The Hellfire Compact (GM Reference)


Hell's Vengeance

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Just picked up book 1 the other day and have read through parts 1 and 2, and i cant wait to start this AP is another month or so!

My party has almost finished all their characters and i think its gunna be a great group. We have:
- CE female Duergar Gingerbread Witch
- LE male Human Court Bard, worshipping Asmodeus
- CE male Half-Orc Antipaladin of Nulgrath
- LE male Human Asmodean Advocate Cleric
- NE male Dwarf Toxicant Alchemist
- NE or CE Human Archery Fighter

Big party, but we have all played together for the last year running Carrion Crown, and instead of stat rolls we are doing 20 point buy. Might still need to beef up encounters but i will likely just use strategy and/or advanced templates when necessary.

This will be my first real time GMing and I'm super pumped! I've already got loads of great ideas from this thread, so thanks everyone!


Two Headed Snake wrote:

Just picked up book 1 the other day and have read through parts 1 and 2, and i cant wait to start this AP is another month or so!

My party has almost finished all their characters and i think its gunna be a great group. We have:
- CE female Duergar Gingerbread Witch
- LE male Human Court Bard, worshipping Asmodeus
- CE male Half-Orc Antipaladin of Nulgrath
- LE male Human Asmodean Advocate Cleric
- NE male Dwarf Toxicant Alchemist
- NE or CE Human Archery Fighter

Big party, but we have all played together for the last year running Carrion Crown, and instead of stat rolls we are doing 20 point buy. Might still need to beef up encounters but i will likely just use strategy and/or advanced templates when necessary.

This will be my first real time GMing and I'm super pumped! I've already got loads of great ideas from this thread, so thanks everyone!

I will try to be nice, offer the player of the Fighter to play a different Full BaB class, like Ranger or something.


KM WolfMaw wrote:
Two Headed Snake wrote:

Just picked up book 1 the other day and have read through parts 1 and 2, and i cant wait to start this AP is another month or so!

My party has almost finished all their characters and i think its gunna be a great group. We have:
- CE female Duergar Gingerbread Witch
- LE male Human Court Bard, worshipping Asmodeus
- CE male Half-Orc Antipaladin of Nulgrath
- LE male Human Asmodean Advocate Cleric
- NE male Dwarf Toxicant Alchemist
- NE or CE Human Archery Fighter

Big party, but we have all played together for the last year running Carrion Crown, and instead of stat rolls we are doing 20 point buy. Might still need to beef up encounters but i will likely just use strategy and/or advanced templates when necessary.

This will be my first real time GMing and I'm super pumped! I've already got loads of great ideas from this thread, so thanks everyone!

I will try to be nice, offer the player of the Fighter to play a different Full BaB class, like Ranger or something.

Whys that?

FWIW he has already flopped between Brawler, Slayer, UnMonk, and Fighter.


Two Headed Snake wrote:
KM WolfMaw wrote:
Two Headed Snake wrote:

Just picked up book 1 the other day and have read through parts 1 and 2, and i cant wait to start this AP is another month or so!

My party has almost finished all their characters and i think its gunna be a great group. We have:
- CE female Duergar Gingerbread Witch
- LE male Human Court Bard, worshipping Asmodeus
- CE male Half-Orc Antipaladin of Nulgrath
- LE male Human Asmodean Advocate Cleric
- NE male Dwarf Toxicant Alchemist
- NE or CE Human Archery Fighter

Big party, but we have all played together for the last year running Carrion Crown, and instead of stat rolls we are doing 20 point buy. Might still need to beef up encounters but i will likely just use strategy and/or advanced templates when necessary.

This will be my first real time GMing and I'm super pumped! I've already got loads of great ideas from this thread, so thanks everyone!

I will try to be nice, offer the player of the Fighter to play a different Full BaB class, like Ranger or something.

Whys that?

FWIW he has already flopped between Brawler, Slayer, UnMonk, and Fighter.

Fighter has a serious lack of agency compared to the 5 others. But maybe that player is merely tagging along, so...

Sovereign Court

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KM WolfMaw wrote:
Fighter has a serious lack of agency compared to the 5 others. But maybe that player is merely tagging along, so...

I don't want to start a fight on the HV boards, but I'll just say that I don't agree with this statement. I've had a lot of players play fighters over the years (with various levels of game mastery and various levels of Paizo book ownership). Please remember that some people like the class as is, with or without the myriad of new archetypes available to fighters these days...

We should always strive to be respectful of people's choices. Moreover a PC's class(es) have nothing to do with agency, as demonstrated by thousands of threads on the Paizo boards since its beginnings.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If the player wants to play a fighter, let 'em play a fighter.

