Help with Mythic Paladin


Advice


Hello

So we are soon starting Wrath of the Righteous and I have 0 experience with Mythic tiers i would apreciate any help or suggestions. Please no spoilers.

I m making a self obsessed lawfull stupid tiefling Paladin of Iomedea, who was a captive of evil fey during his whole childhood and prepared for a ritual so a demon could use his body in this world.

I m leaning towards a standart paladin rather then oath of vengence, I can get extra smites from the mythic path but feats are short on supply for extra lay on hands. I also like aura of justice better then powerfull justice.

We rolled stats so they look pretty good after racial mods of a Pitborn Tiefling (Succubus descendant)

Str: 19
Dex: 15
Con: 14
Int: 11
Wis: 12
Cha: 18

the high dex is debatable, but I like it.

Traits: Fiendish confidence (+1 intimidate and class skill)
Stolen Fury : Champion Mythic Path

I m planning on using an earthbreaker as main weapon, but if a magic falchion or greatsword drops i won t refuse it. I just don t want to focus on 1 weapon and leave my choices open.

Feats:
1. Fey foundling
3. Power attack
5. Hurtfull
7. Cornugon Smash
9. "xtra lay on hands"? or "armor of the pit"? +2 natural ac
11. ...?

Now Mythic Path champion, i was thinking:
-Fleet charge
1. Sunder Storm? Punishing Blow ? Mythic Smite (probably)?
3. Precision? Titans rage?
6.??

I m abit unsure how the cornugon hurtfull combo will mix with fleet charge, since both are swift actions, but I think I should be able to use both on a regular basis.

any input is apreciated. Have I missed something essential or cool?


Get ride of Fey Foundling and Hurtful. Replace them with Furious Focus removing the penalty on your first Power attack. Toughness is 3Hit Points then a hit point a level after third. Although you don't want to be weapon focused it wouldn't hurt to have a weapon focus for your main weapon.
Mythic abilities to consider is the armor training one where you can keep your full dex wearing first light then medium then heavy. The second is the one where you move 30 extra feat beyond your own speed. Both help immediately and in the long run.
Played till the third module and our Paladin did something like this he was a death dealing tank. Another feat replacement is Endurance if you plan to wear medium armor for more then a couple levels or get your heavy armor made into Mithral. Sleeping in armor without fatigue far more useful then people realize.


thx for your advice derek but why would i swap fey foundling for toughness? toughness gives me 1 hp per lvl, fey foundling gives me 1hp per level multiplied by the times i can use lay on hands. So it s 4, 5, 6 times as good as toughness.

I don t like furious focus, if the bonus would apply to the second attack maybe, but the first hit should strike home anyway.

thanks for the advice on the mythic stuff i ll look into those abilities.


Keep fey foundling and use the favored class bonus to increase what's gained from lay on hands. Really you don't need anything else, Furious Focus is good, but you can pick it up later. I like armor of the pit a lot. Unsanctioned Knowledge is nice. Reactive Healing is solid - but if you buy lots of pearls of power, it's not really needed. Ultimate Mercy is good as is the lay on hands feat that lets you raise dead. All depends on the group make up though as far as what would work best for you. Radiant Charge could be awesome with a Smite and Litany of Righteousness.


Power Attack starts to add up enough for players to stop using it at higher levels when it becomes more useful. Furious focus with Vital Strike ends that problem. Didn't know about Fey Foundling.


Cubic Prism wrote:
Keep fey foundling and use the favored class bonus to increase what's gained from lay on hands. Really you don't need anything else, Furious Focus is good, but you can pick it up later. I like armor of the pit a lot. Unsanctioned Knowledge is nice. Reactive Healing is solid - but if you buy lots of pearls of power, it's not really needed. Ultimate Mercy is good as is the lay on hands feat that lets you raise dead. All depends on the group make up though as far as what would work best for you. Radiant Charge could be awesome with a Smite and Litany of Righteousness.

great suggestions, didn t know about Unsanctioned Knowledge and Litany of Righteousness, I like both alot. What would be spells you could recommend from those other classes?

Reactive healing... isn t there a first lvl spell that does the same and is instantaneous? On the Ultimate mercy, I like feats to be used frequently, so I rather not invest in a 2 feat chain so I can resurect a team mate once or twice in the campaign.

I ll think about Furious focus, if I can t find anything more inspiring I might take it at 12th level.


Fey Foundling is probably the absolute best feat for a paladin. Not only does it work with lay on hands it works with all other healing including wands of cure light wounds. It now seems like all paladins were found in the woods as children.

Furious Focus is normally a good feat, but less so in a mythic campaign. The reason is that mythic power attack allows you to spend a mythic point and ignore the penalty for power attack on all attacks for 1 minute. It also gives you three points damage instead of 2 even when using a weapon single handed. This allows you to use a shield for defense without losing too much damage compared to using a two handed weapon. Combine this with armor of the pit and the AC bonus from smite evil and your AC will be very good.

