paizo.com Recent Posts in Plot agency: for the martial characterpaizo.com Recent Posts in Plot agency: for the martial character2016-02-11T22:37:22Z2016-02-11T22:37:22ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterGM 1990https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1862016-02-11T02:11:02Z2016-02-11T02:11:02Z<p>I was also just thinking - Poor @werewolf435</p>
<p>we kind of derailed his initial request....and apparently got it tossed into another thread bank. Sorry werewolf.</p>
<p>But....what if the work we've done here actually leads to an end of the martials don't have enough narrative power/agency/etc debate; and he would have started the discussion? He could put that on his Paizo resume.</p>I was also just thinking - Poor @werewolf435
we kind of derailed his initial request....and apparently got it tossed into another thread bank. Sorry werewolf.
But....what if the work we've done here actually leads to an end of the martials don't have enough narrative power/agency/etc debate; and he would have started the discussion? He could put that on his Paizo resume.GM 19902016-02-11T02:11:02ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterGM 1990https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1852016-02-11T02:03:51Z2016-02-11T02:03:51Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Insain Dragoon wrote:</div><blockquote> I generally try to be empathetic in these discussions, but honestly most people who engage in these discussions are so invested in protecting their position that they can't even see anything else. </blockquote><p>True. We're only human. But hey..we get a bonus feat and skill rank/level....so we got that going for us. Which is nice.Insain Dragoon wrote:I generally try to be empathetic in these discussions, but honestly most people who engage in these discussions are so invested in protecting their position that they can't even see anything else.
True. We're only human. But hey..we get a bonus feat and skill rank/level....so we got that going for us. Which is nice.GM 19902016-02-11T02:03:51ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterTrogdarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1842016-02-11T01:59:51Z2016-02-11T01:59:51Z<p>lol, sorry, Empathic is the correct term even though they have added empathetic to the lexicon. Showing empathy is never pathetic.</p>lol, sorry, Empathic is the correct term even though they have added empathetic to the lexicon. Showing empathy is never pathetic.Trogdar2016-02-11T01:59:51ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterInsain Dragoon (alias of Andrew Boucher 88)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1832016-02-11T01:59:06Z2016-02-11T01:59:06Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Trogdar wrote:</div><blockquote><p> •Empathic</p>
<p>I really doubt your ever empathetic ID :) </blockquote><p>I think this is the word I wanted http://www.thefreedictionary.com/empatheticTrogdar wrote:*Empathic
I really doubt your ever empathetic ID :)
I think this is the word I wanted http://www.thefreedictionary.com/empatheticInsain Dragoon (alias of Andrew Boucher 88)2016-02-11T01:59:06ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterMilo v3https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1822016-02-11T01:51:59Z2016-02-11T01:51:59Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Trogdar wrote:</div><blockquote><p> •Empathic</p>
<p>I really doubt your ever empathetic ID :) </blockquote><p>And now I'm confused....Trogdar wrote:*Empathic
I really doubt your ever empathetic ID :)
And now I'm confused....Milo v32016-02-11T01:51:59ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterGM 1990https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1812016-02-11T01:51:57Z2016-02-11T01:51:57Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Trogdar wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I usually prefer things other than bonuses. Skill bonuses can potentially run into dimishing returns due to how skills natively function. </p>
<p>I think it would be nice to see some class abilities on non casters that just function in a given circumstance rather than something akin to having a plus twenty on a skill role you never need to get above fifteen.</p>
<p>Fighters could cause graduating fear effects to npc's below a certain cr threshold for example. Theres no save, but the fighter could choose to supress the effect for a number of people equal to twice his level. Hes so lethal that his presence alone is enough to cow people. Thats the kind of agency that casters tend to have. also, it has interesting interactions like making crowds part before him in crowded cities, which is awesome. </blockquote><p>That's kind of something along the lines I was contemplating. When I was helping my son make his fighter, we looked at Dazzling Display - sounds cool, but -full round action- and you might fail to do anything. Yes...all "who see you" in 30' can be affected, but I think I'd rather have a guarantee of it affecting 1 if possible. Maybe a spin off on that? it fits the theme of a bad man with a weapon too.
