding the answers I need.
So....
#1 can you run it with only 4 players?
I ask this because my 4 player party nearly got killed during the first combat. is there an adjustment for a party of 4?

#2 Do we apply chronicle sheets between mods?
we are running the entire story arc, as your supposed to and do you apply xp after each mod, and there by leveling to 13 after 2nd mod?

Sovereign Court *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Class Deck, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

You can run it with only 4 players. In fact, it was designed to played with only 4 players. (Which means that there's no 4-player adjustment. Part 1 is hard.)

Yes, you are supposed to apply chronicle sheets between scenarios, so you will level to 13 just in time for Part 3.

Dark Archive *****

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Class Deck, Maps, Modules Subscriber
Heinrich Lichtenshnitz wrote:

So far we started this mod and I'm looking around the boards to see how others have been doing with it and I'm not finding the answers I need.

So....
#1 can you run it with only 4 players?
I ask this because my 4 player party nearly got killed during the first combat. is there an adjustment for a party of 4?

#2 Do we apply chronicle sheets between mods?
we are running the entire story arc, as your supposed to and do you apply xp after each mod, and there by leveling to 13 after 2nd mod?

In very real terms, even basic combats should feel like rocket tag when written for APL 13.

The game is not the same at Tier 12 and Tier 13 as it is at tier 3-4.

*****

Heinrich Lichtenshnitz wrote:
I ask this because my 4 player party nearly got killed during the first combat.

It is my understanding that EotT was written to be extra deadly because when it was written, there was no high-level play. So if your characters retired because they were dead or retired because they finished EotT, it didn't really matter.

But the continued publishing of more and more content and character options has apparently made it less deadly than it was when it first came out.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Agent, New York—Manhattan aka Natertot

Heinrich Lichtenshnitz wrote:

So far we started this mod and I'm looking around the boards to see how others have been doing with it and I'm not finding the answers I need.

So....
#1 can you run it with only 4 players?
I ask this because my 4 player party nearly got killed during the first combat. is there an adjustment for a party of 4?

#2 Do we apply chronicle sheets between mods?
we are running the entire story arc, as your supposed to and do you apply xp after each mod, and there by leveling to 13 after 2nd mod?

Your players need to start at exactly 12 level(33 xp)to play, and once they start they need to be commit to the whole story arc.

*****

TheFlyingPhoton wrote:
Heinrich Lichtenshnitz wrote:
I ask this because my 4 player party nearly got killed during the first combat.

It is my understanding that EotT was written to be extra deadly because when it was written, there was no high-level play. So if your characters retired because they were dead or retired because they finished EotT, it didn't really matter.

But the continued publishing of more and more content and character options has apparently made it less deadly than it was when it first came out.

Having just recently run part 1 for a Magus, Druid, Paladin and Oracle I can say that Part 1 remains pretty damn challenging. What I suspect is happening more is that people are running it with the current norm of 6 players when it was written for 4.

Sovereign Court *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Card Game, Class Deck, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, +2 players will bring down the challenge level a bunch.

Also, I tend to make it harder just from experience, seeing as I've ran Part 1 6 times now...

***** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

James McTeague wrote:

Yeah, +2 players will bring down the challenge level a bunch.

Also, I tend to make it harder just from experience, seeing as I've ran Part 1 6 times now...

Or nearly doubling the group's size with familiars, animal companions and eidolons.

Silver Crusade *****

When I played Eyes it was with my Rogue, a Paladin of Ab'dar, an Aldori Swordlord fighter, and a Cavalier. It was plenty challenging, especially with no full casters which hurt us pretty bad in part one. But, it was one of the best experiences I've had in PFS.

Sovereign Court ***

Sadly, my Eyes of the Ten experience was actually one of my worst in PFS.

The GM wasn't a native english speaker and struggled to convey the story, even when boxed text was provided. He insisted on attempting to paraphrase the text, and did so very poorly. It was obvious that, at least for some encounters, he was reading for the first time during the session. He egregiously changed combat encounters and story elements (yes I read the scenarios after completing them, I was shocked at how much was changed), and then turned around and hand-waved some fights as soon as the tough creatures were dead, claiming that what remained wasn't worth playing through.

I'm still rather angry about it, if you couldn't tell. I will say that I rewrote this a few times to make certain I was being objective rather than letting emotion color my perception. It really was that bad.

How do I turn this bunch of complaints into a positive? Let my story be an object lesson. Your players are expecting a fabulous experience. This is the pinnacle of their PFS careers. Please, please, please devote the time and effort it takes to make it a memorable and enjoyable experience, even if it means delaying a session so you can prepare better. They'll thank you and the satisfaction you get will be so much more than just the GM chronicles you'll receive at the end.

Liberty's Edge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, this is a series you definitely don't want to run cold.