Spending three mythic path abilities to get an additional +2 AC is not worth it. Seriously consider taking the mythic feat dual path. Mythic Smite is too good for a paladin to give up but there are a couple of things in the marshal path that are really worth it. Clarion Call allows you to grant your allies within 30 feet your active smite evil. This also allows you to pick up a Marshal’s Order in addition to your Champions Strike. Advance is actually pretty good. With it you can grant each of your allies (including yourself)the ability to make a move action or 5 foot step without it counting against their actions for the round.


Just a heads up: As a Paladin in Wrath of the Righteous, you will want to use your deity's favored weapon. Not that I think you have room for Weapon Focus or anything like that.

Your feats as laid out in the OP look good, though Hurtful might be less useful given the Swift Action bottleneck you will likely face. I would consider taking Intimidating Prowess at level 5, and Ancestral Scorn at level 9. The latter feat is amazing in a campaign so focused on fighting demons, and certain mythic abilities can practically guarantee that you succeed the check.

One small improvement is trading Fiendish Confidence for Omen. Does the exact same thing, plus gives you Intimidate as a Swift Action once per day.

Radiant Charge seems like a trap to me. You already have very good damage, especially when smiting enemy bosses. Going kamikaze with all your Lay On Hands uses, especially after you've invested in it because you rely on it to stay alive, sounds like a waste. Litany of Righteousness is powerful but very, very unlikely to succeed against anything important because it is negated by a Will save (your DCs will be low) and is subject to Spell Resistance (your Caster Level will be low).

Unsanctioned Knowledge is okay, but best reserved for high levels when you actually have enough spell slots to get more use out of it. You will find that you have enough useful spells to prepare in all your slots without having to poach from other class lists.

Take Divine Interference at level 13; you essentially use first-level spell slots to negate crits against you or your allies (making the DM reroll critical threats, with a -1 penalty for what that's worth).

Scarab Sages

Im a little crazy, but this is what Im currently playing in WotR.
Oracle (Lore) 1
Paladin of Arshea 7
Ranger (TangleBriar DemonSlayer) 1
Mythic: Guardian/Marshall

This build is a CHR for everything build. Its probably pretty cheesy but its a lot of fun.
Human: Charming, Reactionary
Paladin 1 - Fey Foundling, Noble Scion of War (CHR to init)
Oracle at 3rd - Sidestep Secret (CHR for Dex to AC, Ref saves), Extra Revelation: Lore Keeper, Knowledge Skills become CHR based
Ranger: favored Enemy Evil Outsiders +2
Other Feats:
Greater Mercy, +1d6 to LoH if target isnt afflicted with the Greater Mercy focus. Seeing as how this will be you, its a must. getting an extra die, means at least 3 more HP and maybe up to 8!
Slayer's Knack: This is some cheese. Taking a level of Ranger, and at higher level, you get this for Evil Outsiders and double your crit range. Its insane. Keen for free more or less. In WotR its a nobraniner. As is getting Bane: Evil Outsider on your sword ASAP!
I just took Celestial Obedience: Arshea, for a +4 on Diplomacy rolls if target could be attracted to you, that stacks with Charming for a total of +5. At 9th level, I've dumped everything into CHR, have a Headband of Alluring Charisma, so my CHR is at 24 (+7). My Diplomacy is +21 (or +26 if possible attraction). Not bad.
Smite Evil is really nice, +7 to Hit and AC. really nice.

For Mythic, I may have broken/misused it? At least in HeroLab, when you take Mythic Paragon it treats you as +2 to your tier in ALL regards, including HP. So taking Guradian with Mythic Paragon got me 15HP. I also took Extra Mythic Feat and went Dual Path: Marshal.

That was probably less than optimal. Absorb Blow and Decisive Strike as Call/Order.

In my build taking the Armor feat for light armor is actually worth it. It removes the Max Dex from the armor, so i can keep pulling max AC from it. its within one point difference between +1 Full Plate and +1 Chain Shirt, plus I'll have 30 ft move.

The Paladin+Fey Foundling makes you nearly unkillable, in and of itself (at least in Society play). Oradin all CHR build adds to that, my saves are all +15 or over, +9 to Init, LoH 10/day for 3D6 (4D6 greater mercy). Its pretty nice.

The BIG downside? Im so Evil Outsider focused, its tough killing your average human cultist!!! Maybe not tough, but man, it takes a long time! I only have a 16 Str, and no Power Attack or anything to increase damage. But against EO, I can dish it out!

Tiefling is very nice for the racial level bonus, you could have some crazy LoH!

Most of the other players have taken Mythic Power Attack/Deadly Aim. Theres a power that removes your range increment penalty, our Zen Archer is taking that.

Hope that helps! Its a fun AP. Good luck and remember: A.B.D.E. Always Be Detecting Evil! ALWAYS!