<p>It would be useful if the party could "convince" someone to do something w/o risking getting tossed in jail. Diplomacy rolls only go so far.</p>
<p>I know the magic answer is charm/dominate/etc, but in some campaign settings that's not going to be acceptable to the group dynamics or probably the person you did it to.</p>Trogdar wrote:I usually prefer things other than bonuses. Skill bonuses can potentially run into dimishing returns due to how skills natively function.
I think it would be nice to see some class abilities on non casters that just function in a given circumstance rather than something akin to having a plus twenty on a skill role you never need to get above fifteen.
Fighters could cause graduating fear effects to npc's below a certain cr threshold for example. Theres no save, but the fighter...GM 19902016-02-11T01:51:57ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterTrogdarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1802016-02-11T01:48:52Z2016-02-11T01:48:52Z<p>•Empathic</p>
<p>I really doubt your ever empathetic ID :)</p>*Empathic
I really doubt your ever empathetic ID :)Trogdar2016-02-11T01:48:52ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterInsain Dragoon (alias of Andrew Boucher 88)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1792016-02-11T01:47:01Z2016-02-11T01:47:01Z<p>I generally try to be empathetic in these discussions, but honestly most people who engage in these discussions are so invested in protecting their position that they can't even see anything else.</p>I generally try to be empathetic in these discussions, but honestly most people who engage in these discussions are so invested in protecting their position that they can't even see anything else.Insain Dragoon (alias of Andrew Boucher 88)2016-02-11T01:47:01ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterTrogdarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1782016-02-11T01:45:52Z2016-02-11T01:45:52Z<p>Yeah, maybe dismissive is the wrong word. Its like asking for a napkin and getting an orange, you know what I mean?</p>Yeah, maybe dismissive is the wrong word. Its like asking for a napkin and getting an orange, you know what I mean?Trogdar2016-02-11T01:45:52ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterGM 1990https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1772016-02-11T01:45:33Z2016-02-11T01:41:36Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Trogdar wrote:</div><blockquote> Usually, at least in my experience, the people who talk about mechanics tend to want to look at things through that lense. That's why they tend to be dismissive of roleplay related solutions because they are not addressing what they are actually talking about. </blockquote><p>Its a little of what Insain and I got worked through. Not necessarily dismissive, because it might just be you're both playing the same game, same classes, (maybe even the same type of adventures) but due to different styles actually see different things at your game.
<p>Campaign 1: might be more mechanics focused. Even if you RP out a lot of things, at some point the PC has to pass a skill check or is doing a mechanic only they can do but requires a dice check. There might be a little more combat, again a little more mechanics focused. There are dice rolls and roleplaying interaction for everyone every session, but things tend to lean more heavily (not exclusively though) on resolving things with the dice.</p>
<p>Campaign 2: less mechanics focused. You roleplay out more things and maybe even just fewer "true" skill challenges. Players like to engage in story telling leaving a little less time for dice. Combats are still an integral part of the game. There are dice rolls and roleplaying interactions for everyone every session, but things tend to lean more heavily on player interaction and roleplaying (not exclusively though), than resolving things with the dice.</p>
<p>Those two groups aren't miles apart in playing style, but they are far enough apart that something in the mechanics may show up and be obvious to players in campaign 1, while maybe not showing up at all or at least not being noticed to the players in campaign 2. I think it could happen with the exact same class mix - but when you consider the more like scenario of both games having completely different class mixes (except each has a fighter), system experience, and personalities. Pretty easy to happen.</p>
<p>I think that's what leads to this topic being confusing, and normally spiraling quickly into flaming. Both people are reading what the other person says and thinking, "I play the same game, if that was a problem I'd have seen it!! You must be implying I'm a fool?" or "I play the same game, how can you not see this?? You must be implying I'm a fool?"</p>
<p>At least that's what I think I've been experiencing in these discussions up till yesterday.</p>Trogdar wrote:Usually, at least in my experience, the people who talk about mechanics tend to want to look at things through that lense. That's why they tend to be dismissive of roleplay related solutions because they are not addressing what they are actually talking about.
