Thoughts on Laxing the Replaying Policies


Pathfinder Society

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3/5

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Hello,

Some of the more prolific posts on the Paizo forums might recall a few months ago when I proposed an alternate rewards system for GMs who run Pathfinder Society games. While many people agreed with me that coordinators need a way to reward GMs more, a surprising number of people seemed utterly against rewarding people who take time out of their busy lives to prepare our games for us on a regular basis. I was surprised by this result, but went back to the grindstone to ponder ideas for an alternate rewards system regardless. Then life happened. One thing lead to another, and now I’m a Venture-Agent for my favorite place to play PFS. Go figure.

The place that I’m currently running is old. We’re not talking Season 0 old, but old enough that I have a backlog of data spanning roughly four years in front of me. Yikes. Part of the turf that comes with inheriting a location with such an oppressive amount of data is that it becomes REALLY hard to run Game Days. Why? Well, there’s a few different reasons. First, our gamers tend to be fairly hard-core. They play a lot, and they play often. Most sit down to at least two tables a week, with some managing nearly four a week. Sometimes as GMs, sometimes as players. Crazy, right? Although numbers differ between people, let’s say that as a safe average, roughly half of my store’s player and GM base is sitting down to an average of 10 games a month. Now, it doesn’t take Albert Einstein to realize that the amount of games being played at my store drastically exceeds Paizo’s ability to publish scenarios, so in a nutshell, the problem that I’m running into is that it is getting increasingly hard to deliver games for my store that people can play.

One of the common responses to my issue is, “Well, tell them to GM.” Obviously, if they’ve played a piece of content before, my players should be able to run the game and get twice as much out of the content. Putting aside the implications that my players should “GM or stop whining,” mathematically that’s impossible; it requires all of the players present to perfectly swap with one another; the GM and players from Table 1 switching with the GM and players from Table 2. How often does that happen in practice? The net result is that I have people scattered all over the place, and not a whole lot of flexibility when it comes to offering them things that they can enjoy. It’s sad, really.

Now, what can we not as organizers, but as an organization, do about this? How can we keep people who are interested in playing, but who are almost entirely prevented from doing so? One idea that I had, funny enough, was by employing the Sky Key. Yes, that Sky Key. The fictitious artifact, or at least, its concept. Let me explain.

When we talk replying scenarios, typically the answer is a big, resounding, “NO.” Usually the reasons are twofold; first, we’re afraid that the replayer will spoil the story for people who haven’t yet experienced it. Second, we’re certain that people will use the ability to replay scenarios to farm desirable boons on their characters. In terms of replaying content, that already exists in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. The rules clearly allow replaying for no credit, so long as everyone at the table is aware and accepting of the replayer. Furthermore, we allow GMs to replay scenarios if they possess a specific boon. I think that if we can trust GMs to replay scenarios for credit fairly, we can trust every player to. That being said, I think that the issue regarding boon farming is, sadly, an apt one. Which is where my Sky Key suggestion comes in. Basically, we use the Sky Key as an in-universe excuse to allow players and GMs to replay scenarios for reduced credit. Each scenario is worth its normal amount of XP and gold (because both wealth and experience are factored into the game’s balance), but the character gets all boons crossed off her chronicle sheet, save for those that inflict conditions that must be removed via the expenditure of resources (like curses, diseases, or Bonekeep’s debuffs). The excuse for this lies with the Sky Key:

Spoiler:

In 7-00: The Sky Key Solution, we see that the Sky Key has the power to catapult someone back through time for the Society’s purposes. After the catastrophic events of that scenario, we can say that the Pathfinder Society is attempting to perfect technology that will allow a Pathfinder to experience any moment in time of the society’s choosing, regardless to the agent’s relative distance to the place where that event occurred. This would not only provide a useful plot point for future scenarios and give players who have experienced that storyline a sense of fruition, but it would also explain why the boons don’t stick with the Pathfinder unless they’re detrimental; the Pathfinder wasn’t truly there for the event, so she doesn’t get any of the rewards for actually being there.

