For Queen & Empire (GM Reference)


Hell's Vengeance

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The purpose of this thread is to clarify questions arising in this adventure. This is a SPOILER filled zone, do not venture further if you do not wish the adventure to be spoiled for you, and spoiler tags are not required when posting here.

This thread is a GM Reference thread for Part 4 of the Hell's Vengeance Adventure Path. Links for the individual threads for each part are as follows:

Dark Archive

since you reach 11th level in this one will there be talk about character options for liches and maybe other evil ideas like worms that walk?

Paizo Employee Senior Developer

brad2411 wrote:
since you reach 11th level in this one will there be talk about character options for liches and maybe other evil ideas like worms that walk?

No, unfortunately not. That's something that individual GMs will have to decide for their own campaigns, especially since those are not really designed as player options.

Dark Archive

Rob McCreary wrote:
brad2411 wrote:
since you reach 11th level in this one will there be talk about character options for liches and maybe other evil ideas like worms that walk?
No, unfortunately not. That's something that individual GMs will have to decide for their own campaigns, especially since those are not really designed as player options.

Yeah I figured that but figured I'd ask thanks for the Response Rob. I am eagerly awaiting the rest of this AP.


Will Her Infernal Majestrix Abrogail Thrune II get a stat block in this?


Unless she needs to be fought, why would you waste a page or so on a statblock?


thenovalord wrote:
Unless she needs to be fought, why would you waste a page or so on a statblock?

Plenty of allies get one, and a s***load of people want to know.


Just more pages, IMO, of solo GM fun and not stuff for the players to use.


thenovalord wrote:
Just more pages, IMO, of solo GM fun and not stuff for the players to use.

* What her bloodline is?

* Who she worship (if not Asmodeus)?

* Her personality.

* PCs are Murder Hobos...

* Close relatives if any (Grand Fathers, Grand Mothers, Father, Mother, siblings, etc).

* Is she single?

* etc


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Insane KillMaster wrote:
Will Her Infernal Majestrix Abrogail Thrune II get a stat block in this?

I just double checked, and in the "Continuing the Adventure" section of Hells Rebels, they said that the Queen would be stated up in this volume. So hopefully that's still the plan.


@insane

Yep all good stuff. NON STAT statblocks is what is needed. No one needs to know what 0 level spells she knows!


I think having her stats is relevant so endgame Hell's Rebels parties can put her head on a pike.


Axial wrote:
I think having her stats is relevant so endgame Hell's Rebels parties can put her head on a pike.

Or anyone in Hell's Vengeance wanting to take her place.

... the list can go on and on...


Insane KillMaster wrote:
Axial wrote:
I think having her stats is relevant so endgame Hell's Rebels parties can put her head on a pike.

Or anyone in Hell's Vengeance wanting to take her place.

... the list can go on and on...

It might be too late for that. Don't the players sign a contract in part III that binds their minds to House Thrune?


Axial wrote:
Insane KillMaster wrote:
Axial wrote:
I think having her stats is relevant so endgame Hell's Rebels parties can put her head on a pike.

Or anyone in Hell's Vengeance wanting to take her place.

... the list can go on and on...

It might be too late for that. Don't the players sign a contract in part III that binds their minds to House Thrune?

1) They might already be a part of House Thrune, and backstabbing is common.

2) the next contract after that is pledging their souls to Asmodeus.


They're not required to. There's just benefits to doing so.

(And it helps significantly with earning the Queen's trust, or what approximates her trust.)

Paizo Employee Senior Developer

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Insane KillMaster wrote:
Will Her Infernal Majestrix Abrogail Thrune II get a stat block in this?

Yes she will!


Rob McCreary wrote:
Insane KillMaster wrote:
Will Her Infernal Majestrix Abrogail Thrune II get a stat block in this?
Yes she will!

Thanks for the quick answer.

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

LEVISVIA VASVION p. 54

Spoiler:
she has a scarlet and blue sphere ioun stone which is supposed to have a skill associated with it.
what is that skill supposed to be?

Paizo Employee Senior Developer

chopswil wrote:

LEVISVIA VASVION p. 54

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Intimidate.
Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

DAEMON, LAPSUDAEMON p. 88

incorrect XP for given CR of 14
XP CR: Computed: 38400 Stat Block: 102400


What are the benefits of becoming a Thrune Bound Agent?