Its a little of what Insain and I got worked through. Not necessarily dismissive, because it might just be you're both playing the same game, same classes, (maybe even the same type of adventures) but due to different...GM 19902016-02-11T01:41:36ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterMilo v3https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1762016-02-11T01:40:24Z2016-02-11T01:40:24Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Trogdar wrote:</div><blockquote>The thing is, language is hard to decipher sometimes. People can be using the same words as you and mean different things entirely, just look at ID and GM1990. Whenever I read threads with the usual suspects, I often wonder if there are multiple conversations going on and no ones actually talking too each other, just at each other. </blockquote><p>As a usual suspect I do hope that I end up talking with rather than at more often than not. But yeah, talking at each other happens a lot.Trogdar wrote:The thing is, language is hard to decipher sometimes. People can be using the same words as you and mean different things entirely, just look at ID and GM1990. Whenever I read threads with the usual suspects, I often wonder if there are multiple conversations going on and no ones actually talking too each other, just at each other.
As a usual suspect I do hope that I end up talking with rather than at more often than not. But yeah, talking at each other happens a lot.Milo v32016-02-11T01:40:24ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterTrogdarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1752016-02-11T01:34:48Z2016-02-11T01:34:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Milo v3 wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Trogdar wrote:</div><blockquote> Usually, at least in my experience, the people who talk about mechanics tend to want to look at things through that lense. That's why they tend to be dismissive of roleplay related solutions because they are not addressing what they are actually talking about. </blockquote>I personally think the wording of "If the topic is about x, people tend to be dismissive of talk about y" in more accurate. Since I don't think "talk about mechanics tend to want to look at things through that lense" applies to most people I know who talk about mechanics. </blockquote><p>The thing is, language is hard to decipher sometimes. People can be using the same words as you and mean different things entirely, just look at ID and GM1990. Whenever I read threads with the usual suspects, I often wonder if there are multiple conversations going on and no ones actually talking too each other, just at each other.Milo v3 wrote:Trogdar wrote: Usually, at least in my experience, the people who talk about mechanics tend to want to look at things through that lense. That's why they tend to be dismissive of roleplay related solutions because they are not addressing what they are actually talking about.
I personally think the wording of "If the topic is about x, people tend to be dismissive of talk about y" in more accurate. Since I don't think "talk about mechanics tend to want to look at things through...Trogdar2016-02-11T01:34:48ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterTrogdarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1742016-02-11T01:30:26Z2016-02-11T01:30:26Z<p>I usually prefer things other than bonuses. Skill bonuses can potentially run into dimishing returns due to how skills natively function. </p>
<p>I think it would be nice to see some class abilities on non casters that just function in a given circumstance rather than something akin to having a plus twenty on a skill role you never need to get above fifteen.</p>
<p>Fighters could cause graduating fear effects to npc's below a certain cr threshold for example. Theres no save, but the fighter could choose to supress the effect for a number of people equal to twice his level. Hes so lethal that his presence alone is enough to cow people. Thats the kind of agency that casters tend to have. also, it has interesting interactions like making crowds part before him in crowded cities, which is awesome.</p>I usually prefer things other than bonuses. Skill bonuses can potentially run into dimishing returns due to how skills natively function.
I think it would be nice to see some class abilities on non casters that just function in a given circumstance rather than something akin to having a plus twenty on a skill role you never need to get above fifteen.
Fighters could cause graduating fear effects to npc's below a certain cr threshold for example. Theres no save, but the fighter could choose...Trogdar2016-02-11T01:30:26ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterGM 1990https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1732016-02-11T01:05:08Z2016-02-11T01:05:08Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Milo v3 wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><p>Its at the root class level the mechanics, and in particular those supernatural (not necessarily pure magic) things that fighters don't have but would make them more unique in or out of combat.
</p>
</blockquote>I do think it's important to note that the abilities to increase agency do not have to be supernatural, even simply like track, favoured enemy or the cavalier's minor non-combat abilities from their order can increase agency to a degree. </blockquote><p>Agreed. Supernatural wasn't the best word choice, as I was thinking more along the lines of what you described - maybe heroic is a better term - although still nebulous.
<p>I feel its important to have a class that doesn't use magic (innately), as its something that does make how they do what they do unique.</p>
<p>Yes, they'll use magic weapons armor and devices but you really only need those from mechanic standpoint since its part of the system progression difficulty. Like has been mentioned if your GM will give you auto bonus progression, you might be able to get by with just flavor texting that part.</p>
<p>So I think that gets down to what kind of out of combat mechanics could they get over time that nobody else gets (even if it just adds to something like some specific skill checks - but its a type of bonus that no other class gets?</p>
<p>And a similar periodic progression for in combat. Some kind of unique combat mechanics/tricks that only the fighter gets.</p>Milo v3 wrote:Quote:Its at the root class level the mechanics, and in particular those supernatural (not necessarily pure magic) things that fighters don't have but would make them more unique in or out of combat.
