PFS and Saving Throw Deaths


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Liberty's Edge

Though I don't have nearly the extent of gaming experience of many PFS'ers, I've been playing for a few years now. I thought I'd share a few observations and ask if it matched what others have seen.

I have had 3 PC's die and been in 2 mission failures without dying. I've seen at least 4 other individual character deaths, 2 more mission failures, and a TPK.

A) One of those was a supremely (un)lucky raging, power attacking, barbarian, critical with a great axe. Sorry, but I'm just not sure you can possibly build a 1st or 2nd level character that will survive almost 40 points of damage in one hit.
B) Another was a party of all melee martial characters and a couple of encounters pretty much required ranged weapon or spells.
C) Twice low level groups decided to play up out of tier (back when it was still allowed) and got the crap kicked out of them. As could be expected.
D) One or maybe even two, lack of non-combat skills was the major contributor.
E) Only one time has it been because the group couldn't hit often enough and do enough damage to win.
F) The vast majority of the time the cause has been a failed saving throw. Failed both saves vs phantasmal killer. Failed save vs. poison. Barbarian failed save vs confusion and killed the cleric. Sorcerer failed save vs. feeblemind and was virtually helpless. Failed multiple reflex saves and took full AoE damage. Etc…

Does this match up with your experiences?

I know one player that has complained about how hard PFS is and how he keeps having PC's die. But when he gives any details, almost all of them were a failed will save. Yet he always dumps (or at least doesn't raise) wisdom on classes with a bad will save and rarely buys any magic to help with his will save. Seems to be almost a trend.

Obviously, everyone is free to build their PC however they want. Having said that, I would suggest (strongly) that every player give some serious consideration to their saving throws.
How can you get them higher? If they aren't high, which isn't uncommon, what are you going to do to make up for that? Buy the max cloak of resistance. Cast owl's wisdom. Ring of resist energy. UMD wand of protection from evil. Etc…
There are a lot of possibilities, but doing nothing will catch up with you eventually. Probably sooner than you expect.

1/5

The people who pay attention to posts like this will tend to have done the things they need to do to prop up their character's weak saves. The people who routinely lose PC's in PFS play are either very new or don't read forums like this.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

So far I've only seen people die because NPCs did unusually much damage. Sniper on a tower with favored enemy (you), fastbombing alchemist, harpy archers buffed by a high-level bard.

In the case of the alchemist saving throws played a role (he had a buddy with a wand of fireball), but that was just brutal and afterwards we discovered we could've played down but miscalculated.

Dataphiles 3/5

Most of the deaths I've seen were more akin to your raging barbarian example. In fact as a GM both of the kills that happened on my tables were due to critical hits.

Silver Crusade

Both of my character deaths were due to crits, one from a shocking grasp magus (everyone knows the one) and the other from a power attacking bearded devil (glaives are x3, yo). Both times, I was at full HP.

Only kill I have is with a large earth elemental, and it was just cause I rolled max damage and the poor guy was barely above 0 to begin with.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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AAO's and crits, yeah.

Most character deaths tend to be tied to heavy hitting large(or bigger) melee enemies(earth elementals, etc) and swarms. There's just no escaping from them without teleportation magic. Then there's stat damage/drain.

That said, I've played with a lot of parties who hem and haw in combat instead of focus firing. Yeah, I can take a few solid hits but 2 rounds of straight out slugging mano-y-mano with a boss is going to be murder.

Also, grapple + constrict.

Me, I'd love to play a str ninja but there's just too much evidence going against them.

4/5

My favorite kill as a GM remains something where the player successfully saved, but showed the glory of that d6 hit die. maximized fireball, quickened magic missile. Yes, he made the save vs the fireball. He was level 11 or 12, I think. That was earlier this month.

#2 was terrible tactics and allowing a spellcasting enemy to buff for 5 rounds, then open the door and deal with SO MUCH LIGHTNING BOLT. It didn't defensively cast because it had 32 AC and Displacement up vs a level 7 party, along with decent HP and Expeditious Retreat up to allow for strategic movement.

As a player, I've managed to avoid death with my handy-dandy Talisman of Life's Breath multiple times. It is an excellent investment. The other part of my defense is to not be near the danger. My level 6 archer (hunter 5/medium 1) escaped near-certain death by use of Planar Focus: Earth and 5' burrowing when playing up in a Season 5.