With unsanctioned Knowledge I'd grab Lead Blades. Ranger first level. It makes your weapon hit at a size category one higher. Every little bit helps. d8 longsword now does 2d6. One of the most badass melee type spells.


Athaleon wrote:

Just a heads up: As a Paladin in Wrath of the Righteous, you will want to use your deity's favored weapon. Not that I think you have room for Weapon Focus or anything like that.

Your feats as laid out in the OP look good, though Hurtful might be less useful given the Swift Action bottleneck you will likely face. I would consider taking Intimidating Prowess at level 5, and Ancestral Scorn at level 9. The latter feat is amazing in a campaign so focused on fighting demons, and certain mythic abilities can practically guarantee that you succeed the check.

One small improvement is trading Fiendish Confidence for Omen. Does the exact same thing, plus gives you Intimidate as a Swift Action once per day.

Radiant Charge seems like a trap to me. You already have very good damage, especially when smiting enemy bosses. Going kamikaze with all your Lay On Hands uses, especially after you've invested in it because you rely on it to stay alive, sounds like a waste. Litany of Righteousness is powerful but very, very unlikely to succeed against anything important because it is negated by a Will save (your DCs will be low) and is subject to Spell Resistance (your Caster Level will be low).

Unsanctioned Knowledge is okay, but best reserved for high levels when you actually have enough spell slots to get more use out of it. You will find that you have enough useful spells to prepare in all your slots without having to poach from other class lists.

Take Divine Interference at level 13; you essentially use first-level spell slots to negate crits against you or your allies (making the DM reroll critical threats, with a -1 penalty for what that's worth).

thank you all for so many good ideas.

I ll certainly take Omen, and need too make room for intimidating prowess. Ancestral scorn sounds great too abit narrow with the requierement for it to be a demon, which is a shame, but I ll see if by lvl 9 all we are fighting is demons I need to pick it up too!

I just saw that with Mystic feats you can also grab a normal one, soo my tier 3 feat will probably be Cornugon smash. Which leaves me abit short to spend it on dual path. I ll have to make up my mind if I go Marshall or Champion but all the input from this threat has given me new ideas.
So currently I am looking at:

If I go Marshall, Oath of Vengeance:

Feats:
1. Fey foundling
2. Clarion Call, T1
3. Power attack
4. Menacing Presence ?! T2
5. Hurtfull
6. Cornugon Smash T3
7. intimidating prowess
8. T4 ? Shatter Resilience?
9. "xtra lay on hands" or "armor of the pit" or Ancestral scorn
10. Mythic Power attack T5


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

To 'Win' the game.
Take champion
NEVER waste one of your limited mythic feats taking an ordinary feat
1st Mythic feat is power attack, mythic power is the one which lets you get an extra smite for a mythic point so you can pretty much always smite.

Also can get a full attack by spending a mythic point. Later on take legendry weapon for the Foebiter power and improved critical mythic. At this point you should be able to kill a demon lord in 1 round

Pick up the mythic powers allowing iterative attacks at no penalty.
(all above is based on previous experience)
Hurtful is something my player missed so you should be attacking 7 times a round ,after level 16 with an attack bonus to high to ever miss and an amount of damage beyond easy description (on the order of 700 +42d6 damage without any criticals if two handing and really you should be able to get this number higher)


Using a mythic feat to pick up a regular feat is a huge mistake. Take dual path instead and pick up both mythic power attack and mythic smite. You can use a mythic path ability to pick up an extra mythic feat, or the reverse. Never use mythic choices to pick normal ones.

Use your 7th level feat for cornugun smash and delay intimidating powers. You could may want to take dual path as your first mythic feat. It gives you both a champions strike and a marshal’s order so is probably the best bang for the buck.

You also seem to be confusing mythic path abilities and mythic feats. You get a path ability every tier and a mythic feat every other tier. So at tier 1 you could take dual path and pick up advance, clarion call and fleet charge. At tier 2 you can take mythic smite but you don’t get any mythic feats. Tier 3 gives you both a path ability and a mythic feat.


indeed, i was mixing up the path abilitys with the mythic feats. good call.
my problem really seems to be that I need 3-4 feats to make Hurtfull work. But the hole build is dependant on it, If I don t take it, I don t see the point of going the intimidate route at all.

So I m back to the original build and use the spare mithyc Path abilities to dip into Marshall for Clarion Call an ability I get at 11th level anyway?
If I shouldn t use Mythic feats for normal ones, what can you recommend?
All I got atm is Mythic Power attack, for the other feats I m taking there s no Mythic advancement of the feat:
I saw Mythic Dazzling Display (which needs weapon focus), and Mythic Dreadfull carnage( which requieres furious focus)
so I need 2 normal feats ( which I have not enough of it) to even pick up a Mythic feat.

So we are at:

Mithyc Path abilitiess Champion standard Paladin: *** are spare slots, please insert suggestions :-)

T1 Mythic Smite
Feat:***
T2 ***
T3 Titans Rage
Feat:***
T4 Precision
T5***
Feat:***
T6 Perfect strike

Where do I find the Legendary weapon feat, and at what tier can I use it?