I do think it's important to note that the abilities to increase agency do not have to be supernatural, even simply like track, favoured enemy or the cavalier's minor non-combat abilities from their order can increase agency to a degree. Agreed. Supernatural wasn't the best word...GM 19902016-02-11T01:05:08ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterMilo v3https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1722016-02-11T00:57:46Z2016-02-11T00:57:46Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Trogdar wrote:</div><blockquote> Usually, at least in my experience, the people who talk about mechanics tend to want to look at things through that lense. That's why they tend to be dismissive of roleplay related solutions because they are not addressing what they are actually talking about. </blockquote><p>I personally think the wording of "If the topic is about x, people tend to be dismissive of talk about y" in more accurate. Since I don't think "talk about mechanics tend to want to look at things through that lense" applies to most people I know who talk about mechanics.Trogdar wrote:Usually, at least in my experience, the people who talk about mechanics tend to want to look at things through that lense. That's why they tend to be dismissive of roleplay related solutions because they are not addressing what they are actually talking about.
I personally think the wording of "If the topic is about x, people tend to be dismissive of talk about y" in more accurate. Since I don't think "talk about mechanics tend to want to look at things through that lense"...Milo v32016-02-11T00:57:46ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterTrogdarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1712016-02-11T00:50:42Z2016-02-11T00:50:42Z<p>Usually, at least in my experience, the people who talk about mechanics tend to want to look at things through that lense. That's why they tend to be dismissive of roleplay related solutions because they are not addressing what they are actually talking about.</p>Usually, at least in my experience, the people who talk about mechanics tend to want to look at things through that lense. That's why they tend to be dismissive of roleplay related solutions because they are not addressing what they are actually talking about.Trogdar2016-02-11T00:50:42ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterInsain Dragoon (alias of Andrew Boucher 88)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1702016-02-11T00:46:28Z2016-02-11T00:46:28Z<p>I think a lot of his to do with what sort of story is being told too.</p>
<p>If your story is medieval fantasy and more akin to Conan or Game of Thrones the character optimization level wouldn't be the same as a game where the end goal is to say, overthrow the gods of Olympus.</p>
<p>In my games it's not uncommon for players to shoot for that really high goal even if they will never reach that level. Some people are only happy if you shoot for that level. Some people think shooting for that level is the wrong way to play the game.</p>
<p>What we can agree on is that if you're aiming for that level of strength and agency, that most classes in the game wont cut it for you.</p>I think a lot of his to do with what sort of story is being told too.
If your story is medieval fantasy and more akin to Conan or Game of Thrones the character optimization level wouldn't be the same as a game where the end goal is to say, overthrow the gods of Olympus.
In my games it's not uncommon for players to shoot for that really high goal even if they will never reach that level. Some people are only happy if you shoot for that level. Some people think shooting for that level is the...Insain Dragoon (alias of Andrew Boucher 88)2016-02-11T00:46:28ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterMilo v3https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1692016-02-11T00:46:10Z2016-02-11T00:46:10Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><p>Its at the root class level the mechanics, and in particular those supernatural (not necessarily pure magic) things that fighters don't have but would make them more unique in or out of combat.
</p>
</blockquote><p>I do think it's important to note that the abilities to increase agency do not have to be supernatural, even simply like track, favoured enemy or the cavalier's minor non-combat abilities from their order can increase agency to a degree.Quote:Its at the root class level the mechanics, and in particular those supernatural (not necessarily pure magic) things that fighters don't have but would make them more unique in or out of combat.