Ultimately, survival is a choice. After taking a few lessons from the school of hard knocks in that season 5, I spent most of my gold upgrading AC pieces so I'm less likely to get wrecked in the future. I see a few folks who haven't quite learned that lesson. They're kind of silly and I love seeing the gymnastics that people go to protecting these party members right up until the gold costs kick in.

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Serisan wrote:
My favorite kill as a GM remains something where the player successfully saved, but showed the glory of that d6 hit die. maximized fireball, quickened magic missile. Yes, he made the save vs the fireball. He was level 11 or 12, I think. That was earlier this month.

This sounds very disturbing. Was this in Society play, campaign mode, or a module?

Dark Archive 1/5

In my lodge, poison and disease are a HUGE bane. Especially con poisons since we have a nasty tendency to flub those saves badly... until it's nearly impossible to make the save. I mean, a level 4 paladin with high charisma nearly dying because of a DC 13 con poison? That's just sad. But it happens regularly in my lodge. I'm so glad my core monk is soon going to be immune to diseases (both magical and mundane).

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Pssst.. you wana buy an antitoxin?

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

So far, I have had one TPF (Total Party Fail) that involved a level 1-2 party with a single level 5 captured by slavers except one who fled (level 5 druid dragged us up into high tier, but then wasn't actually effective.) I think everyone could have been bought out, but I didn't see a point on that character.

I have had one near death. Failed both saves on a phantasmal killer, including using a reroll. All 3 rolls were like 2 or 3. Fortunately anouther PC had breath of life, and PK is a fear effect, not a death effect. Yay!

We do have one GM out here whose dice just hate the party. I have watched him roll 3 20s in the first round of the first combat with x4 weapons. At some point, there is just nothing you can do.

But deaths are really rare and far between.

All of my PCs keep a buffer of either 16 PP or 5K gold on hand starting as soon as possible. As soon as I can I up that to 21 PP or 5K gp + 5 PP.

A lot of my PCs buy first aid gloves. I think my gunslinger is going to buy a pair, and loan them to other people, to use on him if he goes down...

Dark Archive 1/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Pssst.. you wana buy an antitoxin?

Very funny. Ironically enough, the player of that paladin keeps saying he should buy antitoxins... But his character has 7 int and 7 wis. So in-character it never occurs to the poor lug. Not that a DC 13 fort save should matter much to the party. Almost all of us have high fort saves. Heck, there's 2 paladins in the group!

Dark Archive 1/5

Jared Thaler wrote:

So far, I have had one TPF (Total Party Fail) that involved a level 1-2 party with a single level 5 captured by slavers except one who fled (level 5 druid dragged us up into high tier, but then wasn't actually effective.) I think everyone could have been bought out, but I didn't see a point on that character.

I have had one near death. Failed both saves on a phantasmal killer, including using a reroll. All 3 rolls were like 2 or 3. Fortunately anouther PC had breath of life, and PK is a fear effect, not a death effect. Yay!

We do have one GM out here whose dice just hate the party. I have watched him roll 3 20s in the first round of the first combat with x4 weapons. At some point, there is just nothing you can do.

But deaths are really rare and far between.

All of my PCs keep a buffer of either 16 PP or 5K gold on hand starting as soon as possible. As soon as I can I up that to 21 PP or 5K gp + 5 PP.

Which is perfectly understandable. I try to save my prestige for the most part. Gold, well I did just spend most of it on two different characters. But that was getting initial +1 gear. Such as getting Xao a +1 amulet of mighty fist off one of her chronicles.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Kahel Stormbender wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Pssst.. you wana buy an antitoxin?

Very funny. Ironically enough, the player of that paladin keeps saying he should buy antitoxins... But his character has 7 int and 7 wis. So in-character it never occurs to the poor lug. Not that a DC 13 fort save should matter much to the party. Almost all of us have high fort saves. Heck, there's 2 paladins in the group!

have his horse pour one down his throat?

4/5

I've had a few character deaths, but none permanent and I think only one was caused by a failed save. One : boss spawned in the face of my sorceror and wrecked him. Two : magus knocked off boat with hydraulic push, grappled by a devilfish, and taken to the bottom of Absalom harbor, leading to drowning. Three : same magus, hit by black tentacles, silence, deeper darkness, and cloudkill within two rounds, which meant I couldn't use boots of escape and elixir of darksight to get out of it. Four : paladin missed acrobatics check and fell 200 feet. Splat! Five : Yeah, that was the phantasmal killer save, on a L11 rogue. Six : earth elemental power attacking gunslinger.