Whether or not we stick with this fluff or come up with something else, I personally think that laxing a bit on replaying is good for the Society as a whole. We want people wandering into our game stores seeing a full, excited, and energetic crowd to make them curious about what, exactly, is going on with this “Pathfinder Society” thing, and we’re not going to get that happen if our gaming rules make it difficult or undesirable for people to play together. This isn’t so much about, “accommodating the few people who are locked out,” as it is, “making it easier for friends old and new to enjoy the game together, without punishing people who are willing to take another trip on an old ride for the sake of newer players,” which I believe is something we should promote and commend, not ban.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

GMs already get replay with stars.

And there are other ways to increase that.

No boon that would allow a replay for 'just cash and xp (what about PP?) would work well, as that then turns a *great* scenario into a middling-mediocre 'cash/leveling run'.

And when scenarios turn into that, they lose a great deal of their flavor, imo.

Having played *a long time* in another long-running campaign, I can safely say that 'layering on the rules so thick it'd gouge a hole in the side of the Titanic' is not a good route to go.

So it'd have to be simple, non-punitive, and inclusive. Perhaps an option to take either the cash OR the access to the items on a given chronicle? The only drawback is that will put some characters well behind on WBL, and that does stack up over time.


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Why not play Pathfinder outside of PFS? I know this might shock some people but that can be fun and with people that dedicated to playing surely you can get a couple of tables for ongoing campaigns.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

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Let's see. You have Standard and Core, plus a GM Star replay, so 5 times through an adventure for credit, plus additional GM runs for table stars.

For more than that, within PFS rules, I am going to wait and watch for the results, since you have cast the "Summon Drogon" spell......

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


GMs already get replay with stars.

Once. Unless they DM at conventions.

Quote:
So it'd have to be simple, non-punitive, and inclusive. Perhaps an option to take either the cash OR the access to the items on a given chronicle? The only drawback is that will put some characters well behind on WBL, and that does stack up over time.

a bus exception where your options would be to replay or go home on the bus would work, along with no prestige no xp (maybe chronicle sheet loot? Chronicle sheet loot 1 time in 10? 5?) would make the geek sudoku for scheduling less exacting while keeping the 5 people replaying the table problem that previous campaigns had to a dull roar

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Once. Unless they DM at conventions.

GM boons are now the choice of Expanded Narrative or seasonal race boon. Gamedays are also being piloted with GM boons.

Dark Archive 4/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Upper Midwest aka Silbeg

Note that you cannot replay for no credit, unless the replayer is making a legal table.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Remember we don't all get to work off of that information Toz...

Grand Lodge

I honestly don't see a reason to add more replay into the campaign. I understand that there are people who are running out of content (we have some locally too), but that has been their choice. The fact is there is a limited amount of published material, this was an issue that existed when we started playing, when we decide to continue playing at a huge rate, and will always be a limiting factor. That said there are options for increasing the amount of play one can have with Modules, APs, Core, Normal, and Evergreens. (Not to mention Pirate Rob's guide to infinite play being out there somewhere, though I can't find it atm). And yes GMing does greatly increase the amount of play you can do.

Assuming a player who doesn't GM at all, it's actually fairly easy to fill twice a week schedule. (Assume a 4 weeks a month - that's 8 sessions a month) (a general synopsis of Pirate Rob's guide from memory. For people who like to GM they can double double everything)

2 scenarios a month released.
Scenario A Play - Normal
Scenario B Play - Normal
Scenario A Play - CORE
Scenario B Play - CORE
Evergreen A (either)
Evergreen B (either)
Module (or AP section) - 2 or 3s session (not including a couple of much faster ones)
And you're at 8 or 9 sessions.

Add in some GM sessions or ACG to fill out any extra.

And because someone always brings up that the evergreens get boring after X plays of them. There are enough evergreens to do a different one every month and have some left over.

Evergreens:

We Be Goblins
First Steps
Confirmation
Wounded Wisp
Consortium Compact
Silverhex
Phantom Phenomena
Master of the Fallen Fortress
Crypt of the Everflame
Godsmouth Heresy
Murder's Mark
Thornkeep 1
Emerald Spire 1
Reign of Winter 1
Mummy's Mask 1

I am however all for more published material, existing but that runs into a different set of limiting factors.

5/5 Venture-Agent, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East aka Pirate Rob

BigNorseWolf wrote:


Remember we don't all get to work off of that information Toz...