Normal Feats:
1. Fey foundling
3. Power attack
5. Hurtfull
7. Cornugon Smash
9. Intimidating prowess
11. ...?


JohnHawkins wrote:

To 'Win' the game.

Take champion
NEVER waste one of your limited mythic feats taking an ordinary feat
1st Mythic feat is power attack, mythic power is the one which lets you get an extra smite for a mythic point so you can pretty much always smite.

Also can get a full attack by spending a mythic point. Later on take legendry weapon for the Foebiter power and improved critical mythic. At this point you should be able to kill a demon lord in 1 round

Pick up the mythic powers allowing iterative attacks at no penalty.
(all above is based on previous experience)
Hurtful is something my player missed so you should be attacking 7 times a round ,after level 16 with an attack bonus to high to ever miss and an amount of damage beyond easy description (on the order of 700 +42d6 damage without any criticals if two handing and really you should be able to get this number higher)

Thx for your input, that sounds insane :-) Yes I would like to two hand, preferably with a earthbreaker or the annoying coockie cutter two hander.

Above was mentioned I should use my Deities fav weapon, I don t even want to know why!! So that would be a longsword...

ATM I see no way around it to use Mythic feat slots for normal feats. And I can t really find a mithyc one that I say, wow I need that! Mythic Improved critical looks very weak with my weapon of choice the earthbraker, with a longsword or 2hander it looks ok, but if I now Imagine I could use the 2 feats to get normal dreadfull carnage, I would really prefer the carnage route.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Don't listen to him, he just wants your GM to cry. :-)


With Leadblades which I suggested for unsanctioned Knowledge the damage jumps from D8 to 2d6. Without giving anything away most adventure modules when they give out magic treasure especially weapons longsword is the preffered weapon. It also is a solid weapon and with Improved critical you chances to crit are pretty good.


Lead Blades is just +2.5 damage for 1 minute/level. In contrast, just for example, Divine Favor gives +1-3 to hit and damage for 1 minute.


Thx Derek sry i didn t reply, I really like lead blades, would make my hammer hit for 3w6 instead of 2w6 so that s a 3.5 dmg increase.
And noone said you can t use it together with divine favour :-)Altought i don t want to use up to many 1st level spells and rather keep them for emergency Hero s defiance :-)


While Aura of justice allows you to share your smite evil there are some important differences. First of all it takes two smite evils and a standard action to activate. Clarion call takes a swift action and uses a mythic point instead of two smites evils. It also affects all allies within 30 feet instead of 10 feet. Also with aura of justice is the bonus is not used by the start of the next turn it is lost. Clarion call will basically allow you to share your smite evil more often and allow it to be used by more allies. It also allows you to get a full attack while sharing your smite evil.

Since your first feat is going to be fey foundling that means you don’t pick up power attack till at least 3rd level. If you gain your first mythic tier at 2nd level you will not have anything to spend your mythic feat on. That is one reason I suggested dual path. This gets you an extra mythic ability (Marshal’s Order), and the ability to choose from two paths for your path abilities. Take mythic smite as your first mythic path ability.

Keep on thing in mind about hurtful is that you only get a single swift action per round. This means you are only gaining a single extra attack. Mythic has multiple ways to get an extra attack Also many mythic abilities require a swift action to activate. Between smite evil, lay on hands and mythic abilities you may not have a swift action available to get the extra attack.

If you plan on using a two handed weapon all mythic power attack gives you is the ability to ignore the penalty to hit. If you are using a one handed weapon it boost the damage to 3 points per 4 levels which is the same as using power attack with a two handed weapon. The extra damage does not require spending a mythic point and is always active when you use power attack. But what it does do is allow you to use a shield and have near the same damage as a two handed fighter.

Even without hurtful cornugun smash is a decent feat. Being able to apply a -2 to all attacks, saves, skill checks and ability checks as a free action is well worth a feat. Your target takes these penalties vs all creatures not just you. This means that the wizard in the party has a better chance to affect the target with a spell.

What are you looking for your paladin to do?


So with all this swift actions not really mixing well, I ve decided to make a build where I combine alot of advice I ve received in this thread. Cornugon smash and Hurtfull had to go, also Mythic power attack was replaced by the much weaker furious focus because it s a prereq for dreadfull carnage.

Paladin, Oath of Vengeance,
Mythic Marshall path

1. Fey foundling
2.ma Clarion Call
3. Power attack
4.ma Menacing presence, mF m Dual path Champion
5. Ancestral Scorn
6.ma Mythic Smite
7. Intimidating prowess
8.ma Precision mF ***?
9. Furious Focus
10.ma Titans rage
11. Dreafull Carnage
12.ma? perfect strike? mF Mythic dreadfull carnage?