Dark Archive 1/5

Have yet to die in a PFS session. But Xao, my core monk has come uncomfortably close due to mummy rot. And filth fever. And con poisons... So glad that after my next session as a GM Xao will be level 5, thus immune to magical and mundane diseases.

Course, I've got entirely too many special PFS Officer awarded dice from being hit by a confirmed crit too. That's nearly killed Xao too many times too.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Woo, lists!

First character death: tried dragging an unconscious character out of a swarm, went unconscious myself two rounds later. Meanwhile my companions missed with every splash weapon they threw.

Second: A golem injected acid into an already pummeled magus after provoking an AAO. Got breath of life'd next round.

Third: Missed a Reflex save and found myself prone next to two large earth elementals. Resolve left me disabled but alive. Bluffed being dead. Later, after skulking invisibly to find an exit, hit one of their tremorsenses and died to a critical.

Fourth: During 3 turns, 3 negative levels, 3 Con damage, 18 swarm damage, 20 normal damage and 4 force bombs(I think something like 40-60 damage). Confusion's a b!tch!

Fifth: 2 failed saves against evocation blasts and a 19 damage from a magic missile. Stabilized while the perpetrator mowed down the rest of the party members. Later coup-de-graced.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

My PFS Lavode De'Morcaine wrote:
B) Another was a party of all melee martial characters and a couple of encounters pretty much required ranged weapon or spells.

There's no excuse for this one. If you can't afford a bow or crossbow, then javelins and slings are dirt cheap.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Add dr and a decent ac and those just won't do. Luckily those are pretty rare on a flyer.

Liberty's Edge

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Matt Lewis wrote:
My PFS Lavode De'Morcaine wrote:
B) Another was a party of all melee martial characters and a couple of encounters pretty much required ranged weapon or spells.
There's no excuse for this one. If you can't afford a bow or crossbow, then javelins and slings are dirt cheap.

I've always been amazed at the number of melee PC's who refuse to get any sort of ranged option since it isn't their specialty.

Dark Archive 1/5

Well, at low levels you might not be able to afford one after buying armor, basic gear, and a weapon or three.

3/5

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Kahel Stormbender wrote:
Well, at low levels you might not be able to afford one after buying armor, basic gear, and a weapon or three.

2 pp can get you a good one.


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Kahel Stormbender wrote:
Well, at low levels you might not be able to afford one after buying armor, basic gear, and a weapon or three.

That's a good point. It's hard to afford that whopping 0gp for a sling after all the gear low level PCs should have on hand.

Dark Archive 1/5

but while the sling is free, you have to pay for sling bullets. Sure, you could just gather rocks. But then you're taking a damage penalty on an already low damage weapon. And do you really want Fumbles the fighter attempting to use a sling when he'd decided "I'm gonna wear full plate, I can use dex for my dump stat"? :)

Or maybe the poor guy has so many swords, warhammers, axes, halberds, and tridents that he doesn't have space for a pouch of sling bullets. Then again, if you have that many weapons maybe you're trying to convince the GM to give you another point of AC due to being covered head to toe in weapons.

That is sarcasm btw.

I've made fighters who literally had zero gold after buying a weapon, suit of armor, shield, and basic gear. Of course, said fighter would buy a ranged weapon once they could afford one.

Sczarni 3/5

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It's time to repost this blog post by Mike Brock again! In short: be prepared for anything. You are a professional, are you not?

Lantern Lodge 5/5 * RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16

Of the PC deaths at tables I ran...

1. Crit from a halberd. Took the monk tank from full HP to dead instantly. However, the monk tanked long enough for the party to finally take down the enemies with no further damage. Party then had to smuggle the monk's body out of the area they weren't supposed to be in, get the Raise Dead and restorations, then sneak back into the place. They pulled it off and continued with no other problems. Still my favorite PC kill from the great and incentive RP that followed, including using dust of illusion to make the monk's body look like a fur cloak while walking around town looking for a cleric.

2. Bonekeep 1 wipe on high tier led to s near TPK. Only a ninja who vanished and the paladin's mount escaped.

3. Had a severely wounded PC die from the end effect of Weapon in the Rift. Luckily she just bought first aid gloves so the party quickly put them on and saved her with a breath of life.

