How to stand up to them bullies: how can I be harder to intimidate??


Advice


So I've already taken the extra traits feat and have Cynical Ear (Social), Centered (Religion Irori), AND Unflappable, netting me an extra 6 to my intimidate DC, these are untyped bonuses so they stack I do believe. I have only 8 wisdom and I'm level 4 so it takes a 19 to intimidate me. I'm not sure if I'm satisfied so I was wondering what other options there were.

I know this seems a bit excessive but as the face of the party this could come in handy, but it's mainly for role play and to help with a later planned event. I will essentially be attempting to diplomatically get my soul back from a demon.. Devil.... SOME form of evil outsider who didn't hold up his end of the bargain as my character's ultimate goal in the campaign, an I feel this being will likely try the while intimidation thing and be darn good at it.


Normally, this is where I'd say be a paladin, and simply ignore others trying to intimidate you using the power of FAITH, but this seems to not be an option now. Sorry that you chose to dump Wisdom, as that will make this a tad bit more difficult. That being said...

There's the option of getting big, which either denies your opponents a bonus or penalizes them if you're larger. Aside from that, not much comes to mind right now.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

Slip on a ring of the sublime just after you are intimidated to remove the effects.

Are you a fighter who worships Cayden Calien? Courage in a Bottle might do it. Littany of defense would work if you could cast it somehow.


If this is a homebrew (and I'm certain it is) you could always try to implement the houserule that Intimidate checks are opposed by the target's Intimidade check. (In social situations) That opens up the risk of getting intimidated yourself even while you initiated the Intimidate check, but isn't that how it works in real life?

I mean, how can you Intimidate the massive orc bouncer if you're afraid to meet his eyes?


Intimidate is broken in this regard.

Things that apply to saving throws against fear should apply to the DC to be intimidated, but do not. Currently it is very hard to set up your character to not be intimidated. 10+HD+wis modifier just isn't a very high target, with little work its very easy to make it such that it is an automatic success on most creatures. And further with abilities that increase the severity by having increasing success (usually increments of 5) you can find people with truly absurd intimidate scores.

Personally, as I said, they need to add anything that adds against fear to the DC for intimidate.

Otherwise, the best thing to do it just try to find a way to be immune to it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

House rule that it does. It certainly is ridiculous that it doesn't.


There's an Ifrit racial trait for a whopping +5 to the DC that you might get GM permission for. There's a lotus you can hold to make yourself immune to negative emotion effects, I think. Talk to your GM, though- it's probably best handled with something custom.

Designer

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Order of the Cockatrice adds Cha modifier to the DC to Intimidate. Then there's those new things too...ooh, but not until March. ;)

Incidentally, I agree with Claxon that the basic math formula for Intimidate has a scaling that makes it too easy to succeed, particularly vis-a-vis lockout abilities that trigger off Intimidate.


Umm... NPC's can't use social skills on PC's to influence their actions? So entirely moot?

Pretty sure that's a rule... Mark?


Certainly true of Diplomacy:

You can change the initial attitudes of *nonplayer* characters with a successful check.

...and I'm almost sure I have seen an FAQ or similar applying the same to intimidate (other than demoralize)...

... because, you know, if an NPC can intimidate a PC, then a PC can chain intimidate another PC for the whole campaign... not much fun for that guy...

Liberty's Edge

Laureth wrote:

Umm... NPC's can't use social skills on PC's to influence their actions? So entirely moot?

Pretty sure that's a rule... Mark?

I'm pretty sure this is correct, or at least should be.

They can definitely use it to make you shaken, though.


I don't think a NPC can use diplomacy or intimidate to adjust your attitude towards them, because that would remove too much of the role play part of the game. But an NPC using intimidate to demoralize you, that is definitely within the rules. I can't cite a specific example, but I'm fairly certain that NPCs in adventure paths and modules have been to written to do that thing exactly.

It's also worth noting that I've seen a lot of builds that dip rogue(thug) just to get the ability to cause frightened instead of shaken.


Intimidate is one of the nice things martial characters get. Let it be.

Also, it works really well for my save-or-suck sorceress focusing on enchantment and necromancy spells.


Intimidate to Demoralize is fine against PCs.

Intimidate to adjust social disposition is not.

Best way to raise your Intimidate DC is to raise your charisma.

It's also worth noting that it is a reasonable house rule to add any bonuses against Fear effects to a character's Intimidate DC. Intimidate is a Fear effect, after all.


PCs are not immune to being given the shaken condition. I suppose this devil could intimidate the PC to lower their diplomacy skill checks by 2, by shouting and waving his clenched fists everywhere whenever they're asked for anything like that boss we've all had once. It's not a penalty that's really worth investing yourself in fighting. Just get skill focus diplomacy or bluff, and you're at a net bonus of +1 or +4!

Unless the NPC is a barbarian with terrifying howl, or has the disheartening display feat. That's the only time you'd need to worry. They probably won't.


Mean, we aren't talking about PC martials here, we are talking about NPC's, so what's your point? Also bear in mind martials suck at intimidate unless they spank a feat on intimidating prowess.. it's Sorcerers and similar who rule at it... yep... full prog casters (as you yourself point out... not that this would in any way affect your *PC* anyway).


Yep, exactly, in combat use of social skills againt PC's is fine (be it demoralize, feint, whatever), anything that takes away player agency for an extended period and can be done an infinite number of times a day is not... as everyone seems to be agreeing. I'm *sure* this has already been gone over and FAQ'd, have serious deja vu.

