DC Comics To Relaunch Everything


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Aberzombie wrote:
So it could have been done much better.

Agreed. Courage, instead of 'willpower' and some sort of despair or doubt instead of avarice, would have rounded things out a little better. Maybe emotional spectra of joy and / or hate, as well. (Granted, that would have taken well past seven colors, but I'm fine with that. They went there anyway with white and black and ultraviolet Lanterns...)

I guess, if coming up with opposites;
courage (willpower) vs. fear,
hate vs. love,
rage vs. serenity,
joy (hope?) vs. despair.

Compassion and avarice don't really count as emotions. (Neither do willpower and hope, for that matter, but courage and joy sub for them nicely.) Ha, a ring of Joy. A trickster lantern, who fuels laughter and merriment and shenanigans wherever they go...

Then again, it's all a bit squiffy anyway, since the Green Lantern ring has never really had anything to do with emotional stuff anyway. It just creates light constructs. Ditto Sinestro's ring or Star Sapphire's gem. Light constructs. Doesn't matter if anyone is scared or in love to use them, and the items never made people scared or whatever, in the past.

It feels like a neat idea that was tacked on somewhere it didn't really fit, and everything was deformed to make it kinda/sorta work (but not really, and not consistently).


Set wrote:
Aberzombie wrote:
So it could have been done much better.

Then again, it's all a bit squiffy anyway, since the Green Lantern ring has never really had anything to do with emotional stuff anyway. It just creates light constructs. Ditto Sinestro's ring or Star Sapphire's gem. Light constructs. Doesn't matter if anyone is scared or in love to use them, and the items never made people scared or whatever, in the past.

It feels like a neat idea that was tacked on somewhere it didn't really fit, and everything was deformed to make it kinda/sorta work (but not really, and not consistently).

Particularly since it all got made up decades after the Green Lantern side of it was well established. The Green Lanterns date back the early 60s, right? (As a revamp of the older solo Green Lantern.) The whole emotional spectrum/multi-color corps thing was a mid-2000s creation, IIRC. Sinestro had his yellow ring earlier and the Star Sapphires existed, but without the connection being made.

I'll admit I wasn't paying a lot of attention to GL at the time, but it never made any sense to me. Apparently popular though.


Look all I know is Larzfleeze is the best reason I have to explain current events in this world and avarice might not be an emotion, but it's a state of being.

Also apparently Rose and Thorn have some kind of super power. :P

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Avarice is an extension of the emotion Envy.
Larzfleeze sees something someone else has and is envious of it, thus he craves to make it his own, which is avarice.
This whole time, the Orange Spectrum has been misnamed.


thejeff wrote:
Particularly since it all got made up decades after the Green Lantern side of it was well established. The Green Lanterns date back the early 60s, right? The whole emotional spectrum/multi-color corps thing was a mid-2000s creation, IIRC. Sinestro had his yellow ring earlier and the Star Sapphires existed, but without the connection being made.

Yeah, since Sinesrto's yellow ring was made by the Weaponers of Qward, a world within an antimatter universe, it could have been passed off as simply "anti-green" energy with no emotional component. And the purple energy used by Star Sapphire needed no emotional content just because it was another color -- the whole "emotional spectrum" thing was silly.

I suppose it could have been worse. Geoff Johns (may the fleas of a thousand camels infest his armpits) could have decided the spectrum was based on seven cardinal virtues, with a corresponding spectrum based on the seven deadly sins and related somehow to the wizard Shazam, Captain Marvel and/or the Rock of Eternity. Then we'd have 14 corps, perhaps half chromatic and half metallic -- shades of D&D -- even before black, white and ultraviolet came along.

Perhaps it would have been better to tie Green Lantern ring energy into The Green decades ago, rather than making it only the source of Akan Scott's power in New 52's Earth-2. Red Lanterns drawing on The Red could still be rage monsters. No need for The Yellow as a third elemental source; Sinestro's ring isn't a part of the natural universe. Star Sapphire would likewise have a power source unrelated to Red/Green type sources and there'd be no need at all for blue, orange or indigo.


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I thought Avarice was greed but sure, Envy works too.

In any case, I still like Larzfleeze and Atroticus.

Also I'd prefer fleas infest Dan Dido. He's more deserving.


Plenty of fleas to go around; does Dan Dido share responsibility for the emotional spectrum?

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I saw the 6 page preview for LSH - extend the fleas to Bendis.


Damon,

I think that is partial on Geoff Johns...but I wouldn't be surprised if Dido had a hand in it.

Bendis fleas are fine.


Aberzombie wrote:

A beloved Batman character just became a major casualty in the war on Bane

DC continues to prove I made a good choice in cutting back collecting their books, especially with this hack King still being allowed to crap all over things.

If it's any consellation it clearly doesn't stick.