4. 3 PCs dead from the final battle of a certain hard mode 7-11. Only a lucky double crit from a scythe wielding Hellknight prevented total party kill.

5. Part 2 of Eyes of the Ten. Took a ninja/barbarian so far into negatives it took 3 breath of lifes to save him.

Good times...

3/5

Jared Thaler wrote:
We do have one GM out here whose dice just hate the party. I have watched him roll 3 20s in the first round of the first combat with x4 weapons. At some point, there is just nothing you can do.

Is it me? It's me isn't it? It's probably me... I think I remember the exact occasion this one happened.

I've been the GM for a couple TPFs. Party that got half gold, 0 PA, and a negative boon due to a couple decisions that came back to haunt them... different party that got taken apart (and I do mean apart) by flying breath weapon fiends because only one of them had picked up a back up bow other than the kineticist... TPK to a pair of clockwork soldiers in the 6-7 tier because my dice were hot and the bloatmage was the first one to die due to a crit...

Bad saves will mess you up pretty good, but having a decent band-aid (cleric/oracle) in your back pocket can generally set you right. Bad party comp or bad decisions will utterly wreck you. Then there's the random times where the dice just plain aren't your friend, but thankfully that's pretty rare.

I've personally only ever had 3 PC deaths and they got better each time. Once to a creature that should not have been in that module, once to a poor spell selection by the party caster that chained multiple fights that we miraculously defeated (though not without my druid getting thumped by a frost giant), and once recently to an out of the blue prismatic spray that nuked half the party and killed my plucky magus and her pet mongoose. Poor mongoose...

4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere

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I've had some fun character deaths.

1. My -1 died when we pulled the boss encounter into the encounter before it and the boss pummeled everyone but one character to death. Muser's character jumped off a balcony and ran off, but nobody could afford getting raised since we were on such low levels.

2. My -3 died in the same incident as Muser's first character death. Out of spells and physically a wimp, he decided to chance running into the next room... where he promptly got clocked by the janitor and died.

3. Same incident as Muser's second character death, with a very similar payout. Golem, breath of life, the works.

4. Same incident as Muser's third character death (do we play together enough yet?), but my character just got ground into powder by the elementals. Got raised, but I haven't played the character since because he really doesn't... do anything.

5. We'd been having a super fun time running through Crypt of the Everflame for... the second time, I think. Then my tiefling magus gets crit by the boss at full health.

6. Overly tough module turns into a yakety-sax against TPK by one character running from the boss. One character manages to escape, and we get our body retrieval. One character ends up permadying due to paying for another character's raise.

7. Near-TPK that made us coin the phrase "thanks, SKR".

8. Aaaaand we're back to Muser and his death #5. My character tries the yakety-sax against TPK, gets knocked down by the boss, is one HP away from dying and activating his talisman of life's breath so he can get one last shot at escaping and getting us body retrieval. I only stabilize on a 20, otherwise I bleed out, probably get back up, and have one more go at escaping. ...AND THEN I ROLL THE GODSDAMNED 20. Get captured, CdG'd, it's a TPK.

...huh. All of my characters have died to damage. I think my characters need higher AC and HP in the future.

Scarab Sages 4/5

I've had a few PC deaths. I have also had several close calls related to saves.

First death was on my Sorceer to a Coup de Gras from a Harpy, so that was mostly due to the failed Will save (followed by a failed fort save). This was before the campaign urged GMs to be selective about using CDG. I was playing up in a particularly difficult scenario, so my fault. Despite Will being his best save, that character has failed his save against Harpy Song pretty much every time he's encountered them. I finally bought the Clear Spindle Ioun Stone (which itself is subject to table variation where Harpy's are concerned).

Second death was from damage. The party ran into a Large Earth Elemental at the 3-4 tier. In a more optimized group, it might not have been a problem, but most of the party couldn't do any appreciable damage to it. Between DR 5/-, immunity to critical hits, precision damage, and flanking, and just generally high HD for the tier, it was just too much for that group. My character was the heaviest hitter with an Elven Curved Blade and Power Attack, but what was really his downfall is that he's my negative energy based Oracle of Bones, and I rolled terrible on the attacks. After all but myself and the Halfling Rogue were unconscious, I spent several turns running from the creature and casting stabilize on my downed allies. Then I was forced to confront the elemental, which knocked me into negatives. It then backed off to go back to protecting the area it was set to protect, but by the time the Halfling got to me and got my wand of Inflict Light Wounds, I was 1 HP from dead. The Halfling failed his UMD, I failed my Fort save, and my character met his god (Pharasma). He got better, thanks to the rest of the group contributing, but it still set me back on WBL significantly.

