Replace a Lost Class Ability with an Archetype Ability


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I am just beginning a new 1st level campaign and one of my players is playing a Wizard (Exploiter Wizard).

I have no issue with the archetype but a use of the exploits has raised alarm bells with me.

Taking the School Understanding Exploit is effectively giving back a large percentage opf the abilities lost by slecting this archetype.

I was happy with this but whilst investigating various builds for my player I have come across a number of posts that indicate that you cannot replace a class ability once it has been removed (unless you take another character class that gains it).

Thoughts?


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Not applicable in this case- it's your new class feature granting them, which is fine.


He's fine and good. He has exploits. One of the options is school understanding. If he picks it he gets it, just as an arcanist would.

Shadow Lodge

You're referring to this line?

School Understanding wrote:
If the arcanist already has an arcane school (or gains one later), taking this exploit instead allows her arcanist levels to stack with the levels of the class that granted the arcane school when determining the powers and abilities of her arcane school.

If you don't have an arcane school because you traded it away, you don't get the benefit of this favourable stacking.

Without the favourable stacking you only get a small fraction of the school benefits, so it's fine.


Talsharien wrote:
Taking the School Understanding Exploit is effectively giving back a large percentage opf the abilities lost by slecting this archetype.

It's actually a very small percentage of the school that is gained, remember that it's only a 1st level power that is limited to a number of times per day, and the other 1st level power only a few rounds per day.

Talsharien wrote:
I was happy with this but whilst investigating various builds for my player I have come across a number of posts that indicate that you cannot replace a class ability once it has been removed (unless you take another character class that gains it).

Don't really understand what you mean. The only real ways to replace class abilities is through archetypes. It is true that you can't replace a class ability that you don't have or don't have anymore. You can't trade away similar abilities you gain from other sources. But as far as the School Understanding Exploit goes, it does not replace any class abilities.


Talsharien wrote:


I was happy with this but whilst investigating various builds for my player I have come across a number of posts that indicate that you cannot replace a class ability once it has been removed (unless you take another character class that gains it).

I think there's some confusion here (all of the other replies are correct).

You cannot take multiple archtypes if they both "take away" the same thing, as you apply one archtype, lose that ability, and no longer have that ability to "trade out". If something else gives it back to you, then that's all hunky dory.

Like if I took an archtype of monk that lost stunning fist as a class ability, but I qualified to take it as a feat, I could take it. It's actually sub-optimal to do things like this, but rules legal.


So if I took a wizard archetype that traded away Scribe Scroll, I could then take Scribe Scroll as my 1st-level feat?


Morgan Champion wrote:
So if I took a wizard archetype that traded away Scribe Scroll, I could then take Scribe Scroll as my 1st-level feat?

You sure can.

Nice avatar. :)

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