Doomsday Clock supposedly takes place a year or so from the rest of the comics, and Alfred is just fine there, serving pancakes to people

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I don't know if I trust the Doomsday Clock is a year in the future timeline anymore, Grey. That's how it was originally meant to play out, yeah, but it was also supposed to wrap up November of 2018 too, and it won't even actually wrap up until after November of 2019

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Read LSH Millennium. Looks like it is a linking story, connecting the 21st century to the 31 thru the eyes of Rose and Thorn. How the heck did she become immortal?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Dunno, that's part of this mystery


Yeah no one is sure how Rose/Thor got immortal only she's there living through the centuries for...reasons

And Cori is correct, I no longer trust the timeline for Doomsday Clock because clearly it's been behind since the middle of 2018.

But we'll see what it all means in the last issue. If anything. I mean it and Justice League's Doomwar is kind...flex-y weird interesting at times.


Cori Marie wrote:
I don't know if I trust the Doomsday Clock is a year in the future timeline anymore, Grey. That's how it was originally meant to play out, yeah, but it was also supposed to wrap up November of 2018 too, and it won't even actually wrap up until after November of 2019

I think at this point, it will 'be done when it is done' and then be shoved off to the side and never spoken about again(Kind of like Wonder Woman having I-Ching as a side kick and Disney's Song of the South)

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Just got to talk to Bendis for 20 minutes about Event Leviathan. Looking forward to publishing that interview.


Did he indicate who Leviathan was? Cause I'm honestly stumped.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I got one spoiler on who it ISN'T.

Spoiler:
He confirmed it is NOT Lois


Well that's a relief. I mean who it's not is better than who it is...some times.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Yeah no one is sure how Rose/Thor got immortal only she's there living through the centuries for...reasons

Rose/Thor...now there's an image.

As for the immortality, retconned as having a connection to The Green somehow?

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Damon Griffin wrote:
Thomas Seitz wrote:

Yeah no one is sure how Rose/Thor got immortal only she's there living through the centuries for...reasons

Rose/Thor...now there's an image.

As for the immortality, retconned as having a connection to The Green somehow?

Thorn as a plant elemental? Could be possible. The Golden Age Thorn on Earth-2 could control plants.


Damon,

Dammit... but yeah it might be connected to that. I dunno. I do know that it's weird choice in some ways when there are other plant based people they (Bendis) could have used.


Or perhaps Thorn is an entity that serially reincarnates like Hawkman.

I think the last Rose/Thorn I read was in the 70's, as a backup in the Lois Lane comic. Or...did I read the Gail Simone mini-series? Maybe I did, but even that would have been 15 years ago. I have no idea what DC has done with/to her since.


I had no idea what was done with her period...


Or it's just a new version of the character with a new backstory/powers.

There was apparently a new version in the New 52 and this is another. Neither apparently having much in common with either the Golden Age or Silver Age ones - other than the basic 2 personality thing.


Sigh. DC Comics...the 'DC' stands for Dump Continuity.


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Damon,

Or just "Dropkick Conscious thought..."

Scarab Sages

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DC has continuity?


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I mean...it used to?


Thomas Seitz wrote:
I mean...it used to?

When?


thejeff,

Maybe back in the late 90s. Whenever it was they had Birthright Superman. I mean that was pretty good...


Thomas Seitz wrote:

thejeff,

Maybe back in the late 90s. Whenever it was they had Birthright Superman. I mean that was pretty good...

They've had plenty of good stories, but continuity? That story rewrote continuity, replacing Superman's origin. Which was at the time based on the post-Crisis Byrne rewrite, which had replaced the Silver Age rewrite.


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thejeff wrote:
They've had plenty of good stories, but continuity? That story rewrote continuity, replacing Superman's origin. Which was at the time based on the post-Crisis Byrne rewrite, which had replaced the Silver Age rewrite.

Oh, but DC isn't to blame for all of that. It's all Dr. Manhattan's fault. [/SARCASM]

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

They've had cohesive continuity several times, just because it's later retconned doesn't mean it wasn't cohesive at the time.

Speaking of retcons: My first piece for ComicsBeat went live last week.


Damon Griffin wrote:
thejeff wrote:
They've had plenty of good stories, but continuity? That story rewrote continuity, replacing Superman's origin. Which was at the time based on the post-Crisis Byrne rewrite, which had replaced the Silver Age rewrite.
Oh, but DC isn't to blame for all of that. It's all Dr. Manhattan's fault. [/SARCASM]

Only the one time. ;)

You know I wonder if this whole "Superman is the center of the metaverse" is why the Time Trapper is so worked up about him.

Assuming Trapper is still a sentient rogue timeline, maybe he's something that got left out during one of the rewrites.

If he can snuff Superman or dislodge him from being the metaverse keystone, he could reassert his existance as a proper timeline.

Scarab Sages

Greylurker wrote:


Assuming Trapper is still a sentient rogue timeline....

Damn! Looks like I missed a big chunk of something along the way. Last I remember, Trapper was a future version of Rokk.

Legion continuity always gives me a super headache.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Legion continuity is my jam *points at link above*

The LAST Time Trapper was seen in Legion of Three Worlds, and that version most definitely had a reason to be worked up about Superman. He was A Superman. Superboy Prime grew up to be the Time Trapper, and then wrote himself back out of continuity at the same time.