My third death was to a failed save against a Disintegrate on my Ninja, because Ninja Fort Save. I was already down a significant amount of HP. As it turns out, looking over the scenario later to prep it myself, I'm fairly sure I actually made my save. The caster had a higher DC on some lower level spells due to Spell Focus, so I think the GM just mixed things up and thought the Disintegrate DC was higher than it actually was.

That same Ninja, much earlier in her career, nearly died to Ghoul Fever. The party had to actually stop in the middle of the journey back to town so that someone could treated her with Heal checks to help her save, and she still couldn't make 2 in a row without several days going by. And that character failed a Will save against Dominate Person and nearly killed the Sorcerer once. Basically, Ninja saves are not good (other than Reflex). I've done everything I can to boost them now, including taking feats.

Other close calls... My Monk has been within 1 HP of death due to failing a Will save against Chaos Hammer two rounds in a row. He also was nearly killed by a Holy Word type effect due to failing another Will save, until the GM realized the effect was supposed to be reduced per the scenario. My Sorcerer has spent fights nauseated. I just, in general, do not have good luck rolling saving throws.

The Exchange 4/5 5/5

I'll somewhat agree with your premise. Most of the deaths I see come from one of three things:

1. A failed saving throw.
2. An enemy far stronger than the party can deal with. (This may include terrain advantages or something that is simply misCR'ed. It may also involve playing up when the party isn't particularly strong.)
3. The GM reads things wrong (deliberately or not).

My characters have collectively died about 7 or 8 times (and I don't count it as a death if you get a breath of life cast on you in time) and they mostly fall into category 2 with a few category 3s as well.

I have seen other players at my tables die to a failed saving throw, and that's probably the most common cause of deaths at tables I GM.

Why I don't have the failed save problem:
Most of my characters have pretty good will and fort saves just because I like to play those classes. I've got a monk and a cleric of 12th level or above. An 11th level warpriest. An 11th level "little bit of everything" with good saves.

The only one who truly is in danger by saves is my 11th level alchemist. He's failed more than one will save and started chucking bombs at other players while confused or dominated. He's been fortunate enough to be in parties strong enough to take the damage he dishes out and well-prepared enough to snap him out of it. I have boosted his will saves as far as possible but it's just something I have to live with as an exchange for his decent ranged damage and amazing skills. Other saves can usually be compensated for (the cleric has a hideous reflex save but enough hit points to take a hit from those spells anyway) but will saves are usually the dangerous ones.

I'm not one of those people who gets upset because "you didn't build your character right." Personally I think dealing with the effects of a failed save are one of the things that make the game more interesting. So if your character fails a save that you could have prevented, it's OK. Chalk it up to a learning experience and tell the story later. (I also think that non-permadeath deaths - especially touch-and-go situations where people were on the edge of their seats - make for a good story as well.)

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Some player character deaths I've successfully pulled off(sorry guys!):

The Mummy(s): Last leg of an Osiriani dungeon. Mummies alive! We roll init and the the frontline decides to charge. 4 failed saving throws(despair + rot) later the clock is ticking. The mummies stomp the 2 poor sods to pieces, while the rest of the party start flying and chucking alchemy stuff. Forwarding a few turns finds the knocked out sods stabilizing and then dying to the rot's con damage. It was awful. Poor Kummor.

Soaked: Massive half-fiend towering over the party's paladin gets his blasphemy on and oh how: Half the party is out of the game. Cavalier's horse decides to run when her rider goes unconscious in the saddle. Utter chaos! Then comes a horrid wilting (iirc) and the paladin is no more.

Mummy Returns: End of another Osiriani dungeon. This time everyone fails their despair saves. 4 deaths later the party's fighter runs away from a flying goon and barely makes it, sprinting away into the scorching desert. Mummies are scary!

Cold grave: In a frozen cavern the party is beset by strength-draining horrors. Most of the party becomes cloaked in a sleet storm. I ask the players to place their characters on the map and randomly pick the squares where the foes are. And of course somebody bites it when the party's elf alchemist is the only visible foe in line-of-sight. 15 str damage and off xe goes.