I do think it's important to note that the abilities to increase agency do not have to be supernatural, even simply like track, favoured enemy or the cavalier's minor non-combat abilities from their order can increase agency to a degree.Milo v32016-02-11T00:46:10ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterGM 1990https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1682016-02-11T00:16:28Z2016-02-11T00:16:28Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Insain Dragoon wrote:</div><blockquote> I almost did a few times, but then I realized that you were experiencing genuine confusion. It's a lot harder to tell on these boards, but it was definitely there. I probably only noticed because of all the experience I have as a tutor. </blockquote><p>Tough on the web. That's why I caveated a couple times that I wasn't trying to as well. Of course...that doesn't always matter. If I had a dime for every time someone in the Army said, "No disrespect intended sir but....". Which most of the time really means, •I'm about to say something that can be taken in no other way but disrespectful.•
<p>I think the confusion point is right on, I was like "are we playing the same game??"</p>
<p>A big piece I took away is its almost (like 95%) impossible to discuss this without thinking "no participation/agency/etc?" what does that -player- do all night? So then there is a personal attachment aspect almost like "I have friends who play a fighter, or I play one....I'm participating in my sessions a lot. don't try to tell me I'm not because you're being foolish." That's not often going to lead to rational discussion - at least long enough to get anywhere.</p>
<p>So getting to the point of agreement that - the player is doing all kind of things and presumably having fun (or why keep playing?) is big.</p>
<p>Its at the root class level the mechanics, and in particular those supernatural (not necessarily pure magic) things that fighters don't have but would make them more unique in or out of combat.</p>
<p>As I've been thinking about it...to be honest we house ruled a few things early on that probably subconsciously show I wanted fighters to be able to do more cool things (frankly...they're one of the only classes that -are- just trying to do things with swords/axes...why not let them do it cool, its a historic aspect of the game) I give 4 skill slots, allow TWF to get to 0/0 pen with a 19 dex, and give all the combat maneuvers out by taking just 1 in that tree.</p>
<p>that being said it'll still drive me crazy when I read someone say "none/almost never/etc". I'm not sure they all mean what you mean :)...maybe they do, I'll at least have a better idea of what to ask them now.</p>Insain Dragoon wrote:I almost did a few times, but then I realized that you were experiencing genuine confusion. It's a lot harder to tell on these boards, but it was definitely there. I probably only noticed because of all the experience I have as a tutor.
Tough on the web. That's why I caveated a couple times that I wasn't trying to as well. Of course...that doesn't always matter. If I had a dime for every time someone in the Army said, "No disrespect intended sir but....". Which most of...GM 19902016-02-11T00:16:28ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterInsain Dragoon (alias of Andrew Boucher 88)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1672016-02-10T23:46:55Z2016-02-10T23:46:55Z<p>I almost did a few times, but then I realized that you were experiencing genuine confusion. It's a lot harder to tell on these boards, but it was definitely there. I probably only noticed because of all the experience I have as a tutor.</p>I almost did a few times, but then I realized that you were experiencing genuine confusion. It's a lot harder to tell on these boards, but it was definitely there. I probably only noticed because of all the experience I have as a tutor.Insain Dragoon (alias of Andrew Boucher 88)2016-02-10T23:46:55ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterGM 1990https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1662016-02-10T23:45:16Z2016-02-10T23:41:51Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Insain Dragoon wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I can't find the link to the C/MD thread database. I know this was added, but I've never seen the database.</p>
<p>Is there a section in it for "peaceably resolved"? </blockquote><p>Might not have occurred before, Jiggy will have to have a new section.
<p>I think more than that - I think usefully explored an enlightening to both sides.</p>
<p>I'm trying to work out what to put into a little cliff-notes on making the dialogue more useful for others. I think we uncovered some key misunderstandings and ways to more clearly demonstrate what each other means.</p>
<p>I'll do my part to be a peace maker on my end trying to lay it out where I can.</p>
<p>Probably the biggest thing I appreciated on your part was when I kept pressing for -what it was- you were using to label the fighter as having "none" you worked it out and dialogued. when the easier thing to do would have been to just move on, or go ballistic assuming I was just trying to antagonize you. Thanks for the patience and maturity.</p>Insain Dragoon wrote:I can't find the link to the C/MD thread database. I know this was added, but I've never seen the database.
Is there a section in it for "peaceably resolved"?
Might not have occurred before, Jiggy will have to have a new section. I think more than that - I think usefully explored an enlightening to both sides.