Liberty's Edge *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

What I did to prep this both times I GM'd it, was I essentially did a full audit of the characters. Not to make sure they were correct or to catch the players at anything, but rather to figure out what the characters were capable of so that the enemy could be prepared. There is reasons they might have some insight into what the characters are capable of.

I also had the initial invitation printed out for each player and put in an envelope which I actually sealed with a real wax seal.

*****

That's sad, Talon. Eyes of the Ten is supposed to be a highlight of a *player's* PFS career as well as the character's career. When we first ran it, the GMs all pulled out their A-game in terms of prep. We had 3D terrain for all the big fights, hand-lettered faction missions with wax seals (copped from Andy Christian's suggestion), and all sorts of stuff. I believe our first run-through was the only time I've seen an entire Paizo flip mat (both sides!) built in 3D.

You'll find it in any PFS game occasionally - the GM is unprepared, and/or only running so they can get the Chronicle boon.

Make sure when a new "retirement arc" comes out, you wait to play it with a GM who will do it justice.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Captain, Missouri—St. Louis aka Joshua N Hancock

Has Beliac been effectively eliminated from this scenario? Without the Cheliax faction mission, it is extremely unlikely for the spectres to ever come out.

Sovereign Court ***** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32 aka Netopalis

Joshua Hancock wrote:
Has Beliac been effectively eliminated from this scenario? Without the Cheliax faction mission, it is extremely unlikely for the spectres to ever come out.

No, Dark Archive players get the Chelish mission.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

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Andrew Shumate wrote:
Joshua Hancock wrote:
Has Beliac been effectively eliminated from this scenario? Without the Cheliax faction mission, it is extremely unlikely for the spectres to ever come out.
No, Dark Archive players get the Chelish mission.

I highly recommend passing out the faction missions for all four parts. Not only do you get some really fun role-playing opportunities (Beliac, Andorans at the start of Part 3, etc.) but it also sets up the payoff in Part 4 much better.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Captain, Missouri—St. Louis aka Joshua N Hancock

Andrew Shumate wrote:
Joshua Hancock wrote:
Has Beliac been effectively eliminated from this scenario? Without the Cheliax faction mission, it is extremely unlikely for the spectres to ever come out.
No, Dark Archive players get the Chelish mission.

Did someone from Paizo say this at some point? It doesn't seem to be the case RAW.

Grand Lodge ****

Heinrich Lichtenshnitz wrote:

#2 Do we apply chronicle sheets between mods?

we are running the entire story arc, as your supposed to and do you apply xp after each mod, and there by leveling to 13 after 2nd mod?

Yes, exactly right (as you're aware, Part 1 grants 2 xp).

Sovereign Court ***** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32 aka Netopalis

Joshua Hancock wrote:
Andrew Shumate wrote:
Joshua Hancock wrote:
Has Beliac been effectively eliminated from this scenario? Without the Cheliax faction mission, it is extremely unlikely for the spectres to ever come out.
No, Dark Archive players get the Chelish mission.
Did someone from Paizo say this at some point? It doesn't seem to be the case RAW.

It is the case per RAW. See: Secondary Success Conditions page 1 and the notes on #2-22.

Liberty's Edge ***** Venture-Captain, Missouri—St. Louis aka Joshua N Hancock

Andrew Shumate wrote:
Joshua Hancock wrote:
Andrew Shumate wrote:
Joshua Hancock wrote:
Has Beliac been effectively eliminated from this scenario? Without the Cheliax faction mission, it is extremely unlikely for the spectres to ever come out.
No, Dark Archive players get the Chelish mission.
Did someone from Paizo say this at some point? It doesn't seem to be the case RAW.
It is the case per RAW. See: Secondary Success Conditions page 1 and the notes on #2-22.

I don't see how 2-22 is relevant to 1-46.

#46: Eyes of the Ten, Part 1: Requiem for the Red Raven wrote:

Primary: The PCs complete the adventure.

Secondary (individual): The PC earns 4 or more Campaign Points.

It seems the only RAW way to have the faction missions is for the players to opt for them.

Secondary Success Conditions lines 3-8 wrote:
With few exceptions, these faction missions are no longer tied to earning Prestige Points, but the players may opt to receive and perform these missions for Season 0–4 scenarios for no special benefit. In those few cases where the scenario still uses the faction missions, treat members of the Grand Lodge faction as though they were members of the Osirion faction, treat members of the Sczarni faction as though they were members of the Taldor faction, and treat members of the Silver Crusade faction as though they were members of the Andoran faction.

I'm going to strongly encourage my players to do the faction missions. I just wanted to protect myself from any wayward rules lawyers. I think the final encounter is greatly diminished without the Cheliax faction mission. This will be a moot point if there are no Dark Archive players at my table, however.

