Malwing |
I'm currently working on something that came about as a result of realizing that I have a lot of pdfs of technomancers and artificers for Pathfinder. So I wanted to ask around to see if I had them all because I wanted to make tournament style review and poll rounds to sort out fan favorites allowing new customers to better figure out what they would buy.
At the moment they'll come in three divisions. Artificers; classes that create magical objects as a central part of their class features. Tinkerers: Classes that create non-magical objects as a central part of their class features. Technologists: Same as Tinkerers but more of a modern/future slant. This is mostly to make it easier to discover and purchase products taht represent a customer's needs and the division between magic, non-magic, and space age are the more obvious trope clusters.
I'm only looking at things that are up for purchase on Paizo's store, full 20 level base classes and have representing a technomancer or artificer as it's original flavor and goal.
So my questions here are;
1) What is your favorite Technomancer class?
2) What tropes and themes do you expect out of your technomancer?
3) Do you prefer your mechanics to be simple or complex?
Interjection Games |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
1 - Conflict of interest, so no comment
2 - A: "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
OR
B: Doing something wondrous within the limitations of physical laws
OR
C: Only for golem classes, though!
3 - A technology class simply doesn't feel right if the game mechanics equivalent of getting your hands dirty doesn't exist. Nuts, bolts, and modularity galore is an absolute prerequisite.
Malwing |
To clarify and give some examples, here are the things on my list right now. This list is incomplete as I have some pdfs to dig through. This list just represents the things off the top of my mind because they get a lot of consideration or representation at home.
Artificers: Mechamage, Warsmith, Artisan, Artificer, Vanguard, Saboteur, Engineer, Viser, Daevic, Guru, Thaumaturge.
Tinkerers: Tinker, Gadgeteer, Steamwright, Golemoid, Gearhead.
Technologists: Tinker, Gadgeteer (Yes, due to open ended power sources some classes fall into two divisions), Machinesmith, Cyborg, Technician.
Let me know what needs to be on the list and/or arguments for division placement. If you have a favorite from your own company or own design don't be afraid to express it, particularly if it's not on the list yet. I'm working through this list but I would like to shorten it up a bit by getting nominations.
Malwing |
Anything happening with this?
At the moment I've accomplished a half-written article. I had a half-baked idea of running a series of polls to determine a winner but I didn't think I had access to enough people interested to make for interesting poll numbers so changed some stuff to go about it differently. Once I sort that out I'm going to try to get that out there.
Scott_UAT |
So there is famous thread started in 2011 by Cheaply I always found fun for this: "List of Artificer Classes". It sums up a lot of the ones out there.
We've done "Worldshaper" (kinda... transmutation tinkery) in Alt. Path Magic and "Engineer" from Necropunk. We also had an artificer in Legendary Levels but it was a post 20th level prestige class that lended ancient relic tech & magic by powering them with their own life force. (Including superheavy armors).
Baval |
1. The Artisan and the Investigator with the Inventor archtype
Also, the Machinesmith and the Tinker.
2. I want my Inventor/technomancer class to be decidedly NOT magic. If they have a few effects that act like magic, im ok with that, but nothing bugs me more than buying a "technological" class book and finding out they get "3 level 2 inventions at level 4" and theyre all wizard spells "but totally not you guys"
I want to be a wizard with gadgets, not a gadget wizard.
3. It depends, but I do prefer to have freedom to make my own things over having a set of inventions to choose from.
Milo v3 |
1) What is your favorite Technomancer class?
3.5e Artificer, and the 3.5e Homebrew Gramarist.
2) What tropes and themes do you expect out of your technomancer?
Inventiveness and innovation
3) Do you prefer your mechanics to be simple or complex?
Simple or complex is fine as long as I can invent something with the mechanics rather than just being pick "inventions/devices/etc." off a list which .... well doesn't feel like invention at all.
Interjection Games |
1) What is your favorite Technomancer class?
3.5e Artificer, and the 3.5e Homebrew Gramarist.2) What tropes and themes do you expect out of your technomancer?
Inventiveness and innovation3) Do you prefer your mechanics to be simple or complex?
Simple or complex is fine as long as I can invent something with the mechanics rather than just being pick "inventions/devices/etc." off a list which .... well doesn't feel like invention at all.
A question, then. If the list is super huge and you get to pile a bunch of them into a design, does it start to feel like invention?
Milo v3 |
A question, then. If the list is super huge and you get to pile a bunch of them into a design, does it start to feel like invention?
Maybe. I guess to me it's highly dependant on whether the list is components or results. When using gramarie, you have a giant list of potential ways you can modify an object into something else or create an effect, but it's left for you to combine them into whatever result you desire. When using the artificer, you have a giant list of spells which function as a foundation of the different types of effects you could incorporate into an item to produce whatever effect you desire.
I mean... Using 1st level spells and cantrips and a book, I was able to make a computer with infinite memory in Pathfinder. You can't merge effects like that in "most" artificer/technology based classes because you have to be careful about balance and make sure there aren't giant exploits or just players making things that GM's might not know how to handle.
Basically, when you have components and put them together it feels like invention. When you have results, it feels less like invention to me..... Regardless of the fact that the results method is ridiculously easier to balance, add content to, check for exploits and game-breaking, easier on the player-side since you don't have to spend 14 minutes trying to figureout "How do I make x effect", you're character is the inventor not you, so it's abstracted....
Does that clarify my view or just make it more confusing?