Again, Mark, can you just shut this one down with an answer? This comes up constantly and I'm sure it's already been answered...


Laureth wrote:


just shut this one down with an answer? This comes up constantly and I'm sure it's already been answered...

I still want to know how to stand up to thug rogues and H'Orc barbarians with Terrifying Howl, and bugbears with that feat chain that gives free intimidations...


nemophles wrote:
Laureth wrote:


just shut this one down with an answer? This comes up constantly and I'm sure it's already been answered...
I still want to know how to stand up to thug rogues and H'Orc barbarians with Terrifying Howl...

How is that relevant to the original question? The OP is talking about being intimidated by an NPC *socially*, not in combat.


OK, no, wait, I see your point, you are saying it's legit to use demoralize/terrifying howl outside of combat... actually yes, I agree. Sorry. So long as an NPC/PC can't use straight up intimidate against a PC.


There is also a new spell from arcane anthology called tough crowd that, along with some other pretty decent effects, increases dcs to intimidate you by 4.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Mammoth Rider gets Undaunted at level 4 for Strength mod to intimidate to DC.

Undaunted (Ex): At 4th level, a mammoth rider adds her Strength bonus to the DC of Intimidate checks made against her. Additionally, creatures attempting to intimidate a mammoth rider don’t gain a bonus for being larger than her.

Though it might be a bit hard to qualify for that prestige class, or maybe not even wanted. I'm not sure if there are any other ways to get Strength mod to intimidate DC.


OP, would you not be better cranking your diplomacy? If the worst you are going to face is a -2 penalty for being shaken? If we are all agreeing the NPC can't use Intimidate to force you to do anything/change you attitude, I'm not seeing how any worse penalty could apply (assuming the demon isn't a Barb with the ability to make you panicked). Are you seeing any Demon/Devil abilities that can do worse than shaken via Intimidate (rather than via a fear effect)?


Gah, the goat already beat me to this sentiment!


noble peasant wrote:
I will essentially be attempting to diplomatically get my soul back from a demon.. Devil.... SOME form of evil outsider who didn't hold up his end of the bargain as my character's ultimate goal in the campaign, an I feel this being will likely try the while intimidation thing and be darn good at it.

Leaving aside the NPCs can't socially adjust PCs attitudes, if your DM wants to have the big bads intimidate score be part of the equation they certainly can. Getting a good deal being dependent on some sort of contest of skills or something is certainly possible.

The problem is though, you are sort of running the red queens race in your quest to make yourself 'proof' against intimidate. If the GM wants the intimidate to be a significant and meaningful portion of the encounter, then it is quite likely that you being 'harder' at being intimidated will just mean the the demon will therefore be better at it. In any event, I certainly wouldn't invest any more resources than you have for something that will probably only be used once and that only at the very end of the campaign.


Well yes, sure, if the GM is going to houserule his NPC, the question is pointless. He is of course 100% free to do so, but it seems like telegraphing an encounter (without specifying any houserules) and then houseruling it when you get there is kind of a dick move.


Tell your DM that regularly being intimidated in not fun for heroic characters and if he wants it to have the desired effect he should save it for the occasional time when an NPC really SHOULD be intimidating.


Laureth wrote:
Well yes, sure, if the GM is going to houserule his NPC, the question is pointless. He is of course 100% free to do so, but it seems like telegraphing an encounter (without specifying any houserules) and then houseruling it when you get there is kind of a dick move.

"attempting to diplomatically get my soul back from a demon"

As far as I know, we are indeed obviously in some sort of GM creation area here. I don't think there is any established way to get a soul back, so it is something the DM is going to be inventing. I don't know that I would call it a house-rule, but a customized challenge is certainly possible, and it is certainly part of the game without it being a 'houserule'. Published modules have all sorts of examples of customized challenges, using skills, attack-type roles etc, and developing such things is standard GMing, not 'houserules'.

And if, as the OP suggests, this is the final end challenge of the campaign, I expect the DM will indeed make it a challenge, so if your character is great at whatever the challenge is, then your opposition will be equally great/difficult to overcome.


Well I wasn't aware of the "can't affect disposition" bit so that's helpful, still, definitely don't mind having mechanics to back up my fluff, I may have missed out on aura of courage because of an archetype but just being tough to shake up will definitely suffice.


Dave Justus wrote:
Laureth wrote:
Well yes, sure, if the GM is going to houserule his NPC, the question is pointless. He is of course 100% free to do so, but it seems like telegraphing an encounter (without specifying any houserules) and then houseruling it when you get there is kind of a dick move.

"attempting to diplomatically get my soul back from a demon"

As far as I know, we are indeed obviously in some sort of GM creation area here. I don't think there is any established way to get a soul back, so it is something the DM is going to be inventing. I don't know that I would call it a house-rule, but a customized challenge is certainly possible, and it is certainly part of the game without it being a 'houserule'. Published modules have all sorts of examples of customized challenges, using skills, attack-type roles etc, and developing such things is standard GMing, not 'houserules'.

And if, as the OP suggests, this is the final end challenge of the campaign, I expect the DM will indeed make it a challenge, so if your character is great at whatever the challenge is, then your opposition will be equally great/difficult to overcome.

Apologies, that's faulty wording on my part, what I've got going is more close to what the damnation feats get you without the feats or drawbacks of being damned. So he doesn't have my soul yet, I gave him an IOU :P


well they have to cleary see and hear you for demolarize. obsucrring mist would stop it cold

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / How to stand up to them bullies: how can I be harder to intimidate?? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice