DC Comics To Relaunch Everything


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Chris: No matter what anyone at DC says, I don't believe hypertime ever really went away. (My God, I hate hypertime! Biggest cop out in the history of comics, allowing for the total abdication of all responsibility for anything remotely representing continuity, anywhere or anywhen.)

Thomas: ...and that's another thing! I resent the renumbering(s) and realignment(s) by DC of...okay, their universes. *I* live on Earth-0, and the default setting for the DC multiverse is Earth-1.

Sorry, I'm feeling particularly grognardic today.


Damon,

Yeah you're pretty grognardic about this...but in some ways it's a valid complaint.

(Also since it was a Grant Morrison thing, Hypertime is pretty favorable in my view.)


Yeah, every once in a while I fall deep into "get off my lawn!" Old Comics Geezer mode. Fifty years of reading comics can do that to a person.

Intellectually I can see how some readers might appreciate Hypertime as an elegant solution for retcons, what ifs, etc. Viscerally, I just can't get past thinking of it as a sort of cheat. But a cheat raised to universal coverage level, somewhat like the proverbial "it's a matter of national security" that (at least in movies and TV) allowed the government to bypass any normal procedure.


Goddang new fangled comic folk! Ain't they got no sense of decent story telling?

Scarab Sages

Sad to say, I've been getting pretty tired of DC's s$&+ for a while now. The only regular series I even bother with are Detective (possibly not much longer), Bstman Beyond, and Hawkman. Anything else DC I buy is mini-series and one shots.

I didn't collect this latest Crisis they crapped out, and after hearing about it I'm glad I avoided it. As a bonus, I'll probably skip any future works where King is given writing choirs.

The only reason I'm still collecting Doomsday Clock is for completeness sake. The story really hasn't impressed me.


I wouldn't say I'm in love with Doomsday Clock...but it has some quaint charms about it. Story isn't, as you said, A-zombie, impressive...but it does have some good character moments.

I'm not sure Detective Comics isn't going to get another reboot after DC figures out what to do with it...


As a rule I'm annoyed by DC's constant restructuring of the multiverse. But I just read Doomsday Clock 10 and I was kind of intrigued with the notion that "Superman's universe" (nee Earth-1, more recently Earth-0) isn't part of the multiverse, but a separate reality to which the multiverse reacts.

A little bit less enamored with the idea that DC's default universe literally revolves around Superman, and that cosmic entities mucking with his arrival date on Earth (which necessitates manipulating the time of Krypton's destruction) creates upheaval in the entire world's timeline. I mean, I can see that it has to have significant effect, I just don't like the idea of any one mortal being the nexus of everything in that universe.


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Damon,

Eh I'm just accepting this will be cannon until the next time Superboy Prime punches reality again. Or Barry does something silly.


I expect Manhattan to allow himself to be killed since he has said that he saw nothing past a certain point.


I'm more expecting he gets hit by Dan Dido's retcon.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I hate retcons!


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Charles,

That's fair. I hate Dan Dido.

Scarab Sages

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In their continuing effort to show how far they have their collective head shoved up their collective ass, the powers-that-be at DC have announced Phantasm Will Appear in Tom King’s Batman/Catwoman Series.

Sooo....let's get this straight. They just brought a new version of the Reaper into the Batverse in the Detective Annual, indicating they'r eplanning something more with it. Now, however, they're also letting this jackass of a writer bring in the Reaper rip-off character Phantasm from the animated movie? Hopefully this Batman/Catwoman series won't be part of regular continuity.


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A-zombie,

I happen to like the Phantasm but I do see your point about how this is a silly move.

Scarab Sages

I thought Mask of the Phantasm was a decent flick, and I liked the character. Nevertheless, it was a rip off of Year Two. I would have much preferred to see that story told. I still have hope they might do so, in the DC animated universe.

Scarab Sages

DC Announces Legion of Super-Heroes: Millennium With Brian Michael Bendis & Ryan Sook

I'm actually indifferent to this at the moment. I've heard good and bad things about Bendis. I'm honestly not sure I've ever read anything he's done.


A-zombie,

Well he's responsible for Miles Morales...so take that as you will. That and the Ultimate Universe...at least some of it.

Regarding Year Two, yeah it might happen if only because people want more Kevin Conroy.


Aberzombie wrote:

DC Announces Legion of Super-Heroes: Millennium With Brian Michael Bendis & Ryan Sook

I'm actually indifferent to this at the moment. I've heard good and bad things about Bendis. I'm honestly not sure I've ever read anything he's done.

Not sure I can cope with another version of the Legion.

Dark Archive

thejeff wrote:
Not sure I can cope with another version of the Legion.

Yeah, it's a head-scratcher.

On the upside, in the Reboot, the writers felt free to make all sorts of new and interesting characters like Kid Quantum 2 and Dragonmage. I could go for some new and different and *original.* (At least, more original than, 'This one is a 31st century Amazon! And this one is a 31st century Atlantean! And a 31st century speedster, and a 31st century Lantern, and here's the 31st century totally-not-a-Batman-clone...')

On the downside, the threeboot went the opposite direction, and gave us tweaked versions of the usual Founders + Brainy, and assorted other 'classic' Legionnaires, but since they weren't the *actual* original Legionnaires, I don't even know who the audience was.

As a fan of the originals, I don't want to see another version of them. I want to see *them.*

Barring that, I'd *much* rather see a bunch of newbies, or lesser-developed folk like Tellus and Tyroc and Dragonwing and Glorith getting a chance to shine than 'version of Shadow Lass, who isn't *MY* Shady, number eleventy-bleem' or 'like Brainy, but even more of a curmudgeonly jerkweed Vril Dox wannabe than the last AU Brainy.'

Give me a 'Legion' with Gas Girl and Quantum Queen and Silver Sword and Crystal Kid and Variable Lad and Myg and Rond Vidar and Insect Queen over one with a fifth 'new' take on the Founders + Brainy...

Scarab Sages

Thomas Seitz wrote:

A-zombie,

Well he's responsible for Miles Morales...

shakes fist

THAT TWO-FACED SON OF A JACKAL!!!

Scarab Sages

My first experience with the Legion was the reboot which followed The Magic Wars, the series that started in late 89. I've collected them on and off since then.

I sincerely hope they can make a good run of it, but I doubt I'll collect any. I've become overall leery of ongoing titles by DC, preferring these days to focus on one-shots and limited series. The only ongoing series I get are Detective (which is currently meh), Batman Beyond (which I think needs a new writer) and Hawkman (which finally finished up its first major arc, so we'll see where it goes from here).

Scarab Sages

In other news (and someone should probably make a movie thread for it)…

It almost looks like the next Batman movie will be an attempt to remake the 1966 film.

I can't wait to see the Bat Shark Repellant in action again!!!


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Aberzombie wrote:

In other news (and someone should probably make a movie thread for it)…

It almost looks like the next Batman movie will be an attempt to remake the 1966 film.

I can't wait to see the Bat Shark Repellant in action again!!!

Must have him trying to get rid of a bomb.


It gets 'better" A-zombie. Dark Multiverse Batman aka the Man who Laughs, has secretly infected six of the various DC heroes with the same Joker type Venom that made him the Batman/Joker Hybrid that exists right now.

And first up is....Billy Batson.

Scarab Sages

Yeah, I had briefly considered collecting the new Batman/Superman series when it started, until I read they'd start the series having them dealing with the Batman Who's Lame and his Double-Secret Probation Stealth Jokers.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

It gets 'better" A-zombie. Dark Multiverse Batman aka the Man who Laughs, has secretly infected six of the various DC heroes with the same Joker type Venom that made him the Batman/Joker Hybrid that exists right now.

And first up is....Billy Batson.

Is that what it is about. I thought one of his Robins was his reality's Billy. admittedly I didn't look too close at the story.


Grey,

No unfortunately it's more that The Man Who Laughs infects this Multiverse/Earth's Billy Batson, rather than some Dark Multiverse version.


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Grey,

No unfortunately it's more that The Man Who Laughs infects this Multiverse/Earth's Billy Batson, rather than some Dark Multiverse version.

Didn't they do that story already with Eclipso?


Grey,

Yeah but unlike that one, Eclipso isn't from another Multiverse.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

So uh, I highly recommend avoiding Superman: Year One like the plague.

Superman Year One:
Contains the most Frank Miller of Frank Miller scenes, an attempted gang r*** of Lana Lang


Cori,

Yeah I'm not sure I'm ready for that...


Superman: Year One

DC BLACK LABEL is proud to present the definitive origin of Superman as rendered by the legendary comics creators Frank Miller and John Romita Jr.!

At this point I'd normally say "until the next writer comes along", but given the lasting effect The Dark Knight Returns has had on Batman...over 30 years later, still casting a big shadow.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Damon Griffin wrote:

Superman: Year One

DC BLACK LABEL is proud to present the definitive origin of Superman as rendered by the legendary comics creators Frank Miller and John Romita Jr.!

At this point I'd normally say "until the next writer comes along", but given the lasting effect The Dark Knight Returns has had on Batman...over 30 years later, still casting a big shadow.

The difference is that at his core, Miller at least somewhat understands Batman. The original DKR is still genuinely loved by a good portion of the fandom, and Batman Year One is, for as much as I dislike Miller for the most part, very good. Superman Year One is not that, even discounting the scene I spoilered up above. Miller doesn't understand what makes Superman great, and that shows in his decisions in this book. I'll spoiler a couple of the other bad choices made, but the book also suffers from severe wordiness of the narration (SO MANY WORDS ON EVERY PAGE, LET THE ART BREATHE MY MAN) and the fact that John Romita Jr. is a shell of his former greatness art wise.