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5liaz?OPC-Log-14-Kuthona-4715

Blog wrote:
We also added GameDay boons to the mix, designed to bridge the gap between weekly sessions and conventions.

http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lhvh?25-New-Reasons-to-Attend-a-Conven tion

Blog wrote:
by popular demand, we took the much-desired Expanded Narrative boon—allowing one to "recharge" GM star replay opportunities by GMing more games—and converted it into an alternate GM boon. Now every time you GM at a convention, you can earn your choice of that or that quarter's boon that unlocks the ability to play a PC with a rare race.

I don't know for sure if expanded narrative will be available as part of the game day boons, but it seems like a good guess.

Grand Lodge 3/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Southwest aka Socalwarhammer

I know that really active GMs out there can find it hard to locate (and play) a scenario they haven't GM'd or played, but replays are a awkward subject, particularly when the GM-now player has too much knowledge which can be a drag for other players also. I know that no credible GM would use inside knowledge to 'win with ease' but it is often hard not to remember that in the center of the room of encounter number 2 that there is a pit trap.

Hopefully we can push paizo towards make more seasonal scenarios and help eliminate this problem once and (hopefully) for all.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Pretty sure I saw that posted either on a Blog post or from one of Tonya's or John's posts somewhere, BNW.

As for your new idea, I don't see how unlimited replay is a good idea. If you guys are having trouble getting scenarios to fire at your local store, there are plenty of alternatives like scheduling Core tables or running modules.

As an aside, you and I seem to be remembering your previous thread wildly differently.

Paizo Employee 5/5 Developer

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Socalwarhammer wrote:
Hopefully we can push paizo towards make more seasonal scenarios and help eliminate this problem once and (hopefully) for all.

Seasonal scenarios?

The Exchange

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John Compton wrote:
Socalwarhammer wrote:
Hopefully we can push paizo towards make more seasonal scenarios and help eliminate this problem once and (hopefully) for all.
Seasonal scenarios?

Scenarios per season.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm sure that the folks who are awesome will weigh in on this, but scenario creation is a time-consuming, pricey process.

I know this from writing material for a different campaign (without as much support as this one puts together) that it isn't nearly as easy as 'oh, just write more scenarios each year'...

Dark Archive

Ragoz wrote:
John Compton wrote:
Socalwarhammer wrote:
Hopefully we can push paizo towards make more seasonal scenarios and help eliminate this problem once and (hopefully) for all.
Seasonal scenarios?
Scenarios per season.

I feel like the seasonal scenario count is high enough. ~2 adventures a month, if you played or gm'ed in either standard or core, doing any one of those once a week, on top of AP's and modules, you would literally not run out of things to do.

I get people are passionate about society play and want to do it at every opportunity, but I would rather maintain the current schedule and the quality that comes with it instead of pumping out more scenarios with decline in quality or amount of content. Remember, we could in theory get credit for The Orc and the Pie.

Although I'm in favor of pie based boons...

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Maybe not a new scenario per month but as an experiment, or stress test if you'd prefer, one or two months could have 3 scenarios come out. Preferably 1-5 and 7-11 since those two tiers get asked for the most. Try that for a season, see how it goes.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/5 Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Chester aka Paz

Muser wrote:
Maybe not a new scenario per month but as an experiment, or stress test if you'd prefer, one or two months could have 3 scenarios come out. Preferably 1-5 and 7-11 since those two tiers get asked for the most. Try that for a season, see how it goes.

If you include the various specials, exclusives, sets of quests etc. then recent seasons have already been well over two scenarios per month.

Season 6 saw 23 normal scenarios, two single-table specials, two multi-table specials, a set of quests and an exclusive (level of Bonekeep) for a total of 29 scenario-length releases.

And that's before taking into account sanctioned modules and adventure paths. If there are hardcore groups of committed players, an AP is plenty to get your teeth into and (in most cases) gives PFS rewards.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I understand that, but if people are asking for more scenarios, then alternatives with strings attached (Bonekeeps need gm stars, multi-tables need multiple tables, Serpents used to need a VO, iirc, WBG and Dragons use pregens, etc) are not the answer.

I'm not critizising policy here. I've got plenty to play as it is(28 scens unplayed, BK 3, several specials, santioned content) and have told new players about the hard facts of heavy playing so they DON'T play 5-10 times a month. But these threads keep popping up, so I'm wont to spitball.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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I'm completely against making replay easier than it is now. I've stated why many times in previous threads.

While we don't necessarily want to come out and say, "play less." We need to effectively explain the finite resource. And if they choose to ignore that and play themselves out of things to play, that really is thier own fault.