Not the business of anyone not at that table.


Cole Deschain wrote:

If the player wants to play a fighter, let 'em play a fighter.

Not the business of anyone not at that table.

True, as long as they, the other players and the GM are all having fun.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
KM WolfMaw wrote:
Fighter has a serious lack of agency compared to the 5 others. But maybe that player is merely tagging along, so...

I don't want to start a fight on the HV boards, but I'll just say that I don't agree with this statement. I've had a lot of players play fighters over the years (with various levels of game mastery and various levels of Paizo book ownership). Please remember that some people like the class as is, with or without the myriad of new archetypes available to fighters these days...

We should always strive to be respectful of people's choices. Moreover a PC's class(es) have nothing to do with agency, as demonstrated by thousands of threads on the Paizo boards since its beginnings.

I partly agree with the first part.

I will, however, call BS on the second, Fighters have very little agencies outside "GM may I?"... a Tagalong or a begginer might not mind as much.

For what I see of the write up, the party seems focused on avoiding unneccessary melees.

Sovereign Court

Give me your definition of agency. I think we're just not using this word the same way.


He's the least experienced Pathfinder player, but has played with our group for the last 6 months or so, and ran a few 5e games. That said he has a good grasp of the general mechanics, combat flow etc.

I know fighters tend to have minimal, if any, real contributions beyond combat, apart from general rp, but neither him or i are too concerned about that. I would personally prefer a class with a little more flavour, but it is what it is. Never too too hard to write in a new character anyways


Two Headed Snake wrote:

He's the least experienced Pathfinder player, but has played with our group for the last 6 months or so, and ran a few 5e games. That said he has a good grasp of the general mechanics, combat flow etc.

I know fighters tend to have minimal, if any, real contributions beyond combat, apart from general rp, but neither him or i are too concerned about that. I would personally prefer a class with a little more flavour, but it is what it is. Never too too hard to write in a new character anyways

If he has fun without being a problem to the other players or the GM, Kudo to him.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:
Give me your definition of agency. I think we're just not using this word the same way.

I will simply resume:

1) Martials Vs Casters.

2) Fighters vs Skill Monkeys.

I will avoid the flame bait'y stuff.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
KM WolfMaw wrote:

I will simply resume:

1) Martials Vs Casters.

2) Fighters vs Skill Monkeys.

Okay.

What does that have to do with PDK's query?


Fighters and Rogues are also great classes for Multi-classing or dipping into for prestige classes.

It would be foolish to assume that's what they're doing their whole career. :-)

Especially when they haven't even started yet. :-)


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Two Headed Snake wrote:

Just picked up book 1 the other day and have read through parts 1 and 2, and i cant wait to start this AP is another month or so!

Big party, but we have all played together for the last year running Carrion Crown, and instead of stat rolls we are doing 20 point buy. Might still need to beef up encounters but i will likely just use strategy and/or advanced templates when necessary.

This will be my first real time GMing and I'm super pumped! I've already got loads of great ideas from this thread, so thanks everyone!

Have fun! I'm also running with a bigger group (5 to 7) and so far I didn't have to adjust much. Most encounters haven't been too challenging, but that's mostly because there are large time stretches between them. The crown of spears though was a blast.

Also, I don't see a problem with an archery fighter. I think he will do quite great in the first book, as there are many encounters in open spaces. He might struggle in later parts, where combat isn't the focus, but a GM and a group can mostly work around that. Agency doesn't come from classes, but from his character and motives, so I wouldn't be too concerned.


Gratz wrote:
Two Headed Snake wrote:

Just picked up book 1 the other day and have read through parts 1 and 2, and i cant wait to start this AP is another month or so!

Big party, but we have all played together for the last year running Carrion Crown, and instead of stat rolls we are doing 20 point buy. Might still need to beef up encounters but i will likely just use strategy and/or advanced templates when necessary.

This will be my first real time GMing and I'm super pumped! I've already got loads of great ideas from this thread, so thanks everyone!

Have fun! I'm also running with a bigger group (5 to 7) and so far I didn't have to adjust much. Most encounters haven't been too challenging, but that's mostly because there are large time stretches between them. The crown of spears though was a blast.

Also, I don't see a problem with an archery fighter. I think he will do quite great in the first book, as there are many encounters in open spaces. He might struggle in later parts, where combat isn't the focus, but a GM and a group can mostly work around that. Agency doesn't come from classes, but from his character and motives, so I wouldn't be too concerned.

Yeah, multi-classing and characters dying can always open up some new possibilities, haha.