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Axial wrote:
What are the benefits of becoming a Thrune Bound Agent?

Choice of the following:

Blackguard: Comparable to a low-grade Smite effect
Darkness: The 'See in Darkness' Universal Monster Ability & the Shadowdancer's 'Summon Shadow' ability-ish
Devil Hide: Get a Natural Armor permanent improvement comparable to Medium Armor
Fiendish: pretty much add the Fiendish simple Template without changing creature type
Fire: Get a handful of Fire spells as daily spell-like-abilities
Pride: Get a +2 Inherent Bonus to one Ability Score
Slavery: Get a 100% summon one a day of a bound fiend dependent upon your alignment; if LE, it's a devil, if NE it's a Daemon, if CE it's a Demon. It's always the same Fiend, although I suppose if your alignment changed, so might the fiend.
Trickery: Get a handful of Illusions as daily spell-like-abilities
Tyranny: Get a handful of Charm/compulsion spells as daily spell-like-abilities


And...... nothing about flirting with the Queen.

... nothing about her having a "family" (parents, siblings) or not.


Axial wrote:
What are the benefits of becoming a Thrune Bound Agent?

Infernal Boons:

Infernal boons
The contract that binds the PCs to Queen Abrogail and Asmodeus sequesters the PCs’ souls, but it also grants each PC one of the following infernal boons of the PC’s choice once the contract is signed. Once the choice is made, it cannot be changed.

Blackguard: The recipient gains a +1 profane bonus on all attack rolls and the ability to focus the might of Hell into his armor and weapons. As a standard action, the recipient can give a touched suit of armor the good outsider-defiant armor special ability or a touched weapon the unholy weapon special ability. This ability can be used a total of three times per day, in any combination, and the effects last for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the recipient’s character level.

Darkness: The recipient gains the see in darkness universal monster ability and the ability to detach his shadow once per day and animate it as a greater shadow (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 245). The shadow’s alignment matches that of the recipient, and it follows the recipient’s orders and can communicate intelligibly with the recipient. The shadow cannot be turned or commanded, and it cannot create spawn. The shadow remains for up to 1 hour or until slain or dismissed by the recipient.

Devil Hide: The recipient’s skin grows tough and scaly, granting him a +4 natural armor bonus or increasing his existing natural armor bonus by 4.

Fiendish: The recipient is infused with hellish vigor, gaining darkvision 60 feet, cold resistance 15, fire resistance 15, and DR 10/good. In addition, once per day as a swift action the recipient can smite good, adding his Charisma bonus (if any) to attack rolls and adding his character level to all damage rolls against good foes. The smite good effect remains until the target of the smite is dead or the recipient rests.

Fire: The recipient can cast the following spells as spell-like abilities (the caster level for this ability is equal to the recipient’s character level): at will—burning hands, 3/day—fireball, 1/day—flame strike.

Pride: The recipient gains a +2 inherent bonus to one ability score.

Slavery: The recipient can summon an enslaved fiend once per day as per the summon universal monster ability with a 100% chance of success (the caster level for this ability is equal to the recipient’s character level). The type of fiend summoned is determined by the recipient’s alignment: lawful evil—bone devil (Bestiary 74); neutral evil—leukodaemon (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 2 68), or chaotic evil—vrock (Bestiary 69). Summoned creatures automatically return whence they came after 1 hour. A nonevil character gains no benefit from this boon.

Trickery: The recipient can use the following spells as spell-like abilities (the caster level for this ability is equal to the recipient’s character level): at will— vanish, 3/day—displacement, 1/day—mirage arcana.

Tyranny: The recipient can use the following spells as spell-like abilities (the caster level for this ability is equal to the recipient’s character level): at will— command, 3/day—suggestion, 1/day—hold monster.


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If you have the Rivals Guide you might want to incorporate the Queen's Hands band of Thrune agents as possible rivals, allies, or background in this adventure. Although I think they were level 13 or 14.


Regarding Baroness Gellintha's Soiree and clothing, how far do the Sleeves of Many Garments go into providing the circumstance bonuses? Do the outfits also come with the accesorizing jewelry, or are the PCs to obtain the jewelry independently of the magical sleeves?