Scarab Sages

'Suicide Squad' Returning In New Comic Series from 'Injustice' Team

Hmmmm....I loved Suicide Squad back in the Ostrander days. Collected it sporadically afterwards, but haven't touched it in years. Not familiar with the dude they've got writing it, Tom Taylor. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

I was amused by the interview, though. Those lines about "No one is safe." and "Don't get attached." are kind of laughable. Of course some chacacters will be safe. Two off the top of my head are Harley Quinn and Deadshot. I don't think either one of those will ever be killed, no matter how much they should be.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I dunno, I could see them killing off Deadshot at this point. Especially since Will Smith isn't coming back for the next movie.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Nice article Cori. Your knowledge of Legion history is quite impressive.
I have been collecting Legion comics since the late 60's. I have tracked down and acquired all but 4 Adventure, 3 Action, and a few guest appearances.
I have enjoyed all of them except what you are calling the Threeboot, although the Pre-Boot stories were a little Meh.

Superman #14 reveals the whole Legion. I hope Bendis starts small and builds up the roster.

Looking at some of the other articles, there have been a few previews of characters. Element Lad looks downright weird and Dreamgirl looks like she is made of sand (I guess she could be ethereal). Don't get me started on Matter-Eater Lad.
I understand diversity in the New Legion, but I think they missed the mark on making Lightning Lad black. (In the aforementioned character preview he is white.) That should have gone to Cosmic Boy.
Reason: Lightning Lad has always been a bit of a hot-head, so now we have another hot-headed black person. Cosmic Boy has always had a calming effect on Lightning Lad.

You point out that Jon Kent is asked to join, but that could be a full Legion later in their careers. Clark and and Kara could have been members already, even if Kara hasn't been invited yet.
In Supergirl's comic before Bendis arrived she fought the Emerald Empress who claimed Supergirl had ruined her life. When Kara said she didn't know what the Empress was talking about Clark said she is from the future and it was probably something that Kara hadn't done yet. This makes me believe Superman had been in the Legion as a youth and Supergirl is going to be.

Of course, since this was pre-Bendis it may be already be retconned.


I kind of hope they don't start small and build up. The legion's at its best when it's huge and complicated. And I'd rather not focus on introductions and origin stories of characters.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I like introductions. Lets find out about the "new" characters a little at a time. I don't want "Here I Am" information overload.

Now that I think about Matter-Eater Lad, I wonder if his intake of food converts into mass and strength? That would be better than just eating something to escape some situation.


Aberzombie wrote:
Greylurker wrote:


Assuming Trapper is still a sentient rogue timeline....

Damn! Looks like I missed a big chunk of something along the way. Last I remember, Trapper was a future version of Rokk.

Legion continuity always gives me a super headache.

I think he is both and Superboy Prime. As I understood it, Trapper is kind of a temporal paracite. It has to latch onto someone to have a physical form


Aberzombie wrote:

'Suicide Squad' Returning In New Comic Series from 'Injustice' Team

Hmmmm....I loved Suicide Squad back in the Ostrander days. Collected it sporadically afterwards, but haven't touched it in years. Not familiar with the dude they've got writing it, Tom Taylor. Maybe I'll give it a shot.

I was amused by the interview, though. Those lines about "No one is safe." and "Don't get attached." are kind of laughable. Of course some chacacters will be safe. Two off the top of my head are Harley Quinn and Deadshot. I don't think either one of those will ever be killed, no matter how much they should be.

I was rather annoyed that they had to focus so much on torturing and killing that guy who could open any lock with a touch. Lost both his hands and fed to Killer Croc.


I think Grey had the right of it. While Time Trapper IS Super (insert boy or man), in most instances I've read since Final Crisis, it seems more he's a sentient timeline that take the form that most readily works to his advantage.

As for the new Suicide Squad...I'm holding off since it feels like they keep doing the same thing over and over again with this group. Even though I agree, Deadshot is no longer safe.


I think the last time I really liked the Legion was the Abnett and Lanning run. Legion Lost is still one of my favourites.

Legion of three Worlds was just "how fast can we write out one version of the legion" almost as a afterthought. If they can not even get the name of one of the characters right they write out ,it is not a good sign.

After that it became reboot after reboot so i gave up on it.
I will give the current version a chance.
It is Bendis but perhaps he can salvage the mess that is legion. He surprised me with All-new X-Men after all.

Hope he does not just bring back the usual suspects, but some less known. Bringing back Shikari would be great^^

Silver Crusade

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And here's my interview with Bendis


So...on the one hand I like that Tim Drake is getting his new identity that isn't a restaurant...but not sure this is the hill he should die on for this one...

Scarab Sages

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Ah...good, old Tim Drake. My third favorite Robin. Grayson is the first favorite. Carrie Kelly is my second. Stephanie Brown is fourth. Jason Todd is a very distant fifth.

And then there's......the abomination. If I had a list of least favorite comic book characters (which, coincidentally, I do), he'd be at the bottom of it.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

It depends on how we're judging them. If we're judging full career and not just time spent as Robin, my #1 is Dick. If we are just judging the Robin part of their career, my #1 is Tim.

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