Dark Archive *****

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think part of earning Campaign Points is tied to completing the Faction Missions, in which case

Secondary Success Conditions lines 3-8 wrote:
With few exceptions, these faction missions are no longer tied to earning Prestige Points, but the players may opt to receive and perform these missions for Season 0–4 scenarios for no special benefit. In those few cases where the scenario still uses the faction missions, treat members of the Grand Lodge faction as though they were members of the Osirion faction, treat members of the Sczarni faction as though they were members of the Taldor faction, and treat members of the Silver Crusade faction as though they were members of the Andoran faction.

and from there, because of what happened at the end of the Cheliax mission in 5-99 it is safe to assume that Dark Archive would get the Cheliax mission, much the same way Exchange would revert to Qadira, Liberty's Edge to Andoran, etc.

I may be wrong, however, because I don't have the scenario in front of me, and if the faction missions aren't tied to the campaign points, my whole post is moot.

Silver Crusade ***** ⦵⦵⦵ RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 aka GreySector

IIRC they are only tied to campaign points in part 4.

Shadow Lodge ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

Keirine, Human Rogue wrote:

I think part of earning Campaign Points is tied to completing the Faction Missions, in which case

Secondary Success Conditions lines 3-8 wrote:
With few exceptions, these faction missions are no longer tied to earning Prestige Points, but the players may opt to receive and perform these missions for Season 0–4 scenarios for no special benefit. In those few cases where the scenario still uses the faction missions, treat members of the Grand Lodge faction as though they were members of the Osirion faction, treat members of the Sczarni faction as though they were members of the Taldor faction, and treat members of the Silver Crusade faction as though they were members of the Andoran faction.

and from there, because of what happened at the end of the Cheliax mission in 5-99 it is safe to assume that Dark Archive would get the Cheliax mission, much the same way Exchange would revert to Qadira, Liberty's Edge to Andoran, etc.

I may be wrong, however, because I don't have the scenario in front of me, and if the faction missions aren't tied to the campaign points, my whole post is moot.

But Exchange doesn't necesarily revert to Qadira. Exchange faction came from Sczarni, so it should revert to Taldor. Pretty much depends on which leader the character supports more.

***** ⦵⦵⦵

Exchange is Qadiria. Down to the same faction head.

Shadow Lodge ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

Well, tomorrow's the big day. Going to do Woodsedge and the Maze this session, and save Raven's Roost for another day. I'm going to try and get to my legos to make 3d terrain for it.

I've got a 7 player party with 3 pets, so it should be pretty easy for them, but hopefully I can still give them a good time.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

I'd split that group down. It's going to be a cakewalk with 10 player controlled characters.

Shadow Lodge ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
I'd split that group down. It's going to be a cakewalk with 10 player controlled characters.

I'm well aware, and I'd love to split it up. Unfortunately it's not an option right now in my area.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Blarg. Pity I can't be there to replay for no credit.

Liberty's Edge *** Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha

Playing with so many character sort of cheapens it for those of who ran it with four. And died (saved by First Aid Gloves).

In my area, the GMs who could run it refuses to do more than four characters.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

James Anderson wrote:
Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
I'd split that group down. It's going to be a cakewalk with 10 player controlled characters.
I'm well aware, and I'd love to split it up. Unfortunately it's not an option right now in my area.

If I wasn't running a convention starting tomorrow I'd say "hang on, let me jump on a plane!"

STILL dying to GM Eyes. I love the story so much.

Shadow Lodge ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

I found an 8th. So, dividing them up. I wasn't planning to get through it in one night anyways, so I'll call game after the maze / before Raven's roost. One group starts at 2pm, I think I can start the other about 7pm.

Shadow Lodge ***** ⦵⦵ Venture-Lieutenant, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka thistledown

3.5 hours each party and they're barely through act 3. Fwoo! Both parties fought the iron golem. (In fact, one wound up entirely GL or SS)

And the 8th PC died in the big fight. I'm debating if there's a feasible amount of time between fighting Cale and going into the hedge to get a raise dead. Eliza's a wizard (no help) and Osprey's a Druid (Maybe Reincarnate) so neither of them can do it - they'd have to get someone from town. (The town has >14,000 people, so there's someone)

Other than chasing down a trail, they don't know they're on a clock, so I don't really want to penalize them for getting their member back. But Aric does have a bit of a deadline.

I think I'll just let them get the raise without any problems.

The Exchange ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Texas—Dallas & Ft. Worth aka Belafon

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James Anderson wrote:
I think I'll just let them get the raise without any problems.

I know it's GM discussion but I'm still going to spoiler:

Spoiler:
I think you're right to do so. Going to town and finding a priest won't take more than a couple of extra hours. As long as they don't take a night's rest they can "catch up" in time.

Don't forget all the effects of raise dead. In addition to the two negative levels (only one of which can be removed by restoration per week unless they spring for greater restoration), if the dead character is a spellcaster he or she is likely to lose a lot of spells. And of course needs a fairly large amount of HP restored.

If they decide to rest after that, it's their choice. Let the players argue it out and decide on their own.

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