I need to spend some more time reading it over, but is the Court of Spears/Fort Estanzo encounter really that difficult to map out?


Cole Deschain wrote:
KM WolfMaw wrote:

I will simply resume:

1) Martials Vs Casters.

2) Fighters vs Skill Monkeys.

Okay.

What does that have to do with PDK's query?

I won't bother answering his querry on a beaten to the death subject with a tl;dr post.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Then your interest in actually communicating what you mean by "agency" when he appears to be using the word differently is nonexistent? Good to know.


Cole Deschain wrote:
Then your interest in actually communicating what you mean by "agency" when he appears to be using the word differently is nonexistent? Good to know.

Fighters have agency outside "GM May I?" and Roleplay heavy games?


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I still have no idea what you're talking about.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Two Headed Snake wrote:
I need to spend some more time reading it over, but is the Court of Spears/Fort Estanzo encounter really that difficult to map out?

Fort Estanzo was no problem for me. It's a quite easy and straightforward encounter.

The Court of Spears on the other hand can be complicated, because the alarm has been raised, there should be a lot of moving parts, because I found it unplausible that the rebellion would just wait in their quarters. Also my group split up, so the fights were happening all over the place.

The court of spears was quite challenging, but it was a blast to run.

Dark Archive

So my group and I started this AP not too long ago. I'm GM'ing with 6 players (averaging 4-6 a session because of retail work requirements). We're about 2/3 of the way through the 1st book and I'm having a small issue I'm not sure how to address.

The party is as such:

Human unchained Rogue
Tiefling Antipaladin (planning on Hellknight)
Human Cleric of Zon-Kuthon
Fetchling Infernal bloodline Sorcerer
Half-orc Skald
Half-elf Ranger

The problem I'm having is that the Antipaladin and the Sorceror intimidate everything to poo. Half of the encounters just end up being overwhelming terror on the part of the NPCs.

At the tannery, the sorcerer cast charm person on Jabral and intimidated the farmers into pretending they saw nothing. For a majority of the other non-combat encounters (posting decrees, the last call event, the oration) the party just intimidates everyone into submission.

As the GM, is there just a point where I stop allowing this to be successful? To start, I was slightly okay with it because we have 2 brand new players so they can get a feel for role playing and basic combat mechanics but now I worry these 2 intimidating monsters are just going to take over the table and steamroll as much as they can.

Thoughts?


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I don't think you need to stop it from being successful in the short term, and as far as they see right away. I'd suggest remembering that intimidate creates a duration of helpfulness measured in hours. The PC's likely aren't going to be around forever, and then the intimidated NPC becomes more antagonistic than they were before. I'd use this fact to influence the background events. More people they're encountering for the first time start with more hostile attitudes, for example, or start increasing the rebellion tracker when they intimidate people in public.

Another thing to remember is that if they're trying to use intimidate in a combat situation, that simply applies the shaken condition for a number of rounds depending on the HD of the target and how well they rolled. It doesn't stack with itself (if multiple people are trying to intimidate the same NPC) and subsequent checks impose a penalty. It can be a significant debuff at really low levels, but if they're spending a standard action on it then it's probably not something to worry about. As the campaign goes on and the enemies start to have more HD, it will become more and more of a drop in the bucket to enemy stats. Also don't forget that there are innate penalties to intimidate based on size differences. I don't think it matters much in this book, but that will help them naturally get weened off the intimidate skill going forward.

It took me a while, as a GM, to recognize that there's a significant difference between both uses of intimidate and when they should be applied. The one thing I would not do is just arbitratily stop letting it work, though.


KM-Calidrea wrote:

The problem I'm having is that the Antipaladin and the Sorceror intimidate everything to poo. Half of the encounters just end up being overwhelming terror on the part of the NPCs.

At the tannery, the sorcerer cast charm person on Jabral and intimidated the farmers into pretending they saw nothing. For a majority of the other non-combat encounters (posting decrees, the last call event, the oration) the party just intimidates everyone into submission.

As the GM, is there just a point where I stop allowing this to be successful? To start, I was slightly okay with it because we have 2 brand new players so they can get a feel for role playing and basic combat mechanics but now I worry these 2 intimidating monsters are just going to take over the table and steamroll as much as they can.

Thoughts?

These intimidation tactics (an intimidation sorcerer build sounds interesting) seem to me like a good use of roleplaying opportunities. My group did something similar, once they were appointed as local sheriffs, they started branding, torturing and fining the townspeople heavily. These acts don't necessarily require an intimidation check, but still should contribute to a climate of fear and terror in the town. In my game this resulted in the townspeople reacting more violently during riots, but being overall keeping more to themselves and being cowardly.