It s more of a fear control build against Demons, dmg output is lower then with the previous build, but there s 2 ae fear effects, with Menacing presence from Marshall and the dreadfull carnage will be the center of the build.

Any suggestions what mythic feat I could use at tier 4/lvl 8?
Also which Tier6 Champion or Marshall Mithyc abilities carry the most punch? I can t make my mind up. I ve looked at:

-Sweeping Strike
-perfect strike
-Inspiring Assault ( but we have a bard) so haste makes this redundant
-Words of Valor (again a bard makes this redundant)


Mysterious Stranger wrote:

While Aura of justice allows you to share your smite evil there are some important differences. First of all it takes two smite evils and a standard action to activate. Clarion call takes a swift action and uses a mythic point instead of two smites evils. It also affects all allies within 30 feet instead of 10 feet. Also with aura of justice is the bonus is not used by the start of the next turn it is lost. Clarion call will basically allow you to share your smite evil more often and allow it to be used by more allies. It also allows you to get a full attack while sharing your smite evil.

Since your first feat is going to be fey foundling that means you don’t pick up power attack till at least 3rd level. If you gain your first mythic tier at 2nd level you will not have anything to spend your mythic feat on. That is one reason I suggested dual path. This gets you an extra mythic ability (Marshal’s Order), and the ability to choose from two paths for your path abilities. Take mythic smite as your first mythic path ability.

Keep on thing in mind about hurtful is that you only get a single swift action per round. This means you are only gaining a single extra attack. Mythic has multiple ways to get an extra attack Also many mythic abilities require a swift action to activate. Between smite evil, lay on hands and mythic abilities you may not have a swift action available to get the extra attack.

If you plan on using a two handed weapon all mythic power attack gives you is the ability to ignore the penalty to hit. If you are using a one handed weapon it boost the damage to 3 points per 4 levels which is the same as using power attack with a two handed weapon. The extra damage does not require spending a mythic point and is always active when you use power attack. But what it does do is allow you to use a shield and have near the same damage as a two handed fighter.

Even without hurtful cornugun smash is a decent feat. Being able to apply a -2 to all attacks, saves, skill...

funny I think we wrote our last post simultanious.

The main objectiv is certainly to be at the frontline and dish out dmg.
The Party consists of another Paladin (half giat), an Iquisitor, a buffbot goblin cleric and a bard.
So us Paladins and the Inquisitor are responsibl for the dmg in the grp. I ve tried to talk the cleric out of buffbotting and to make a warpriest, but he s refusing it because of roleplaying reasons.

I agree with the bottleneck swift action thing and posted a new build above.


Keep Cornugon Smash, it's a Free Action and it will be very difficult to get Intimidate away in combat without it.


You are still mixing up mythic feats and mythic path abilities. You get mythic feats on odd tiers and mythic path abilities every tier.

Dual path is a mythic feat so can be taken at tier 1, actually it is about the only mythic feat you will have access to at that tier. Take mythic smite before clarion call. Having more smites is more important than sharing them. At tier 2 you only get a mythic path ability not a feat so take clarion call then. At tier 3 your get both a mythic path ability, and a mythic feat. The only real mythic feat you qualify for is mythic power attack so you might as well take that. You can also take menacing presence as your mythic path ability at the same time. At tier 4 you only get a mythic path ability so take mythic precision. At tier 5 you can take Titans Rage and mythic intimidating powers.

Personally I would go with cornugun smash over intimidating powers, and take Mythic Paragon for your 5th tier mythic feat. The ability to demoralize as a free action is an very useful. It also works in conjunction with ancestral scorn. This will give you the ability to demoralize evil outsiders with every hit as a free action. Mythic Paragon will increase the duration of your Clarion Call and Titans Rage by two rounds


riiiight... well atleast i didn t mix them up, I just put the feats at the worng lvl:

1. Fey foundling
2.ma Mythic Smite mF Dual path Champion(fleet charge)
3. Power attack
4.ma Clarion Call,
5. Ancestral Scorn
6.ma Menacing presence mF ***?
7. Intimidating prowess
8.ma Precision
9. Furious Focus
10.ma Titans rage mF ***?
11. Dreafull Carnage
12.ma? perfect strike?

ma= Mythic Abilities
mF= Mythic Feat

I m not gona take mythic power attack if I have to take furious focus anyway for dreadfull carnage. It would only give me +2 to +4 on my secondary attacks who should be good enough with precision.

Intimidating prowess i really want. it will give me +6 or +8 to my intimidate. So I should have: cha4 +6str +6 ranks +1Omen +3class that s +20 Mythic intimidating prowess might be abit overkill but certainly worth considering :-)

So i m still left with one or two mythic feats, that I don t know what to do with. Cornugon smash might be the right choice, but I m open for suggestions if someone can think of a better use.

Hm Mythic paragon I think is abit wasted, just for 2 rounds of extra titans rage. If something survives 4 or 5 rounds where the hole party is smiting it with clarion we are clearly doing it wrong.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
captain yesterday wrote:
Don't listen to him, he just wants your GM to cry. :-)

I have to share the pain! Anyway every melee character was doing that sort of damage , sadly it's not hard to do.