Superman Year One:
Clark in this book seems ego driven and show boaty. Whether its how he takes care of bullies throughout the issue, or the fact that he wins a football game for Smallville by dragging most of the opposing team with him into the endzone, its hard to believe that anyone in Smallville would ever think of the Kent boy as mild-mannered or even some semblance of normal. This is the reason most versions of Clark's origin have him avoiding sports, and the ones that don't either have him quitting when he realizes how much harm he can do (Smallville) or not having his powers surface until high school was almost over (Post-Crisis Byrne/Jurgens era Superman).

On top of that, he makes the very weird decision to join the Navy at the end of this book, which considering he's an alien who has no papers, and has impenetrable skin, makes one wonder how long until the government figures out he's not from around here. This also sets up Frank's really bad loyal USA lapdog version of Superman that surfaces in DKR, and that's really not the version I want to see.


Cori Marie wrote:
Damon Griffin wrote:

Superman: Year One

DC BLACK LABEL is proud to present the definitive origin of Superman as rendered by the legendary comics creators Frank Miller and John Romita Jr.!

At this point I'd normally say "until the next writer comes along", but given the lasting effect The Dark Knight Returns has had on Batman...over 30 years later, still casting a big shadow.

The difference is that at his core, Miller at least somewhat understands Batman. The original DKR is still genuinely loved by a good portion of the fandom, and Batman Year One is, for as much as I dislike Miller for the most part, very good. Superman Year One is not that, even discounting the scene I spoilered up above. Miller doesn't understand what makes Superman great, and that shows in his decisions in this book. I'll spoiler a couple of the other bad choices made, but the book also suffers from severe wordiness of the narration (SO MANY WORDS ON EVERY PAGE, LET THE ART BREATHE MY MAN) and the fact that John Romita Jr. is a shell of his former greatness art wise.

** spoiler omitted **...

Plus Miller's gone a long way downhill from his peak days - Daredevil and Dark Knight, IMO.

Plus his work was fresh and original then, the darkness was a very different take on the field. Now it's been rehashed for decades.
There's little chance that Miller will have nearly the influence now he did then.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Especially when you look at how utterly irrelevent the two DKR sequels were, and the mess that was ASB&RTBW


I'm with Cori, Miller isn't the writer he used to be. Also I wouldn't pick him for Superman.

Scarab Sages

I wasn't aware Superman Year One had come out yet. With all the complaints I've heard about these Black Label titles, I wonder how long DC will keep it going.


Year One or Black Label? Because I'm not sure either will be going much further.

Now Young Animal...maybe.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Year One has not technically come out yet. I get review copies, and figured this one was worth a warning to you all.


Oh...Some reason I thought it was already available. Thank you for correcting me, Cori.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

It comes out tomorrow

Scarab Sages

Interesting.....

Beginning in 2020 All Content will be Organized Under Three Age-Specific Labels: DC Kids, DC and DC Black Label. Vertigo Publishing Imprint to be Sunset at the End of the Year


Meh.

Right now I'd like for them to keep Vertigo...but I guess that's just another pipe dream...

Scarab Sages

Well, now that's interesting.....

Joe Hill is writing and overseeing a new line of DC horror comics

I've read plenty of Stephen King (though not as much as I used to for reasons), but never anything from his son (who could very well be his younger clone). I may have to give this a try, though I don't hold high hopes for it.


Eh. Joe Hill is a good writer. I dunno why DC is doing these moves...but at least getting Joe Hill to help them do horror comics should be good.

Scarab Sages

I'll most likely pick up an issue or two, simply because I enjoy a good horror comic.


The last real horror comic I liked was Diablo House. I forget who the publisher was though.


Thomas Seitz wrote:
The last real horror comic I liked was Diablo House. I forget who the publisher was though.

IDW

On the basis of the blurbs at AZ's link, I'll tentatively plan to check out Basketful of Heads, Plunge, Sea Dogs...and possibly Daphne Byrne and The Dollhouse.

There are some art styles I dislike strongly enough to put me off a comic no matter how good the writing might be, and a the cover art on a couple of these has raised my antennae just slightly. On the interior art matters for these purposes, though.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories, Pawns Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I'm really happy with some of the talent named here. Mike Carey and Kelley Jones are both excellent with the horror genre, and I look forward to their respective books.

On another DC related note, I'm not going to spoil anything, but everyone should pick up Lois Lane #1 next week.


Cori,

I saw there was a preview for it, but I didn't actually read it. I might now that you recommended it.

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