I didn't mind the PCs using these tactics as I knew, that once this part of the AP was over, they would need to change tactics. Running around and bullying the people of Kantaria or at the royal court in Egorian surely won't work in their favor, so they will have to adapt after a while. I really like the diversity off Hell's Vengeance, especially in bigger groups, as it will give every PC a moment or a situation to shine and play to their strengths.


KM-Calidrea wrote:
The problem I'm having is that the Antipaladin and the Sorceror intimidate everything to poo. Half of the encounters just end up being overwhelming terror on the part of the NPCs.

I'm a bit apprehensive about this as well. Between the Court Bard, Asmodean Advocate, and probably the Antipaladin, I'm excepting lots of good social skill checks and perhaps some f~&#ery on their part. Coupled with that they should also have little problem in combat, I'm unsure if I should just ride it out and see how the party works over the first book, then maybe make adjustments in further books.


Also, I came across the new Martyr Paladin archetype last night, and thought it would be a really awesome thing to use in this campaign. At the very least it's a bard-killer, and I could use one of those ;)
Anyone else looked at this?


Leedwashere wrote:

I don't think you need to stop it from being successful in the short term, and as far as they see right away. I'd suggest remembering that intimidate creates a duration of helpfulness measured in hours. The PC's likely aren't going to be around forever, and then the intimidated NPC becomes more antagonistic than they were before. I'd use this fact to influence the background events. More people they're encountering for the first time start with more hostile attitudes, for example, or start increasing the rebellion tracker when they intimidate people in public.

Another thing to remember is that if they're trying to use intimidate in a combat situation, that simply applies the shaken condition for a number of rounds depending on the HD of the target and how well they rolled. It doesn't stack with itself (if multiple people are trying to intimidate the same NPC) and subsequent checks impose a penalty. It can be a significant debuff at really low levels, but if they're spending a standard action on it then it's probably not something to worry about. As the campaign goes on and the enemies start to have more HD, it will become more and more of a drop in the bucket to enemy stats. Also don't forget that there are innate penalties to intimidate based on size differences. I don't think it matters much in this book, but that will help them naturally get weened off the intimidate skill going forward.

It took me a while, as a GM, to recognize that there's a significant difference between both uses of intimidate and when they should be applied. The one thing I would not do is just arbitratily stop letting it work, though.

Do you equate Intimidating them to humiliating them?

Because that adds a Rebellion point then each time.

In my game, during the Church Square speech: one of my players decided it was time to push cart of burning wood tar into crowd after the speech.
This meant everyone but him had to roll reflex and were burned by fire.
This did provide a good distraction to steal the helmet, but most of party is badly hurt.
We stopped in middle of that. Most failed reflex and might very well die.

I don't know to applaud his evil ways or not.


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

It can vary a bit depending on the context, naturally, but generally I would consider being intimidated in public quite humiliating. (This opinion assumes the out-of-combat use of intimidate, not the combat one. I don't think the combat use is likely to be humiliating.) It becomes a bit fuzzier if it happens in private, mostly depending on the individual in question and how likely they are to complain to other people about it and spreading the news of how these guys are such total jerks.

For the flaming cart, whether I'd applaud them or not depends on whether they pushed it obviously, or if they have plausible deniability that it was a freak accident :P


Leedwashere wrote:

It can vary a bit depending on the context, naturally, but generally I would consider being intimidated in public quite humiliating. (This opinion assumes the out-of-combat use of intimidate, not the combat one. I don't think the combat use is likely to be humiliating.) It becomes a bit fuzzier if it happens in private, mostly depending on the individual in question and how likely they are to complain to other people about it and spreading the news of how these guys are such total jerks.

For the flaming cart, whether I'd applaud them or not depends on whether they pushed it obviously, or if they have plausible deniability that it was a freak accident :P

Some people don't take humiliation of any kind nicely.

Read it as the Flaming Cart also injured other PCs.


Good luck surpassed. No one died. Stopped after speaking with Razelago.


I need to ask something that might be a really stupid question...

Should I (as the GM) and the players be trying to increase or decrease rebellion points? The book says it's something that the PCs don't want the town to have, but everything seems to be geared to increasing the points and it even says at one point that it could be useful to insight a rebellion that's then crushed.

Help, I'm confused!


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Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber

I don't think that's a stupid question at all. It really boils down to what the player's goals are. If they're actively interested in trying to prevent a rebellion, then they'd probably want to keep rebellion points low. The downsides to minimizing the points are that it makes this book take a lot of in-game days to get through (which can be a problem if your players aren't particularly interested in the downtime between events) and it might leave them frustrated that their evil characters are staying reigned in and tame (this may not be the case, you know your players best).