I think I've racked something like 12 or 13 deaths. It's a strange campaign sometimes.

(Disclaimer: I take no pleasure in killing poor PC's, but seeing the "OH %&#*!" reactions is great)

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
My PFS Lavode De'Morcaine wrote:
A) One of those was a supremely (un)lucky raging, power attacking, barbarian, critical with a great axe. Sorry, but I'm just not sure you can possibly build a 1st or 2nd level character that will survive almost 40 points of damage in one hit.

Honestly this should be a rule for scenario authors. "Thou shalt not use x3 or x4 crit weapons in subtier 1-2."

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Ryzoken wrote:
Jared Thaler wrote:
We do have one GM out here whose dice just hate the party. I have watched him roll 3 20s in the first round of the first combat with x4 weapons. At some point, there is just nothing you can do.

Is it me? It's me isn't it? It's probably me... I think I remember the exact occasion this one happened.

Yup.

4/5

Michael Hallet wrote:
My PFS Lavode De'Morcaine wrote:
A) One of those was a supremely (un)lucky raging, power attacking, barbarian, critical with a great axe. Sorry, but I'm just not sure you can possibly build a 1st or 2nd level character that will survive almost 40 points of damage in one hit.
Honestly this should be a rule for scenario authors. "Thou shalt not use x3 or x4 crit weapons in subtier 1-2."

Expect that anything a player can do, an NPC will do sometime in a scenario.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

RealAlchemy wrote:
Michael Hallet wrote:
My PFS Lavode De'Morcaine wrote:
A) One of those was a supremely (un)lucky raging, power attacking, barbarian, critical with a great axe. Sorry, but I'm just not sure you can possibly build a 1st or 2nd level character that will survive almost 40 points of damage in one hit.
Honestly this should be a rule for scenario authors. "Thou shalt not use x3 or x4 crit weapons in subtier 1-2."
Expect that anything a player can do, an NPC will do sometime in a scenario.

Or at least should be able to do. At least at this tier you haven't invited 75-100 hours of playing the guy (not to mention planning, leveling, etc)

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Finlanderboy wrote:
Kahel Stormbender wrote:
Well, at low levels you might not be able to afford one after buying armor, basic gear, and a weapon or three.
2 pp can get you a good one.

EXCEPT:

Once again:

If one plays the 'starter modules', one may not even have enough prestige for a PFS-Issue Wand of Cure Light Wounds until the start of their *third* run.

As a result, people who have played in the campaign for a while immediately make THAT the purchase of choice, which means that there's at least another scenario where the party may not have ranged weaponry (save anything they might liberate 'in-scenario' off fallen opponents/out of treasure stashes).

This means it could be well into 2nd level before someone can afford to buy a good ranged weapon they can use with PP.

Jack Brown wrote:


Or at least should be able to do. At least at this tier you haven't invited 75-100 hours of playing the guy (not to mention planning, leveling, etc)

If it is a new player that does not know of 'evergreen scenarios' and is playing in a scenario that will only give credit once, it's kind of rough, too.

1/5

I've had two character deaths, one due to a failed save (reflex on a lightning bolt even though the character had +11 to the save) and the other to a charging lance crit. I have played in no mission failures.

4/5

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Serisan wrote:
My favorite kill as a GM remains something where the player successfully saved, but showed the glory of that d6 hit die. maximized fireball, quickened magic missile. Yes, he made the save vs the fireball. He was level 11 or 12, I think. That was earlier this month.

This sounds very disturbing. Was this in Society play, campaign mode, or a module?

PFS sanctioned module.

where this happened:
Emerald Spire 14

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
RealAlchemy wrote:
Michael Hallet wrote:
My PFS Lavode De'Morcaine wrote:
A) One of those was a supremely (un)lucky raging, power attacking, barbarian, critical with a great axe. Sorry, but I'm just not sure you can possibly build a 1st or 2nd level character that will survive almost 40 points of damage in one hit.
Honestly this should be a rule for scenario authors. "Thou shalt not use x3 or x4 crit weapons in subtier 1-2."
Expect that anything a player can do, an NPC will do sometime in a scenario.

I disagree. There is no reason you have to optimize NPCs even if the players do. Average damage of a raging, power attacking barbarian will straight up kill any level 1 PC. A x2 weapon might be keathal as well, but at least there is a chance.