IMO having Levisia really be behind the deaths of her husbands would be more in character, imo. Neutral evil social climbing noble? She would have an extended contract with the Red Mantis.

Paizo Employee Senior Developer, Starfinder Team

Tuvarkz wrote:
Regarding Baroness Gellintha's Soiree and clothing, how far do the Sleeves of Many Garments go into providing the circumstance bonuses? Do the outfits also come with the accesorizing jewelry, or are the PCs to obtain the jewelry independently of the magical sleeves?

Sleeves of many garments create an illusion of clothing. Jewelry is an accessory and must be purchased separately (Just like you can buy a noble's outfit, but you also need to buy additional jewelry to get the full effect).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Tammy isn't taking down the Bellflower Network, any suggestions for something else to use.


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A cell of Desna worshippers? They lead a resistance movement in Nidal, wouldn't be surprised to see them crop up in Cheliax too.

Edit: And pretty sure Desna's an illegal religion in Cheliax anyways.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I can work with that. Maybe a Milani cell.

Great idea, as always Zhangar. :-)


I have to say, I am a little disappointed with the final combat encounters in this book.

In The Hellfire Compact, you face The Angel Knight, who has been an enemy for the entire book.

In Wrath of Thrune, you meet Oppian Nevilindor in Event 1, and can spend time getting to know him.

In The Inferno Gate, you fight Archbaron Fex! He's been your ally for three books!

And then you get here, and the final combat is versus an Asmodean Cleric you've never heard of before, and two ice devils that flee once the cleric is defeated.

That, to me, is not only boring, but anticlimactic.

One of my player's has a Chelish noble who has a sister in the Church of Asmodeus, so I'm replacing the cleric with her, and putting her into earlier encounters (like the parties) to give her that campaign presence. I would highly recommend putting that NPC into the campaign whenever you can.

Silver Crusade

I haven't played this and don't intend to (I don't like playing evil people and I want lovely Queen Abby to be more distant from my PCs) but there are two pictures in this book which are among the best I have seen, so congrats Paizo people who put it together.

- The pic of teenage Queen Abby drowning her uncle.

- The pic of Emil and Zelhara dressed up at the party.

So good. Any chance some Paizo person can put one up on this site? I want it as a desktop background.


I'm guessing you don't have the pdf? If you do you can take a screen shot to capture the image as a separate file.


So... anyone got any ideas what Paraduke Sethic got arrested for and why he was released? I know it's deliberately vague so after ideas and suggestions to get some creative juices flowing =)


Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Black_Cat wrote:
So... anyone got any ideas what Paraduke Sethic got arrested for and why he was released? I know it's deliberately vague so after ideas and suggestions to get some creative juices flowing =)

Sethic pinged so many things the Order of the Scourge despises that it could be any reason.

First, he undoubtedly formed an organized crime ring around himself which, all on its own, may have brought the Scourge's attention. And the fact that he was so successful navigating both legal and illegal activities leads to a second point ...

He was promoted to noble status by the Queen. The Scourge have a taste for corrupt nobles, especially those rising in power faster than an inspection indicates they should. After becoming a Paraduke, there would be little doubt that Sethic magnified his ambitions, bending and breaking laws as he maneuvered against competitors in ploys to gain even more power.

Third, the Scourge targets assassins and their organizations, and one of Sethic's main activities was disposing bodies via his delicious razorbacks. It seems inevitable that assassins of varied sorts would have come to Sethic for his service, but also that Sethic ran a murder business himself.

The interesting thing to consider is that the Scourge prefer treating apprehended criminals to public displays to make their message clear. Yet, Sethic was hauled off for "undisclosed crimes" and was a "guest" of the Order instead, not mention that he was eventually released. The implication is that the Order came to the end of Sethic's usefulness as an interrogated prisoner and decided that freeing him was somehow reasonable.

So, releasing him suggests a few things -- not the least of which is that he still has the Queen's ear to whatever degree, a fact that makes him prominent in the adventure. Perhaps, unwittingly or not, he's now a pawn in a larger struggle that involves a disguised tension between the Scourge and the Queen herself. The Scourge may not be done with Sethic yet.


Has anyone has their group completely and utterly botch part 2? Like we're talking found, intercepted and brutally murdered the Barrister before obtaining any information, and then destroying her body during a failed Reincarnation that caused a Nabasu demon to spawn in her corpse instead because her soul was unwilling to return.