I took a different approach with my play-by-post campaign, making accruing lots of rebellion points the de facto goal, in order to have things happen faster and bring the endgame of the book on quicker. I also removed the three-week restriction to allow this to work properly. Since PbP tends to be a slower format overall, I felt like condensing this part a bit would help keep the momentum up. This is the in-game rationale I used behind this option.

In the end, though, which path you want to take depends on which you think your players will enjoy most. Hope this helps!


Thank you very much for that! That's how I read it the first time and now I've come to do the preparation I was starting to doubt myself.

It is very flexible now I look again, it's just a little confusing. I suspect my players would rather *do* something though so I suspect I'll go with your idea. Thank you!


Rimethorn wrote:

There are two connection points.

The floor map location J1a is the lift to J2 above. It's not clearly labeled as such, but you can see the square in the floor of the platform on the second map.

There's a rope hanging down from J3 on the upper level. It's indicated by the white dot on the forest floor map.

Those are the only two access points specifically designated. Naturally, they're living in trees (or a giant tree "organism", I suppose), so plain old-fashioned climbing is still an option. The climb check DCs for using the rope and climbing the tree without assistance are both 15.

Good luck. I'm still on Part 2. My sleaze-bag PCs are so good at schmoozing the populace I'm having trouble getting enough Rebellion Points accumulated to keep them occupied between events. I think I'll have to find a way to work around the Event Tracker.

Hah, just re-read this now, after 2 sessions in part 2. Including the points the party collected before part 2 even began, and by the end of the second day of week 1, they had 25 bloody points. over 30 by the next day.

I'm also realizing how long this part will take, even with accelerated events. I'm going to start having at least 2 events most days...


Two Headed Snake wrote:
Rimethorn wrote:

There are two connection points.

The floor map location J1a is the lift to J2 above. It's not clearly labeled as such, but you can see the square in the floor of the platform on the second map.

There's a rope hanging down from J3 on the upper level. It's indicated by the white dot on the forest floor map.

Those are the only two access points specifically designated. Naturally, they're living in trees (or a giant tree "organism", I suppose), so plain old-fashioned climbing is still an option. The climb check DCs for using the rope and climbing the tree without assistance are both 15.

Good luck. I'm still on Part 2. My sleaze-bag PCs are so good at schmoozing the populace I'm having trouble getting enough Rebellion Points accumulated to keep them occupied between events. I think I'll have to find a way to work around the Event Tracker.

Hah, just re-read this now, after 2 sessions in part 2. Including the points the party collected before part 2 even began, and by the end of the second day of week 1, they had 25 bloody points. over 30 by the next day.

I'm also realizing how long this part will take, even with accelerated events. I'm going to start having at least 2 events most days...

Guessing no one told them Fex want to still have a city to rule.

Sovereign Court

KM WolfMaw wrote:
Cole Deschain wrote:
Then your interest in actually communicating what you mean by "agency" when he appears to be using the word differently is nonexistent? Good to know.
Fighters have agency outside "GM May I?" and Roleplay heavy games?

Not sure if this addresses your question but for example, for some feat-heavy builds fighter is the best option to lead into the Hellknight PrC.

Sovereign Court

Black_Cat wrote:

I need to ask something that might be a really stupid question...

Should I (as the GM) and the players be trying to increase or decrease rebellion points? The book says it's something that the PCs don't want the town to have, but everything seems to be geared to increasing the points and it even says at one point that it could be useful to insight a rebellion that's then crushed.

Help, I'm confused!

Way I handled Rebellion pts in my game: look at the right hand side on the Rebellion events table. If my players reached that number before the end of the week, I threw 4xAPL Longacre rioters (p.35) at them. During the last week I threw this at them to simulate an organized and angry mob of drunkards:

spoiler on house on Hook Street module:
DRUG-ADDLED RABBLE CR 6
XP 2,400
CN Medium humanoid (troop, human)
Init +3; Senses Perception +15
DEFENSE
AC 18, touch 14, flat-footed 14 (+3 Dex, +1 dodge, +4 natural)
hp 65 (10d8+20)
Fort +5, Ref +12, Will +4
Defensive Abilities troop traits
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft.
Melee troop (3d6+4)
Space 20 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks garbage barrage
STATISTICS
Str 19, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 13, Cha 10
Base Atk +7; CMB +11; CMD 25
Feats Ability Focus (garbage barrage), Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Lightning Reflexes
Skills Intimidate +10, Perception +15, Sense Motive +3
Languages Common
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Garbage Barrage (Ex) The rabble can unleash a fusillade of broken bottles and improvised projectiles as a standard action. This attack takes the form of up to two lines with a range increment of 20 feet. These lines can start from the corner of any square in the troop’s space. All creatures in each of these lines’ areas of effect are hit for 4d4+4 points of bludgeoning damage each (Reflex DC 20 half). The save DC is Dexterity-based, and includes the bonus from the troop’s Ability Focus feat.
Development: When reduced to 0 hit points, the mob disperses, leaving some survivors to flee and others injured or disabled among the slain. You can use the beggar stat block (Pathfinder RPG NPC Codex 256) to represent these individuals. All are aware of the bounty on the PCs’ heads and can reveal the exact location of Moses Greeley’s hideout (area F), telling the PCs that it’s “under the Red Oliphaunt” if intimidated or otherwise coerced.

Using Troops
A troop is something of an abstraction, in that the component creatures that make up the troop are mostly irrelevant; only the troop as a whole matters for the purposes of combat. A troop is similar to a swarm, but is normally composed of Small or Medium creatures. Large groups of Tiny or smaller creatures should use the normal swarm rules.
Troop Subtype: A troop is a collection of creatures that acts as a single creature, similar to a swarm, but typically as part of a military unit. A troop has the characteristics of its type, except as noted here. A troop has a single pool of Hit Dice and hit points, a single initiative modifier, a single speed, and a single Armor Class. A troop makes saving throws as a single creature.
A single troop occupies a 20-foot-by-20-foot square, equal in size to a Gargantuan creature, though the actual size category of the troop is the same as that of the component creatures. The area occupied by a troop is completely shapeable (as a similar spell effect), though the troop must remain in contiguous squares to accurately reflect the teamwork of trained military units. A troop has a reach equal to that of the component creatures based on size or armament. A troop can move through squares occupied by enemies and vice versa without impediment, although the troop provokes an attack of opportunity if it does so. A troop can move through any area large enough for its component creatures.
The exact number of a troop’s component creatures varies, but in general, a troop of Small or Medium creatures consists of approximately 12 to 30 creatures. Larger creatures can form troops, but the area occupied by such a troop should increase proportionally according to the size of the component creatures.
Troop Traits: A troop is not subject to flanking, but it is subject to critical hits and sneak attacks if its component creatures are subject to such attacks. Reducing a troop to 0 hit points or fewer causes it to break up, effectively destroying the troop, though the damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack. A troop is never staggered or reduced to a dying state by damage. Also, a troop cannot be subject to the bull rush, dirty trickAPG, disarm, dragAPG, grapple, repositionAPG, or trip combat maneuvers, except by area effects that include such effects. A troop can grapple an opponent.
A troop is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate and multiple target spells such as haste), though it is affected by spells or effects that target an area or a nonspecific number of creatures (such as fireball or mass hold monster). A troop takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area. If a troop is rendered unconscious by means of nonlethal damage, it disperses and does not reform until its hit points exceed its nonlethal damage.
Troop Attack: Creatures with the troop subtype don’t make standard melee attacks. Instead, they deal automatic damage to any creature within reach or whose space they occupy at the end of their move, with no attack roll needed. A troop’s stat block has “troop” in its Melee entry with no attack bonus given. The amount of damage a troop deals is based on its Hit Dice.


Insane KillMaster wrote:
Two Headed Snake wrote:
Rimethorn wrote:

There are two connection points.

The floor map location J1a is the lift to J2 above. It's not clearly labeled as such, but you can see the square in the floor of the platform on the second map.

There's a rope hanging down from J3 on the upper level. It's indicated by the white dot on the forest floor map.

Those are the only two access points specifically designated. Naturally, they're living in trees (or a giant tree "organism", I suppose), so plain old-fashioned climbing is still an option. The climb check DCs for using the rope and climbing the tree without assistance are both 15.

Good luck. I'm still on Part 2. My sleaze-bag PCs are so good at schmoozing the populace I'm having trouble getting enough Rebellion Points accumulated to keep them occupied between events. I think I'll have to find a way to work around the Event Tracker.

Hah, just re-read this now, after 2 sessions in part 2. Including the points the party collected before part 2 even began, and by the end of the second day of week 1, they had 25 bloody points. over 30 by the next day.

I'm also realizing how long this part will take, even with accelerated events. I'm going to start having at least 2 events most days...

Guessing no one told them Fex want to still have a city to rule.