Liberty's Edge 3/5 *

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Jack Brown wrote:


Or at least should be able to do. At least at this tier you haven't invited 75-100 hours of playing the guy (not to mention planning, leveling, etc)

Tell that to the person who just lost his first boon race PC to a x3 crit at level 1 or 2. Can't just roll up another one.

3/5

Michael Hallet wrote:
Jack Brown wrote:


Or at least should be able to do. At least at this tier you haven't invited 75-100 hours of playing the guy (not to mention planning, leveling, etc)
Tell that to the person who just lost his first boon race PC to a x3 crit at level 1 or 2. Can't just roll up another one.

A clever or savvy player might GM their special boon PC through level 1 and possibly 2 so as to amass enough resources to bounce back if the worst happens. Or they might decide the risk is worth the extra games played as that race.

Unrelated from upthread: I knew it was me! My legend continues...

1/5

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I could honestly see someone so excited over getting their first chance to play a special race that they can not wait.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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o/

Almost got my Suli killed in an evergreen.

It was really exhilarating tho.

3/5

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In my experience TPKs are the result of an inability to deal with some weird condition or circumstance rather than low raw numbers.

You don't die because your attack bonus was +7 instead of +8, you die because you had no way to deal with an invisible creature. Blind-fight is frequently a better investment than Weapon Focus.

The room is flooded and you have no way to move through water efficiently. The enemy is flying and you aren't. The enemy is in deeper darkness. The enemy is incorporeal, it has DR you can't pierce, it's a swarm, etc...

Flexibility and tools for a wide variety of hazards make for survivable characters. I'd rather have a +1 ghost bane sword than a +2 sword any day.

Buy oils of daylight, buy swarmbane clasps, take a range weapon, don't just dump 100% of your resources into one trick that devastates the enemy when it works and gets you murdered when it doesn't.

2/5

I've never killed a character as a GM though I've come close several times.
As a player I've had 2 killed (1 brought back) and a couple of close calls. All of them because of errors on my part.
The 1st I lost we fought an equal number of druids who heard us coming and had time to buff up. I allowed my character to become isolated vs 2 druids. It was a fight I wasn't going to win. It came down to our last guy vs. their last guy. Our guy got the key hit and so everyone in our party (except me) was revived.
The 2nd was a level 8 encounter and my character (a slayer) was the party tank. She dishes out a lot of damage but couldn't handle fighting multiple foes for very long. Fortunately, 24 prestige points later she was fine.
The 2 other character deaths in games I was playing were both due to the player doing something very unwise.

Morag

Dark Archive 1/5

"hey bubba, watch this" is famous last words after all.

Sometimes not having options for every solution is due to chronicles not providing the item. An early session I played where ice was a factor went hilariously wrong and nearly caused a TPK. I got an everburning torch after that session to counter darkness spells. But cleats would have been very useful too.

Sometimes it's due to poor choices. That same scenario a couple guys chased a fleeing bad guy through the ENTIRE fort, aggroing all but the final 2 encounters. Which meant we ended up fighting far too many bad guys who were shrouded in fog and kept sneak attacking anyone who entered he fog to go after them. They also kept healing each other. It happened so many times that the cure moderate wound potions had to be crossed off the chronicle. They'd all been used up before we could search bodies. Seriously, one single five hour battle for that session.

And sometimes it's just poor planning. Group who all have dark vision, mostly melee guys with a ranger and cleric. Nobody thinks to buy torches because, hey dark vision. How do you deal with a swarm? Especially if nobody in-character has dealt with swarms before? Afterwords you start carrying solutions for swarms. But till then in-character you don't know the danger.

5/5 *****

David H wrote:
3. Had a severely wounded PC die from the end effect of Weapon in the Rift. Luckily she just bought first aid gloves so the party quickly put them on and saved her with a breath of life.

I don't believe this is actually possible unless you are looking at a level 5 cleric of an evil deity playing up.

I haven't had one of my PC's die yet but it is only a matter of time. I don't particularly go out of my way to kill PC's but I have blood on my hands.

Warning, some mild spoilers.

Spoiler:
Serpents Rise: 3 deaths so far, two from firesnake, one from confused smiting paladin

Jade Regent 5: One alchemist turned into a shadow. Resurrected then later killed from an Oni full attack doing over 200 damage. Unlucky crossbow fighter died to an ogre mage naginata crit.