They have no other leads, and the barkeep at Clerk's Cloister doesn't know anything useful beyond some info on the ex-Barrister. Part of me just wants to skip part 2 entirely and go straight to the Hellfire Ball (bumped it until just before part 3) because they dont deserve a second chance at taking down the Network

Shadow Lodge

My party used their halfling necromancer character as bait and sent them to be “rescued” by the Bellflowers. When the halfling pc was taken inside they assaulted the building. The wizard, the cleric, and the knight of the sepulcher all wound up dying because they chased a rogue down the tunnel with the brawler waiting one at a time rather than regrouping to move forward.

The necromancer and the gun tank both fled to get the hellknights after the other three died in the tunnel with the brawler. At that point I had the Bellflowers begin to teleport away themselves, the crop, and the corpses. When the two remaining PCs returned the house was abandoned and empty of all valuables. The Bellflowers even stole the corpses of the dead PCs so they couldn’t be questioned or raised without huge expense.

The party barely got the notice points to meet the queen but they will survive without the extra xp since I don’t use xp in my game.


Midnight Anarch wrote:
Black_Cat wrote:
So... anyone got any ideas what Paraduke Sethic got arrested for and why he was released? I know it's deliberately vague so after ideas and suggestions to get some creative juices flowing =)

Sethic pinged so many things the Order of the Scourge despises that it could be any reason.

First, he undoubtedly formed an organized crime ring around himself which, all on its own, may have brought the Scourge's attention. And the fact that he was so successful navigating both legal and illegal activities leads to a second point ...

He was promoted to noble status by the Queen. The Scourge have a taste for corrupt nobles, especially those rising in power faster than an inspection indicates they should. After becoming a Paraduke, there would be little doubt that Sethic magnified his ambitions, bending and breaking laws as he maneuvered against competitors in ploys to gain even more power.

Third, the Scourge targets assassins and their organizations, and one of Sethic's main activities was disposing bodies via his delicious razorbacks. It seems inevitable that assassins of varied sorts would have come to Sethic for his service, but also that Sethic ran a murder business himself.

The interesting thing to consider is that the Scourge prefer treating apprehended criminals to public displays to make their message clear. Yet, Sethic was hauled off for "undisclosed crimes" and was a "guest" of the Order instead, not mention that he was eventually released. The implication is that the Order came to the end of Sethic's usefulness as an interrogated prisoner and decided that freeing him was somehow reasonable.

So, releasing him suggests a few things -- not the least of which is that he still has the Queen's ear to whatever degree, a fact that makes him prominent in the adventure. Perhaps, unwittingly or not, he's now a pawn in a larger struggle that involves a disguised tension between the Scourge and the Queen herself. The Scourge may not be done with Sethic yet.

You rock, thank you!


Quath wrote:

My party used their halfling necromancer character as bait and sent them to be “rescued” by the Bellflowers. When the halfling pc was taken inside they assaulted the building. The wizard, the cleric, and the knight of the sepulcher all wound up dying because they chased a rogue down the tunnel with the brawler waiting one at a time rather than regrouping to move forward.

The necromancer and the gun tank both fled to get the hellknights after the other three died in the tunnel with the brawler. At that point I had the Bellflowers begin to teleport away themselves, the crop, and the corpses. When the two remaining PCs returned the house was abandoned and empty of all valuables. The Bellflowers even stole the corpses of the dead PCs so they couldn’t be questioned or raised without huge expense.

The party barely got the notice points to meet the queen but they will survive without the extra xp since I don’t use xp in my game.

damn that's even more harsh than my party. 3 deaths?! jeeez. I didn't even think the combats would be much to speak of for my party. they did end up having their leveling delayed though


Pathfinder Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Regarding the Wings of Legend encounter ...

First, truly disappointing that there is no art for the mythic and legendary griffon that served as Iomedae's own steed. How did this get passed over? This tragic oversight is worsened somewhat further in that there is no art, either, for Ironwing's current battle-mate, Vlasko the Fang.

Second, regarding Vlasko, his tactics reads, "When Kazi swoops in for an attack, Vlasko attacks foes with his scimitar using Death From Above and Vital Strike."

This is possible? I was under the impression that Vital Strike can't be combined with a charge action? Is there something I'm missing about either Ironwing or Vlasko that makes this possible?