No that was definitely addressed at least once. Caggan is dead, the 4 junior deputies are dead, and thats about it. Riley Kels is in jail and they have 'temporarily' closed the Last Stand tavern.

One of the players has turned the snipers nest in town square into his apartment, so I'm going to have it raided/trahsed by some upstart townsfolk. They have also started to recruit Thrune loyalists, so one or two of them will be attacked by angry villagers. I'm also going to start having real instances of rebellion, instead of the 'peasants give you dirty looks' that the book seems to imply


Ran the first session yesterday and they managed to get through the whole first part of the first book. It was very RP heavy, but the Fighter seemed to enjoy it anyway! I have a faith that they won't be too heavy-handed, but it's still something in the back of my mind.

One of the characters has decided to semi-befriend the Doctor though, so that will bee interesting to see how it develops!


I'm about to run the court of spears for a group of 5. I'm concerned about Losoni. A Dryad - CR 4, with 2 character levels, + 10 to attributes over the standard dryad. The book keeps it at CR 4, when by my reading and understanding of the CR system this should be a CR 6 (and a strong CR 6 at that). I'm not worried for the players, but if they're fighting a CR 6, they should get the rewards for a CR 6 - not a CR 4.....
Thoughts?


If you're right and it gets a bit tough then maybe have Fex give them an extra reward at the end? I've not run it as yet but it would be interesting to hear if anyone else had issues.


Two Headed Snake wrote:
Insane KillMaster wrote:
Two Headed Snake wrote:
Rimethorn wrote:

There are two connection points.

The floor map location J1a is the lift to J2 above. It's not clearly labeled as such, but you can see the square in the floor of the platform on the second map.

There's a rope hanging down from J3 on the upper level. It's indicated by the white dot on the forest floor map.

Those are the only two access points specifically designated. Naturally, they're living in trees (or a giant tree "organism", I suppose), so plain old-fashioned climbing is still an option. The climb check DCs for using the rope and climbing the tree without assistance are both 15.

Good luck. I'm still on Part 2. My sleaze-bag PCs are so good at schmoozing the populace I'm having trouble getting enough Rebellion Points accumulated to keep them occupied between events. I think I'll have to find a way to work around the Event Tracker.

Hah, just re-read this now, after 2 sessions in part 2. Including the points the party collected before part 2 even began, and by the end of the second day of week 1, they had 25 bloody points. over 30 by the next day.

I'm also realizing how long this part will take, even with accelerated events. I'm going to start having at least 2 events most days...

Guessing no one told them Fex want to still have a city to rule.

No that was definitely addressed at least once. Caggan is dead, the 4 junior deputies are dead, and thats about it. Riley Kels is in jail and they have 'temporarily' closed the Last Stand tavern.

One of the players has turned the snipers nest in town square into his apartment, so I'm going to have it raided/trahsed by some upstart townsfolk. They have also started to recruit Thrune loyalists, so one or two of them will be attacked by angry villagers. I'm also going to start having real instances of rebellion, instead of the 'peasants give you dirty looks' that the book seems to imply

PC debating hiring minions.

Wow, so far, (just captured Caggan and put him in jail/that thing out front. They killed one barmaid. Guess I'll see if they close Tavern and release Riley (he is promised it will just be one night in jail).


Starbuck_II wrote:
Two Headed Snake wrote:
Insane KillMaster wrote:
Two Headed Snake wrote:
Rimethorn wrote:

There are two connection points.

The floor map location J1a is the lift to J2 above. It's not clearly labeled as such, but you can see the square in the floor of the platform on the second map.

There's a rope hanging down from J3 on the upper level. It's indicated by the white dot on the forest floor map.

Those are the only two access points specifically designated. Naturally, they're living in trees (or a giant tree "organism", I suppose), so plain old-fashioned climbing is still an option. The climb check DCs for using the rope and climbing the tree without assistance are both 15.

Good luck. I'm still on Part 2. My sleaze-bag PCs are so good at schmoozing the populace I'm having trouble getting enough Rebellion Points accumulated to keep them occupied between events. I think I'll have to find a way to work around the Event Tracker.

Hah, just re-read this now, after 2 sessions in part 2. Including the points the party collected before part 2 even began, and by the end of the second day of week 1, they had 25 bloody points. over 30 by the next day.

I'm also realizing how long this part will take, even with accelerated events. I'm going to start having at least 2 events most days...

Guessing no one told them Fex want to still have a city to rule.

No that was definitely addressed at least once. Caggan is dead, the 4 junior deputies are dead, and thats about it. Riley Kels is in jail and they have 'temporarily' closed the Last Stand tavern.