Dark Archive 2/5

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I know im going to get yelled at by the Elites.. But the replay rules are broken. Plain and simple we have players who aren't coming to game days and or switching to other games because they have played all or most of the pfs games that are normally played. it is ALWAYS a hassle trying to figure out who can play what. In my humble opinion the replay rules need to be removed. As long as you play with another cha, and don't ruin it for folks that haven't played that scenario I would vote that that's ok. That being said, DND doent have these restrictions. Cheers all, My apologies if my opinion upsets anyone that's not my intention. I just want to play, and I see the replay rules as a detriment to play.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

Mr.Nightray wrote:
Plain and simple we have players who aren't coming to game days and or switching to other games because they have played all or most of the pfs games that are normally played.

I know. We schedule the same scenarios at our different stores to make sure that out prolific players don't attend every game day. I'm actively engineering that specifically to prevent them from overplaying all the scenarios. You can see how here.


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Mr.Nightray wrote:

I know im going to get yelled at by the Elites.. But the replay rules are broken. Plain and simple we have players who aren't coming to game days and or switching to other games because they have played all or most of the pfs games that are normally played. it is ALWAYS a hassle trying to figure out who can play what. In my humble opinion the replay rules need to be removed. As long as you play with another cha, and don't ruin it for folks that haven't played that scenario I would vote that that's ok. That being said, DND doent have these restrictions. Cheers all, My apologies if my opinion upsets anyone that's not my intention. I just want to play, and I see the replay rules as a detriment to play.

PFS is a vehicle for Paizo to attract people into the game to spend money on their product. Much of Paizo's product is sold through game stores. Here is a game store owner's take on why replay is a bad thing Drogon.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5 Venture-Captain, Virginia—Richmond aka Slothsy

If you have a group that plays that often and that regularly, have you tried looking into modules/sanctioned AP legs play? All of these options take multiple weeks of play, and provides opportunities that have probably been unexplored. Of course, this only works with a stable group who comes weekly but the new ruling on what to do if a player drops mid-sessions gives GMs and organizers more tools to handle. I know that I've been looking into opening up an weekday evening PFS slot that focuses on modules and AP legs.

As for opening up replay? Honestly, even your boon-less version will cause more problems for my area and my game days than it makes. When I rolled out Core games, I hoped it would mainly be for people who had option fatigue or otherwise wanted a more restrictive environment. However, in my region, our Core tables are pretty much exclusively replayers, which is... eh? For me personally, it's not fun to replay or have prior knowledge of a scenario, or to have other players who can't participate fully because of that. It kinda sucks, honestly.

I personally am a fan of GMs being able to re-run for credit, as re-run only ever adds to the experience while replay takes away from it. Rerun for credit does cut down on chronicle sheet farming, as you have to figure out a way to find more players, which either means you run through that resource or you end up having to recruit more players.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

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I discourage game play that harms the community and encourage game play that helps it. Unlimited replay is a harmful kind of game play.

My wife explains it with her psychology degree as a behavioral issue. If you keep allowing them to be thoughtless and still play, they will remain thoughtless about the games they play. If you start letting tables fail because no one planned for it, their behavior will change. When I started letting tables fail because we had no GMs, players started volunteering to GM. Reward the type of organization you want and don't reward that which you don't want.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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UndeadMitch wrote:
Pretty sure I saw that posted either on a Blog post or from one of Tonya's or John's posts somewhere, BNW.

A general something is coming yes. That specific something is coming no.

Quote:
As for your new idea, I don't see how unlimited replay is a good idea. If you guys are having trouble getting scenarios to fire at your local store, there are plenty of alternatives like scheduling Core tables or running modules.

The problem we have is being just on the edge of 2 tables most of the time. I take the high table, someone else preps a low table. Completely new guy walks in he gets a pregen for the high table. Newish guy shows up we need to run the low tables again (because you can't pregen your way out of second level to third to run the 3-7s). We have new players , some people that are on their -20s, some people that just play at our comic shop and some people that venue hop. It means we need to have two tables everyone can play in case we have to collapse onto one of them.

Core tables exacerbate the problem of geek Sudoku in small venues. Exponentially.

I can't see a no loot no xp no chronicle sheet reward replay option being used often enough to be harmful.