Midnight Anarch wrote:

Regarding the Wings of Legend encounter ...

First, truly disappointing that there is no art for the mythic and legendary griffon that served as Iomedae's own steed. How did this get passed over? This tragic oversight is worsened somewhat further in that there is no art, either, for Ironwing's current battle-mate, Vlasko the Fang.

Second, regarding Vlasko, his tactics reads, "When Kazi swoops in for an attack, Vlasko attacks foes with his scimitar using Death From Above and Vital Strike."

This is possible? I was under the impression that Vital Strike can't be combined with a charge action? Is there something I'm missing about either Ironwing or Vlasko that makes this possible?

There is a unique mini in the HV pawn collection, but it's not very cool. I was also disappointed in the lack of artwork, excluding the cover.

You're right in that VS can't be used on a charge, so idk what they were talking about. Maybe they meant as applicable? Ie. first round, charges with Ironwing Kazi using Death from Above, then Vital Strike on subsequent turns?

Silver Crusade

Mr. Thope's stat block lists his HP as 120 / 100 when not raging. By my calculations it should be 105 / 85:

(10 * 6.5) + 20 = 85

Where are those extra 15 HP coming from? Even if I calculate his HP as a PC it only comes out to 110 / 90.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Midnight Anarch wrote:

Regarding the Wings of Legend encounter ...

First, truly disappointing that there is no art for the mythic and legendary griffon that served as Iomedae's own steed. How did this get passed over? This tragic oversight is worsened somewhat further in that there is no art, either, for Ironwing's current battle-mate, Vlasko the Fang.

Second, regarding Vlasko, his tactics reads, "When Kazi swoops in for an attack, Vlasko attacks foes with his scimitar using Death From Above and Vital Strike."

This is possible? I was under the impression that Vital Strike can't be combined with a charge action? Is there something I'm missing about either Ironwing or Vlasko that makes this possible?

They're on the cover. :-)

Dark Archive

I'm changing this book more than I did the others. Sethic & Vasvion initial "events" were botched by the party, allowing her to know about the planned attempt on Nicolo and also failing to intercept Sethic's money. So now the two potential "allies" are fast becoming the villains of book4 for my team.

They will still investigate the bellflower network and need to procure a sacrifice later but they are so angry/excited about the two rival nobles that I think I'm going to let that continue to escalate and see where it takes us.


Primary Change I Added:

I reworked the most of the last 4 encounters.

I had the Duke's betrayal occur with an Aboleth engineer, who retreated to the dark tapestry upon the dukes defeat.

The Church of asmodeus "deep state" guy was next, Full encounter. I also made the devils summoned rather than called and it turned into a game of peekaboo.

The Paladins attacked in the woods.

Finally, I am having the Griphon and crew attack at the end. And am having the Druid be a "positive energy ghost" of Iomedae/the angelic form of the Angel Knight from Book 1 (who i am using as a recurring antagonist).

Silver Crusade

My party aligned with Sethic, but are having real reservations about event 2, Murder For Hire. As predicted, they initially had qualms about murder because most of them are LE. But after Sethic spun his treason lie they decided "we'll only kill him if we can prove he's a traitor" and I think they might actually just try to bring him in instead of killing him. Since the traitor story was false, there is no evidence. If they don't kill him, does that end their alliance with Sethic? Thoughts on how to handle this?


There is a quid pro quo with the assassination. For all intents and purposes the PC's NEED someone to be their way into the nobility. Them not killing the fool should be fine, so long as they have ruined him financially.

Plus him being outed as a Diabolist (iirc) should be enough for any true Chelaxian to see him to the afterlife. He isn't loyal to the Queen, he is loyal to the outsiders gifting him power and himself.

Silver Crusade

I don't think that's true. My reading is that Sethic is more loyal to the Queen and House Thrune than the Archcountess is.

Spoiler:

There are many rumors regarding Sethic’s arrest, imprisonment, and torture by the Order of the Scourge, but the most compelling involves his relationship with Queen Abrogail. The paraduke is a patriotic man, and when granted his title, he swore never to lie to his queen. Sethic supposedly confessed to some terrible crime during a conversation with the queen, and she ordered his arrest. Interestingly, she also ordered his release.

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