Ancient's Anguish: Squishy level 8 sorcerer playing in high tier ended his turn standing within a 5' step of a multiple attack using natural attack monster with no defensive spells cast. I consider that largely a matter of character suicide and accept no responsibility for it.

Emerald Spire: Various PC's have ended up insane, turned to stone or killed by unlucky carnivourous crystal crits.

Bronze House Reprisal: A raging barbarian died to phantasmal killer after dispatching one of the gnomes frineds in an excessively gory way. Yes, a barbarian, while raging, killed by phantasmal killer. It was...unexpected.

Sealed Gate: I was quite surprised no-one died during this. One PC did decline to continue after the first encounter but the rest of the group managed to tough their was through it.

Echoes of the Everwar 2: Gnomes make delightful snacks for giant snakes. I would not have wanted to be on that body recovery mission.

Six Seconds to Mignight: One dead mauler fox familiar, one group allowed to run away because the module lacked its 4 player adjustment when first released.

Moonscar: One unfortunate good aligned cleric reduced to paste by a smiting anti paladin. More amusing was the level 17 shapeshifted druid running away from magic missile spam.

Rats of Round Mountain 2: Dwarf Stonelord Paladin turned to stone, possible irony poisoning.

Tapestry's Toil: Kyra killed by a crit, animated as a zombie.

By Way of Bloodcove: Unlucky occult tanky class (Occultist maybe) hit then crit by a greataxe, went from full hp to dead. Later all bar one of the group died as they just couldn't overcome the end bad guy. Last member left their unconscious allies to be killed off rather than lose 1pp by giving up the MacGuffin...Closest I have ever come to a TPK.

Segang Expedition: Level 3 paladin playing up, bite crit, predictable results. Dead from full in a single hit.

Scions of the Skykey 3: Pounce kitty pounces witch playing up, two crits and death from full HP.

Dalsine Affair: Tier 3-4, 10 con melee bard runs up to spider of unusual size. Dies to con poison. End guy fails to do much.

King of the Storval Stairs: Life Oracle takes full attack from giant barbarian, dies, gets better. Rogue tries to tumble past King, opportunity attack kills him and then some, gets better.

Beacon Below: Riddywhipple is out and doing stuff. Valid target to be included in chain lightning. Fails save, enough said.

That is 20 or so deaths ignoring Emerald Spire over 133 tables of credit which isn't too bloody and most are from unlucky crits.

Dark Archive 1/5

Even level 1 of emerald spire can be farking lethal. Had a monk die there due to a cave in the others couldn't find. I had 1 HP, single goblin back there with me had 1 HP. 15 rounds of missing.... JUST as the party finds the rock pile the goblin crit me, dead.

Scarab Sages 4/5

Weapon in the Rift:
That's the one my Monk died in, only to have it reversed the next day. The GM didn't notice that the effective caster level was supposed to be halved against neutral creatures. It's not a part of the spell, but a part of the scenario. So, there's a good chance other GMs have made that mistake as well, if they read Holy Smite and don't see the exception in the scenario text.

3/5 5/55/55/5 *** Venture-Lieutenant, Ohio—Dayton

My characters only die at conventions :(
-1 Bonekeep 2, I did not know what Bonekeep was at this time
-3 Bonekeep 3 TPK, I am a slow learner
-6 my Core Barb 1 / Sorc 1 got blinded by Glitterdust, he wanders blindly towards the BBEG for 2 rounds before shaking the blindness 10 ft from him. Bad guys hits him with sleep, another failed save, this one while raging. None of the rest of the party can make it to him, BBEG goes again, CdG. Guess what weapon he's holding, that's right, a short bow - x3. I needed to roll an 18 on the Fort save to avoid dying. I didn't make it on the initial, or my re-roll. The party was kind enough to pool their gold to pay for my Raise Dead.
He should have died again later in his career to a failed Will vs a Haunt, that led to a self-inflicted CdG, that led to yet another failed Fort save. The GM let me use his re-roll, as I'd already used mine. This instance wasn't at a Con, so the re-roll succeeded.
-8 TPK in Godsmouth Heresy, brought on by questionable GM tactics and poor party composition.

As a GM, I killed an animal companion Owlbear from full with a crit with a Halberd (x3) in a tier 7-8.
I've come close to killing a couple players, usually due to poorly timed crits. One player was 1hp from death and rolled a Nat 20 to stabilize. He didn't have a lot of hope as he rolled.

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