Eldrith heritage Abyssal Mythic is nice if it fits your concept +6 strength adds to those huge damage numbers (my PC Paladin was a tiefling so it fit nicely until he became an aasimar)


Without the appropriate standard feat your choice of mythic feats are limited. Most of your feats do not have a mythic version so you have few choices. That is one of the reasons I suggested mythic power attack. If you really don’t want to take it you could take mythic furious focus but that would be later

Instead of Dreadful Carnage you may want to look into the marshal path ability of Castigate. It takes a swift action but you don’t even have to roll your intimidate to demoralize. Yea it is another ability taking up the swift action but it affects everyone within 30 feet and you can do it at the beginning of your turn so you gain the benefits even on the first attack.

Don't forget you also get a marshal's order at tier 1 if you are taking dual path.

Grand Lodge

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Some Good advice and some not so good advice on this Thread.

First and Foremost:

If your Rocking Iomedae as your God....then use her Favored Weapon. Regardless of the God...Use their favored weapon. Typically longswords are not worth it but this campaign makes a very special case to use your deities favored weapon and does so very quickly.

You SHOULD go Champion. Mythic Smite is the BEST mythic Path ability for you.

I HIGHLY recommend Mythic Vital strike. Normally I am against Vital strike (non-mythic) but mythic kicks it up to absurd levels. You will be gaining your first Mythic Tier at level 6. You typically gain a feat when you do so. Grab Vital then and Grab Mythic Vital strike as your First Mythic Feat. At the same time grabbing Mythic Smite. Congratulations you are now a Mythic Wrecking machine.

If you see something in another path you really like Dual Path is wonderful for Cherry Picking an ability for yourself. But do so After the above suggestion.

Congrats on getting to play the Paladin as it is a highly rewarded class in this AP.

Extra Lay on Hands is FAR superior to Toughness on a Paladin. Math has proven it to be so. Many threads and guides relate to this FACT!

Now lets take a Look:

Quote:

Feats:

1. Fey foundling
3. Power attack
5. Hurtfull
7. Cornugon Smash
9. "xtra lay on hands"? or "armor of the pit"? +2 natural ac
11. ...?

Now Mythic Path champion, i was thinking:
-Fleet charge
1. Sunder Storm? Punishing Blow ? Mythic Smite (probably)?
3. Precision? Titans rage?
6.??

Your not far off

Feats:
1. Fey foundling (YES!!! Even on Mythic is this a great Feat)
3. Power attack (Need it to do damage.)
5. Armor of the Pit or Extra Lay on Hands (Dealers Choice)
6. Vital Strike (this is an Ascension feat..you know your going to become Mythic and with Mythic comes nice bonuses.)
7. C. Smash
9. Improved Critical (Start Using Bless weapon ALL the time.)
11: (Free Feat) ((See Level 5 OR Pick something New. Skill Focus w/ Mythic Skill Focus Intimidate wouldn't be Terrible for a C. Smash build.))
13: Divine Interference

Champion Path:
-Fleet charge
1.Mythic Smite (Your Best Path Ability Hands down)

Mythic Feats:
1: Mythic Vital Strike

Other Mythic Feats I recommend AFTER Mythic Vital strike:
Mythic Power Attack
Mythic Improved Critical


Dual path is kinda of a hit or miss. Have seen it work really well other times it was better to focus on one path. As far as powers the armor one to heavy armor is cool and had players all agree worth taking if high Dex. Dex of 18 wearing and moving in Full plate scary thought. The extra speed one well worth if you are the melee guy get close fast. Another feat that most of the melee guys in my group pick up is Improved Initiative. Regardless of Dex it gives them a step up in beating a monsters roll allowing them to get to it before it can do any damage.
With Leadblade a Longsword's damage goes up comparable to a two handed weapon. Our group however always carry backup weapons one for every type of damage. Something to consider. Not saying specialize but carry a +1 blunt weapon never hurts.

Grand Lodge

Derek Dalton wrote:

Dual path is kinda of a hit or miss. Have seen it work really well other times it was better to focus on one path. As far as powers the armor one to heavy armor is cool and had players all agree worth taking if high Dex. Dex of 18 wearing and moving in Full plate scary thought. The extra speed one well worth if you are the melee guy get close fast. Another feat that most of the melee guys in my group pick up is Improved Initiative. Regardless of Dex it gives them a step up in beating a monsters roll allowing them to get to it before it can do any damage.

With Leadblade a Longsword's damage goes up comparable to a two handed weapon. Our group however always carry backup weapons one for every type of damage. Something to consider. Not saying specialize but carry a +1 blunt weapon never hurts.