Quote:
As an aside, you and I seem to be remembering your previous thread wildly differently.

I don't THINK the OP is one of my personalities...

Shadow Lodge 4/5

There's always other organized play campaigns. I've been wanting to try DnD for a while. Too bad about the venue restriction.

I have to wonder about those hoping for replay, why not just play the scenarios outside organized play system? I've heard of gm's using all the PFS rules(1 exp/scenario, Fame, factions, etc) and running a home campaign with them. You could even organize a regular table for that.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Pennsylvania—King of Prussia aka Alexander Augunas

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
GMs already get replay with stars.

You're not wrong, but 5 replays after 150 games doesn't really make my players any more flexible, and it's sort of lame to make GMs pick between playing more and having unique perks.

Quote:
So it'd have to be simple, non-punitive, and inclusive. Perhaps an option to take either the cash OR the access to the items on a given chronicle? The only drawback is that will put some characters well behind on WBL, and that does stack up over time.

I like this line of "how can we make this work," better then the dismissive replied that I usually get. Thanks!

I think flat-out removing the chronicle items is best, but with a limited use ability to " deactivate" the things your losing. Like the ability to use the Expanded Narriative boon to get full rewards from the scenario instead of the super limited rewards from the Sky Key replay option.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Pennsylvania—King of Prussia aka Alexander Augunas

Jessex wrote:
Why not play Pathfinder outside of PFS? I know this might shock some people but that can be fun and with people that dedicated to playing surely you can get a couple of tables for ongoing campaigns.

A lot of us do! I myself am involved in two home gsmes, Carrion Crown, and Reign of Winter with various people in our lodge. I'm also starting Jade Regent at the end of the month.

For us, though, PFS is a time that we can ALL get together and play some quick games. We're a small but tightly-knit community, and we have some friends who can only make it out to PFS because it doesn't require commitment. But yes, many of my friends are hardcore players and loosening the restrictions even slightly would help us.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Pennsylvania—King of Prussia aka Alexander Augunas

kinevon wrote:

Let's see. You have Standard and Core, plus a GM Star replay, so 5 times through an adventure for credit, plus additional GM runs for table stars.

For more than that, within PFS rules, I am going to wait and watch for the results, since you have cast the "Summon Drogon" spell......

What's a Drogon?

As for your options, I know Core is an option, but I have a REALLY hard time scheduling Core in my area. Most of my players buy product to support Paizo and our FLGSs, and don't like being limited from using their products. Honestly, I don't blame them for that; I feel similarly about Core. So yeah, it's an option, but not a particularly desirable one from my standpoint.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Pennsylvania—King of Prussia aka Alexander Augunas

BigNorseWolf wrote:
a bus exception where your options would be to replay or go home on the bus would work, along with no prestige no xp (maybe chronicle sheet loot? Chronicle sheet loot 1 time in 10? 5?) would make the geek sudoku for scheduling less exacting while keeping the 5 people replaying the table problem that previous campaigns had to a dull roar

That seems too complicated to me, unless an all new sheet was developed to track it. Even still, the solution needs to be something that pleases both sides without being a hassle for book keeping.

Paizo Employee Contributor—Canadian Maplecakes

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Ragoz wrote:
John Compton wrote:
Socalwarhammer wrote:
Hopefully we can push paizo towards make more seasonal scenarios and help eliminate this problem once and (hopefully) for all.
Seasonal scenarios?
Scenarios per season.

It's as if millions of developer voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

I fear something terrible has happened.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Pennsylvania—King of Prussia aka Alexander Augunas

Steven Schopmeyer wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Once. Unless they DM at conventions.
GM boons are now the choice of Expanded Narrative or seasonal race boon. Gamedays are also being piloted with GM boons.

I don't think Expanded Narrative is all that useful in combating my personal situation, since it's usually good for one or two games on average, so our gamer mentality is to save them for the "big stuff," like specials or modules.

This is the first I've heard about GameDay boons, however. That's pretty exciting!

3/5 Venture-Agent, Pennsylvania—King of Prussia aka Alexander Augunas

Thurston Hillman wrote:
Ragoz wrote:
John Compton wrote:
Socalwarhammer wrote:
Hopefully we can push paizo towards make more seasonal scenarios and help eliminate this problem once and (hopefully) for all.
Seasonal scenarios?
Scenarios per season.

