Prospective GM looking for advice: Player Count / Mapless Combat


Online Campaigns General Discussion


So here's the sitch: I'm new to PbP and I'd honestly rather hit the ground GMing rather than as a player (why play one character when you can play ALL the characters, right?). I've hit up the stickied guides here, all excellent, and done a little additional reading, but I still have a few issues I want to mull over before I dive into a game. If there are any GMs or even wise players out there who could share a few thoughts I'd be eternally indebted.

1. Optimum Number of Players: From what I've read it seems there's quite some division on this issue - some seem to say recruit high as a buffer for dropouts, others say keep player count low or it'll slow your game to a crawl. In practice, which approach seems to be more effective?

2. Combat: I've looked over a bunch of the recommended mapping tools and honestly they all feel too clunky for me. I know if there was one thing that would really kill my pace it would be having to crank out maps on a regular basis. So, any tips, tricks, or advice for theater of mind style combat? A link to a solid mapless game that I can snoop on would be tops as well.


Six players seems to be the standard. Theatre of the mind combat works nicely, but especially with Pathfinder you should let your players know right away. Also good for you for giving DMing a try.


I've found that six works best for me - as you read, it gives a buffer in case someone drops out, and it also ensures there'll be enough people for good character interactions to happen even if one or two are out for the day. Having more players also actually helps to keep pace up, actually, at least in my experience; it means, especially in times of inter-character interaction, that there's more for characters to respond to at a given time, which keeps people engaged. I wouldn't want to try and coordinate any more than six, but less seems like it doesn't do much to help.

(Plus, in most games, you'll get far more excellent submissions than you can accommodate, whether you go with a small or large party. It's the nature of the beast - there's far more players than GMs. At least with a six man team, it's two more people I can get playing.)

I'm personally very attached to maps; the visual aid helps me a lot, both as a GM and as a player. And as Nohwear said, I'd let your players know right up front if you'll be doing it that way - Pathfinder, for better or worse, focuses heavily on the tactics of combat, and some builds are especially heavy on it. Letting people know what to expect means they won't be disappointed. I would also point out that, with no map to help, your descriptions of fight environments will need to be especially vivid to compensate. Unfortunately, I don't have any good examples of mapless games to point you toward.


For my games, I have found that 5 players is optimum (although 1 game has 6). Depending on the players, it allows for good character interaction as well as interaction with NPCs.

That said, 6 is also a reasonable number.

I agree with GM Rennal. I like maps. As I am running AP, Boxed Set, or module, I have PDF (which I convert to JPG) copies of the maps, and import the current map into Maptools usually. One campaign uses Google drawings because the players asked for it, but I am not fond of that method.

-- david

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I've not experimented with extremely large or small groups, but I've been finding 5-6 to be pretty good.

Regarding maps, are you planning to run Pathfinder or another system? That can make a lot of difference. For instance, I've been running 5E strictly mapless and it's been a breeze. I tried going mapless in Pathfinder, though, and I frequently had to type up a rough map anyway because the system is just so dependent on precise positioning (flanking, the difference between a 5ft step and a 10ft move action, overly picky cover rules, etc). If I were to attempt a mapless Pathfinder game again, I'd be writing up some clear houserules that I would put in the Recruitment thread so people would know that some abilities would work significantly differently. (Though the houserules would have to be so thorough that I'd be scratching my head why I'm not just running another 5E game...)


I've found 5-6 to be the sweet spot.

You will invariably have players drop out-- whether they actively resign or just stop posting with no warning. If you're running a 6-PC party and you lose a PC or two, you can probably just keep running with the remaining 4-5 PCs. If you drop below 4, you'll probably need to recruit replacement players.

You can do theatre of the mind combat, but be sure to make that clear in your recruitment thread. There are many PF feats and options that pretty much require tactical combat in order to work well, and those options are probably best avoided in games without it.

I do use maps. I usually grab the map layer from the PDF that doesn't have the GM notes (room #, secret doors, etc) and plunk it on a shared Google Drawing document.

I use TokenTool from RPTools to create charcter and monster tokens. For PCs, I use the character's icon image. I also color-code the ring around the token: Green for PCs, blue for NPC allies, and red for adversaries.

In those cases where I have to draw a map, I usually use MapTool to draw it, then cut out the map as a JPEG and drop it into a Google Drawing file. Be sure to impose the grid before cutting the image.


Lots of great input, thanks to all of you. I've done a little bit of nosing around in some of your games and it seems that Google Drawing is one of the more popular options. I had a little time to experiment with it today and I'm definitely starting to see some potential. Thankfully as I'm still early in the planning phase I'll plenty of time to make a final decision before starting up a game.


If you're considering Google Drawings, look at Google Slides as well - it doesn't give you quite as many drawing tools, but it has a phone app where Drawings doesn't, to my knowledge. Opening up the option of manipulating a map from phones can prove useful. Plus, if you like, you can keep the entire campaign's maps together in one document on different slides.


I often post the full map of whatever dungeon in the campaign info tab.

Sometimes you need (or players prefer) a map. But I have used descriptive seperations of where action is happening and how players can get from one to the other(climb check, etc) and how long it will take to get there (usually in rounds)....

Simple examples PCs are on a street watching actors on a stage/wagon.
If I do it right I can track where everyone is...

On the street
Number of citizens, mooks killing citizens....

on the stage
PCs start here, actors, mooks chasing and killing said actors.....
Ranges and how PCs can get on the stage.....run jump, stairs..


More points well-made, thanks for the input.

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