The Only way to get Lead Blades on a Paladin is UMD. Which I always take Dangerously Curious on all my CHA based characters. So many 1st level spells you can put on a wand for 750gp and increase your quality of life. Shield, Longstrider, Feather step, Lead Blades, Gravity Bow, Moment of Greatness, Mount. The list can go on too.

Derek Dalton wrote:
With Leadblades which I suggested for unsanctioned Knowledge the damage jumps from D8 to 2d6. Without giving anything away most adventure modules when they give out magic treasure especially weapons longsword is the preffered weapon. It also is a solid weapon and with Improved critical you chances to crit are pretty good.

Just thought I should clear this up.

Unsanctioned Knowledge wrote:
Pick one 1st-level spell, one 2nd-level spell, one 3rd-level spell, and one 4th-level spell from the bard, cleric, inquisitor, or oracle spell lists.


Haven't read it in a long time. Seeing this seems almost a wasted feat.

Grand Lodge

It is not that wasted of a Feat at all.

Heroism and Mirror Image are 2nd level spell for a Bard. Both are hella good choices for Layering up defenses.

Considering you don't need to stick to a single spell list you can cherry pick the best of the Best spells off those class lists for each level of spells.

But on a Paladin the Trait Dangerously Curious goes a long way to bring in tools from other classes to help you dominate the front lines. Scrolls are dirty cheap as well as 1st level wands. Consumables tend to slip many people's mind but is one of the most effective ways to clear challenges more easily by throwing small amounts of gold at a problem.

Also if you want to increase size of a sword Enlarge person does it very well. It also gives you more Reach to boot.


Hi Fruian and welcome to the Party

Thx for your input. I get the impression I ll be using a longsword in this campaign :-(. The GM has also hinted at it: You re using a hammer ???!!? was his comment and he mentioned some gloves of Iomedae who only work with longswords.
So do I still wield a longsword 2 handed or should I rather go the sword and board route and pick up mythical power strike.
I am abit confused on the Vital strike part. Its the first time I play a full BAB class for a looong time and I m abit unsure how I would apply Vital? Do I use it after a fullattack by expending a mythic point with mythic initiative or do i just use it when I also move?

I have to admit, while I love the idea of an Aasimar fear Paladin who can sicken demons with it, the feat investment is on the heavy side.
It s 4 to 5 feats, 1 trait, 6 skillpoints and 1 mythic abilitie I m investing in it, just so I can aoe fear to great effect.
I wonder if dmg is not falling behind because of it.

Grand Lodge

Tyophelis wrote:

Hi Fruian and welcome to the Party

Thx for your input. I get the impression I ll be using a longsword in this campaign :-(. The GM has also hinted at it: You re using a hammer ???!!? was his comment and he mentioned some gloves of Iomedae who only work with longswords.
So do I still wield a longsword 2 handed or should I rather go the sword and board route and pick up mythical power strike.
I am abit confused on the Vital strike part. Its the first time I play a full BAB class for a looong time and I m abit unsure how I would apply Vital? Do I use it after a fullattack by expending a mythic point with mythic initiative or do i just use it when I also move?

I have to admit, while I love the idea of an Aasimar fear Paladin who can sicken demons with it, the feat investment is on the heavy side.
It s 4 to 5 feats, 1 trait, 6 skillpoints and 1 mythic abilitie I m investing in it, just so I can aoe fear to great effect.
I wonder if dmg is not falling behind because of it.

I would say go Longsword and just use a shield. It usually is inferior to 2 handed falchion and causes some action economy issues due to needing a free hand to LoH with. You can either sport a Light shield or grab a weapon cord and juggle the weapon.

Vital strike is a standard action attack. It does 1 single attack doing 2x weapon damage. But by taking the Mythic Version you get 2x weapon damage AND

Quote:
multiply the Strength bonus, magic bonus, and other bonuses that would normally be multiplied on a critical hit by the number of weapon damage dice you roll for that feat.

So basically your turn will look like this.

Swift action: SMITE!!!!!!
Move: Move to enemy
Standard: Mythic Vital strike

The Mythic Vital strike will look something like this damage wise roughly @ 6th level:

1d8+12(Smite)+4(Power attack)+2(Magic Weapon w/ Divine Bond)+5(Str)+?? (Miscellaneous damage buffs) x2= 2d8+46 19-20/x2 (Minimum 48 damage)

Once you get Mythic Improved critical and Pair it with Bless weapon you auto confirm Critical for 17-20/x3 Which you can critical Vital strikes.

As far as a Intimidate Build. I personally Like the Option of C.Smash+Mythic Skill focus. Why? Mythic Skill Focus allows you to take 20 on your intimidate skill check and C. Smash is a FREE ACTION done during your turn without fighting for Action Economy. SO your getting 20+Skill each and every time WITHOUT using ANY mythic power. This allows you to kill your target with power attack/Vital strikes and shaking them (IF THEY SURVIVE...most wont.). Dazzling display and Hurtful are not as Action efficient as C. Smash and Enforcer IMHO. I am the type of Player who shoots for efficiency in my builds.