I'm trying to work out what to put into a little cliff-notes on making the dialogue more useful for others. I think we uncovered some key misunderstandings and...GM 19902016-02-10T23:41:51ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterKobold Catgirlhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1652016-06-20T08:09:48Z2016-02-10T23:26:10Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Insain Dragoon wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I can't find the link to the C/MD thread database. I know this was added, but I've never seen the database.</p>
<p>Is there a section in it for "peaceably resolved"? </blockquote><p><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1C2o97IRA92vSpNoN73JmXrnpFfnZsSiaMZTB0uhPK8A/edit#" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">There is no "peaceably resolved". There is locked, and there is waiting. Time shall pass and leaves shall fall and searches shall run through it all. A poster will come by here by chance and rekindle flames now scant. You think this over, course be run? It only sleeps. It's scarce begun.</a>
<p>Also, House Rules is not a "quarantine board". It's where this thread belongs. The only reason the House Rules section is seen as less significant is because it hosts fewer flamewars and pointless arguments, and therefore gets fewer viewers.</p>
<div class="messageboard-quotee">Insain Dragoon wrote:</div><blockquote>Also oftentimes less likely to be murdered in ambush situations.</blockquote><p>Sure, unless the ambush situation involves a lack of magic items, in which case most martials are screwed again.Insain Dragoon wrote:I can't find the link to the C/MD thread database. I know this was added, but I've never seen the database.
Is there a section in it for "peaceably resolved"?
There is no "peaceably resolved". There is locked, and there is waiting. Time shall pass and leaves shall fall and searches shall run through it all. A poster will come by here by chance and rekindle flames now scant. You think this over, course be run? It only sleeps. It's scarce begun. Also, House Rules is not a...Kobold Catgirl2016-02-10T23:26:10ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterGM 1990https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1642016-02-10T23:20:13Z2016-02-10T23:20:13Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Arbane the Terrible wrote:</div><blockquote><p> What things can be better done by mundane means than through magic?</p>
<p>Just about the only things I can think of are building long-term relationships and (possibly) architecture. </blockquote><p>For the most part, magic can top non-magical in most situations. Just like technology IRL, it provides a beyond human dimension. There are times when pure stealth or a disguise kit are best - typically to defeat a magical detecting situation.
<p>With magic being part of the system of fantasy RPGs going back to its roots, it changes aspects of the game. Magic treasure is way more cool in my opinion than just gold or free weapons in the loot. The ability over time to acquire and use magic items of all sorts is a foundational element of D&D/PF in my opinion. Mechanically of course, the system also assumes you eventually have more advantages than just your BAB or armor/shield.</p>
<p>That being said, as we've been working through the spells on another set of threads, most GMs have agreed that when certain spells that overcome basic real world issues like climbing (fly) or overland travel (teleport) the players have evolved to a point (or have experienced enough walking/campout sessions to be done enjoying them).</p>
<p>I wouldn't want every class to have casting as an innate ability though, or wild-shape or hunters mark, channel..etc. What makes the game fun for groups I'm in is the variety at the table, if everyone can cast fireball or turn into a bear, etc its not that cool in the group anymore or fun see how each person will address the problem posed to the group.</p>Arbane the Terrible wrote:What things can be better done by mundane means than through magic?
Just about the only things I can think of are building long-term relationships and (possibly) architecture.
For the most part, magic can top non-magical in most situations. Just like technology IRL, it provides a beyond human dimension. There are times when pure stealth or a disguise kit are best - typically to defeat a magical detecting situation. With magic being part of the system of fantasy...GM 19902016-02-10T23:20:13ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterInsain Dragoon (alias of Andrew Boucher 88)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1632016-02-10T23:06:15Z2016-02-10T23:06:15Z<p>I can't find the link to the C/MD thread database. I know this was added, but I've never seen the database.</p>
<p>Is there a section in it for "peaceably resolved"?</p>I can't find the link to the C/MD thread database. I know this was added, but I've never seen the database.
Is there a section in it for "peaceably resolved"?Insain Dragoon (alias of Andrew Boucher 88)2016-02-10T23:06:15ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Plot agency: for the martial characterScavionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2tb01&page=4?Plot-agency-for-the-martial-character#1622016-02-10T21:55:23Z2016-02-10T21:28:10Z<p>Yeah they don't like...ever sticky something.</p>Yeah they don't like...ever sticky something.Scavion2016-02-10T21:28:10Z