It's as if millions of developer voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced.

I fear something terrible has happened.

Compton AND Thursty? Now my thread's really a party!

Awaits the inevitable announcement of kitsune genocide in terror.

3/5 Venture-Agent, Pennsylvania—King of Prussia aka Alexander Augunas

Jack Brown wrote:
Note that you cannot replay for no credit, unless the replayer is making a legal table.

Thanks for the heads-up!

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

As much as I love playing and GM-ing in Pathfinder Society, the replay restriction is one of the weakest areas.

I would love to replay some of the best scenarios or GM them for other folks but with no credit applied to anyone, even for GM-ing it again, there is little incentive beyond just enjoyment, which, admittedly, there is much of.

I would love to be able to Play specific scenarios such as Waking Rune, Rats of Round Mountain, or the big one, Eyes of the Ten more than once. With what we have, when the first group got past retirement, the second group is basically having some trouble filling their ranks because the higher level character players can't replay it.

GM Star Refreshes being a convention boon is pretty terrible really. They should refresh annually at the start of the season (Gen Con). I know that now the annual boon someone mentioned may be a possibility, but prior to that, if you didn't go and play at a big convention, your stars meant squat really. An annual refresh for all would help immensely in making GM-ing meaningful to those that cannot play at conventions.

Silver Crusade 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
UndeadMitch wrote:
Pretty sure I saw that posted either on a Blog post or from one of Tonya's or John's posts somewhere, BNW.

A general something is coming yes. That specific something is coming no.

Quote:
As for your new idea, I don't see how unlimited replay is a good idea. If you guys are having trouble getting scenarios to fire at your local store, there are plenty of alternatives like scheduling Core tables or running modules.

The problem we have is being just on the edge of 2 tables most of the time. I take the high table, someone else preps a low table. Completely new guy walks in he gets a pregen for the high table. Newish guy shows up we need to run the low tables again (because you can't pregen your way out of second level to third to run the 3-7s). We have new players , some people that are on their -20s, some people that just play at our comic shop and some people that venue hop. It means we need to have two tables everyone can play in case we have to collapse onto one of them.

Core tables exacerbate the problem of geek Sudoku in small venues. Exponentially.

I can't see a no loot no xp no chronicle sheet reward replay option being used often enough to be harmful.

Quote:
As an aside, you and I seem to be remembering your previous thread wildly differently.
I don't THINK the OP is one of my personalities...

Should have been clearer, only the first bit was directed at you.

Grand Lodge

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Core tables exacerbate the problem of geek Sudoku in small venues. Exponentially.

No. No it doesn't. It may not work for your venue, but it works just fine for others (like mine).

If the players are interested in Core, then you schedule Core tables. If the players are not interested in Core, then you don't schedule Core tables.
Easy.

5/5 5/55/55/5

godsDMit wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Core tables exacerbate the problem of geek Sudoku in small venues. Exponentially.

No. No it doesn't. It may not work for your venue, but it works just fine for others (like mine).

If the players are interested in Core, then you schedule Core tables. If the players are not interested in Core, then you don't schedule Core tables.
Easy.

and if you have a small venue : and by small i mean 1 or 2 tables, you need to get 10 +- 3 people into Low table, high table, low core, high core.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:


and if you have a small venue : and by small i mean 1 or 2 tables, you need to get 10 +- 3 people into Low table, high table, low core, high core.

And run the risk, of course, that your Normal players might boycott your CORE tables (we'll go with respectfully on this) and your CORE players might be upset being shunted into Normal tables, so they have to be built to be separate with a *slight hint* of miscibility...

4/5

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Unlimited replay kills campaigns. Once you have played a scenario, playing it again is just going through the motions to get "credit". I've even noticed this in Core Campaign, where everyone has already played the scenario and the games seem flatter.

PFS will never be able to keep up with the more prolific players, but to me, quality of game is MUCH more important than quantity. Replay reduces the quality of game for everyone, to accomodate a few players. A better solution is sanctioned APs and modules, or non-PFS play.

Grand Lodge

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:


and if you have a small venue : and by small i mean 1 or 2 tables, you need to get 10 +- 3 people into Low table, high table, low core, high core.
And run the risk, of course, that your Normal players might boycott your CORE tables (we'll go with respectfully on this) and your CORE players might be upset being shunted into Normal tables, so they have to be built to be separate with a *slight hint* of miscibility...