I would not invest too heavily into Demoralize builds as Mythic is rocket tag at its finest. The damage gets crazy ridiculous very fast and most mythic fights is determined by initiative and how much damage can be unloaded. AC means crap as Demon LOrds will hit you...so its about your layered defense and Immunities. if you are trying to weather more than 1 round of combat. When my group ran the AP most fights never lasted longer than a single round. All the combat guys could effectivly kill bosses in a full round or Vital strike. Me playing the wizard could end fights in a single round with a flurry of spell work. And the Cleric just did fun stuff cause they felt bored. Later they became a stay at home cleric just cause he could be. Way too much power with mythic and many of the choices are good and you can't go wrong. But when it comes to a Combat paladin the 2 best mythic choices hands down are Mythic Smite and Mythic Vital strike. Mythic Vital strike is so broken that I myself ban it in my games and Most the Paizo community has made a complaint against it. But why not use it if you are allowed it...right? lol


thx fruian, That s some sad news, I ve warned the other players that this Mythic stuff would get out of hands and that the DM should hold back on offensiv magic items, because everything starts to multiply with each other. They laughed at me told me, that I ve never encountered Tanaris. That this game will be epic etc.
If mythic vital strike is so game braking I won t use it. I like to optimize my characters but avoid broken stuff, so everyone at the table can have fun.
But I am looking to build a more vanilla Paladin with improved critical and longsword, still trying to sneak in some dazzling display and Ancestral scorn. The ability of a AE Demon sicken just sounds amazing.

wow mythic persuasiv sounds insane! would love that, but again 2 feats will be hard to squeeze in.

Grand Lodge

Tyophelis wrote:

thx fruian, That s some sad news, I ve warned the other players that this Mythic stuff would get out of hands and that the DM should hold back on offensiv magic items, because everything starts to multiply with each other. They laughed at me told me, that I ve never encountered Tanaris. That this game will be epic etc.

If mythic vital strike is so game braking I won t use it. I like to optimize my characters but avoid broken stuff, so everyone at the table can have fun.
But I am looking to build a more vanilla Paladin with improved critical and longsword, still trying to sneak in some dazzling display and Ancestral scorn. The ability of a AE Demon sicken just sounds amazing.

wow mythic persuasiv sounds insane! would love that, but again 2 feats will be hard to squeeze in.

Its up to you. I Know mythic is a broken system all together. One Feat isn't going to make much of a difference when you weight it in comparison to certain staples of the Mythic System.

A longsword paladin is great. But Shaking a Creature with too many feats invested is not the best option. If you really want it you can but that -2 is going to do very little when the enemies get +45 (or MORE) to attack. Remember the end game of mythic will pit you against demon lords themselves. Mythic makes the PCs like Demi-gods. Your DM is in for a Beating even if you chose the most Sub par abilities in the book.

But then again I'm the player who can build some serious powerful characters. If they laugh and say you never have met Tanaris or X....I have formed my Group of regular players whom I play with that have literally banned certain builds of mine from ever being at a table or have changed their ban lists/DM methods just to handle me at the table. I have one Bloodrager build that could solo Most of Carrion Crown AP from levels 8+.

I don't make these suggestion for you lightly. They are from experience as I have played the AP and familiar with the Mythic System. The options I suggest are full of Synergy and Optimal picks. Using it as a shell and toning down where you feel you will still end up with a strong character as long as you do not completely butcher it down. The paladin gets Smite to By pass all the DR Epic out there and using your Deities favored weapon you will be doing better than most classes in this game. And someone has to be the group leader =) why not the strongest and most Charismatic as well?

Now if I really wanted to get into the Power gaming the Legendary Item would be the Most broken option in the Mythic Game. I at least avoided that. My groups Fighter used a Legendary built Scythe with Mythic Improved critical and Mythic Vital strike. He was doing HUNDREDS of damage a hit and on a Critical could full out kill a demon lord by 13th level by doing 900ish damage. The archer Paladin was just as nasty. I never got to see his Build but he had no issue dropping bosses in a single round and could Take 20 on Initiative checks w/ mythic Improved Initiative. The game became too easy by 13th level and the group decided to move on to a non-mythic campaign and we just called it a win for the PCs cause nothing was really going to be able to stop us.


Completed three modules of Wrath of the Rightous. The mythic and magic items are all in the module. Now magic items bought outside are his domain. My Wizard aqquired Teleport so we all just teleported to Abselom and sold and bought magic items we wanted over some of the stuff we got. Mythic is sick and a pain for both players and GMs. Had a friend ask if I should allow mythic being relatively inexperienced told him hell no. I did it and was shocked at how quickly the power stacks up and we only hit like Tier four.
I agree with Fruian about a shield. Even if you choose to use a two handed weapon some combats you want a higher defense then offense. That's where you switch to a one handed weapon and pull out a heavy steel shield. Sometimes having a higher defense wins the day over a seemingly higher offense.

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