One of the players has turned the snipers nest in town square into his apartment, so I'm going to have it raided/trahsed by some upstart townsfolk. They have also started to recruit Thrune loyalists, so one or two of them will be attacked by angry villagers. I'm also going to start having real instances of rebellion, instead of the 'peasants give you dirty looks' that the book seems to imply

PC debating...

oh Riley met with such a sad, pathetic fate in my game.


Drew Post 387 wrote:

I'm about to run the court of spears for a group of 5. I'm concerned about Losoni. A Dryad - CR 4, with 2 character levels, + 10 to attributes over the standard dryad. The book keeps it at CR 4, when by my reading and understanding of the CR system this should be a CR 6 (and a strong CR 6 at that). I'm not worried for the players, but if they're fighting a CR 6, they should get the rewards for a CR 6 - not a CR 4.....

Thoughts?

I run for a group of 6 players- we did the Court of Spears battle about 3/4 weeks ago now. I didn't have Losoni attack them until they entered his favorite area. Just prior to this they were being harried by archers periodically, and then got pincer'd by the Magus and hound archon. Nearly killed the bow fighter, and then the dryad nearly got a couple of them. I had him bouncing between trees/walls and clubbing them good. Ended up killing the Witch during the combat with the Angel Knight, and nearly killed the anti-paladin, too.

I was also cranking up the enemies stats a bit, mostly HP, and in some cases applied feat tax rules to them. Unless everyone is your group is fairly optimized, consider nerfing some enemies a bit, or just don't go full kill mode on them haha

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

I just can't wait to start interrogating townsfolk in a British Accent: "WHERE is the Rebel Base?"

Too bad there's no princess to grow tired of asking that question to...


I am English so a lot of stuff is done with that accent ;)


grandpoobah wrote:

I just can't wait to start interrogating townsfolk in a British Accent: "WHERE is the Rebel Base?"

Too bad there's no princess to grow tired of asking that question to...

I doubt you will be able to do that right from the start.

... wait, are you a player? This is a GM "only" thread.

Shadow Lodge

KM WolfMaw wrote:
... wait, are you a player? This is a GM "only" thread.

Aw, don't be like that.


I started GMing this AP about a month ago, running four people through it (including my wife), everyone rolled stats and got some pretty good combos, so I think that will help keep the combats from getting too tough.

Party is a NE human spiritualist (with an Anger phantom), a CE dwarf unchained barbarian, a LE raksasha-blood tiefling slayer and a NE gnome alchemist. Pretty good combination of combat and skills, the fights are challenging, but not impossible, no one has died, though the slayer and barbarian have been knocked out a couple of times (barbarian dropped unconscious by combo of lethal and non-lethal by the wereboar, slayer dropped to -3 by the assassin vine).

RP-wise, the group has surprised me by tracking pretty closely to what the AP assumes they will do. They hit the tannery, but didn't kill anyone out-right (left the tanner stable at -1 hp), they put Craggan in the stocks, they interrogated the bard, then cut off four of his fingers and let him go so he could return as the "Angel Knight later. I did insert another fight at the tannery when Razelago let them know that an illegal assembly of rebellious citizens was being held there. They threw the tanner in the stocks, then, when ordered to make an example, performed a public excrutiation and execution a la William Wallace in "Braveheart" on him. We stopped our last session with them dragging the "Angel Knight" off her horse, only to discover that it's really the six-fingered bard that they released last week. They quickly included him in the public execution phase of the day's activities and warned the citizens that the fate of the tanner and the bard was only a small taste of what would happen if they allowed this rebellion nonsense to continue....

I would highly suggest letting them use Mr. Zoags as a resource for purchasing stuff, selling salvaged items for gold or credit, and passing on information to help drive the plot. I have him visit the jail (where they are staying) every 3 days or so. He is an excellent opportunity to role-play the iconic shifty, shady wheeler-dealer that has his fingers in all kinds of crooked dealings (I model him on the smuggler 'Badger' from the Firefly series, right down to the bowler hat and Irish accent).

So far, this is a great AP, my players (and I) are having a blast. I have been surprised about how much restraint the evil characters are using in their dealings with the town. They clearly want to murder some people for insulting them or being unfriendly, but realize that the Archbaron wants living subjects to pay taxes, not a bunch of corpses laying around and burned-out buildings. All in all, a really great start to an AP, can't wait to see how it develops....


Hi GM's

I'm running this AP at the moment and we are nearly at the end of the first book, great fun and the players are having a blast.

I did make some maps for the first book, which I have been adding to my Deviant Art page, though I'm not the greatest map person around.

https://vornn.deviantart.com

have fun

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