Right, and its doable if the players are willing to work with you.

If the players are gonna boycott about what you are going out of your way to organize for them, then why do you want to organize for them? If they don't like it, they should organize their own events.

5/5 5/55/55/5

godsDMit wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:


and if you have a small venue : and by small i mean 1 or 2 tables, you need to get 10 +- 3 people into Low table, high table, low core, high core.
And run the risk, of course, that your Normal players might boycott your CORE tables (we'll go with respectfully on this) and your CORE players might be upset being shunted into Normal tables, so they have to be built to be separate with a *slight hint* of miscibility...

Right, and its doable if the players are willing to work with you.

If the players are gonna boycott about what you are going out of your way to organize for them, then why do you want to organize for them? If they don't like it, they should organize their own events.

Why would you try to organize things people do not like?

If you only have 1-2 tables even 2-3 people that don't like core makes core nonviable. You then have to balance fourish tables low core, high core, high normal , low normal instead of just high and low. Heck, with a real possibility of having everyone on one table anyone not liking core can put a kibosh on it in a small venue.

Community Manager

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Removed a post. Please don't call the people you're trying to get to game "sheep" or use a real mental illness as hyperbole.

5/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

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Alexander Augunas wrote:

Compton AND Thursty? Now my thread's really a party!

Awaits the inevitable announcement of kitsune genocide in terror.

That's the theme of Monday's Blog. When they announce the focus of season 8 will be the PCs spearheading the extermination of all kitsune.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Brian Lefebvre wrote:


That's the theme of Monday's Blog. When they announce the focus of season 8 will be the PCs spearheading the extermination of all kitsune.

Looks out at a room filled with 70 humans and 2 fox familiars

What kitsune?

The Exchange 5/5

I certainly hope you plan on exempting Venture Captains from that initiative.

Grand Lodge

BigNorseWolf wrote:
godsDMit wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:


and if you have a small venue : and by small i mean 1 or 2 tables, you need to get 10 +- 3 people into Low table, high table, low core, high core.
And run the risk, of course, that your Normal players might boycott your CORE tables (we'll go with respectfully on this) and your CORE players might be upset being shunted into Normal tables, so they have to be built to be separate with a *slight hint* of miscibility...

Right, and its doable if the players are willing to work with you.

If the players are gonna boycott about what you are going out of your way to organize for them, then why do you want to organize for them? If they don't like it, they should organize their own events.

Why would you try to organize things people do not like?

If you only have 1-2 tables even 2-3 people that don't like core makes core nonviable. You then have to balance fourish tables low core, high core, high normal , low normal instead of just high and low. Heck, with a real possibility of having everyone on one table anyone not liking core can put a kibosh on it in a small venue.

Im not suggesting you organize things your players don't like. If they don't like Core, then don't organize Core. Easy as that.

If they do like Core, enough to be ok with playing it anyway, then the problem is likely the way you are organizing it, if Im understanding your posts correctly.

You seem to be using Core as another form of 'tier' as which a game can be played. Don't use it like that. Instead treat the Core campaign as a whole other campaign worth of material to be used.

Basically, when you create your event for people to sign up for, have the table be designated as either Core or RPG, but the table stays that way (unforeseen circumstances aside). The playes are aware when signing up if its a Core table of the scenario or not, so they should know if they can play it, or if they have someone in tier, or not.

5/5 5/55/55/5

godsdmit wrote:

Im not suggesting you organize things your players don't like. If they don't like Core, then don't organize Core. Easy as that.

If they do like Core, enough to be ok with playing it anyway, then the problem is likely the way you are organizing it, if Im understanding your posts correctly.

Its not how i'm organizing it (or well, NOT organizing it. Its not really a good fit for a small venue because...

1) What people from larger venues don't seem to understand is "enough" has to be "all". Otherwise I'm leaving someone out for a few weeks.

2) Core creates problems down the line. I would like to run and people would like to play their characters past level 5. If the new people came in on core they can't help full out a table of level 7's noncore. Who has played what table and has characters available for what levels is confusing enough before you toss core/noncore into the mix.

Quote:
Basically, when you create your event for people to sign up for, have the table be designated as either Core or RPG, but the table stays that way (unforeseen circumstances aside).

Unforseen circumstances changing your plans are almost the norm.

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