Dirge of Doom + Memorable Trait


Rules Questions


Dirge of Doom bardic performance makes enemies shaken, Memorable trait says:

Quote:
When you modify attitude with Diplomacy or Intimidate, it lasts 50% longer. Whenever you create a fear or mind-affecting effect that lasts at least 2 rounds, it lasts an additional round.

So, if a Bard with the Memorable trait played Dirge of Doom for two rounds and then stopped, would the enemies continue being shaken for one round afterward? This is not even considering the Lingering Performance feat, mind you.

If so, would he be able to start another type of performance immediately, and have the two overlap (if only for a single round)?

This isn't anything broken, more like a quirky edge case, but if this works, it makes the Memorable trait slightly more worth considering for a Bard.


Looks like something that can be argued both ways, since Dirge of Doom is an effect that causes the shaken effect only 1 round at a time, but you are right, it isn't broken anyway.


Hmm...that is intriguing and I would have to say that it appears so and I would rule it as such.


Rudy2 wrote:

Dirge of Doom bardic performance makes enemies shaken, Memorable trait says:

Quote:
When you modify attitude with Diplomacy or Intimidate, it lasts 50% longer. Whenever you create a fear or mind-affecting effect that lasts at least 2 rounds, it lasts an additional round.

So, if a Bard with the Memorable trait played Dirge of Doom for two rounds and then stopped, would the enemies continue being shaken for one round afterward? This is not even considering the Lingering Performance feat, mind you.

If so, would he be able to start another type of performance immediately, and have the two overlap (if only for a single round)?

This isn't anything broken, more like a quirky edge case, but if this works, it makes the Memorable trait slightly more worth considering for a Bard.

I would say no.

Only because there are some abilities that specifically state how many rounds an effect lasts. Dirge of doom says:

"The effect persists for as long as the enemy is within 30 feet and the bard continues the performance. "
Numerically, it lasts two rounds, but affect wise it lasts as long as you continue performing it.

Also Lingering performance says:

"The bonuses and penalties from your bardic performance continue for 2 rounds after you cease performing. Any other requirement, such as range or specific conditions, must still be met for the effect to continue. If you begin a new bardic performance during this time, the effects of the previous performance immediately cease."

This feat specifically made for bardic performance even says that when you begin a new performance, the old effect ceases.

So let us say you took the trait and this feat. and Then you used dirge of doom.

You make it last 2 rounds.

If Memorable was true, then it would continue for an extra round.

However the feat Lingering performance would end it if you started another performance. Because lingering performance ceases all effects.

So in my humble opinion an ability or spell has to have "duration: At least 2 rounds" clearly written out for memorable to work.


-Grijm- wrote:
Looks like something that can be argued both ways, since Dirge of Doom is an effect that causes the shaken effect only 1 round at a time, but you are right, it isn't broken anyway.

Pretty much my thoughts.

Fourshadow wrote:
Hmm...that is intriguing and I would have to say that it appears so and I would rule it as such.

Yeah, I'd likely rule that way as a GM, only because... why not, really? It's not like it's anything approaching OP.

Fernn wrote:
snip

I respect the reasoning behind your stance, though what you say about Lingering Performance only applies if the character actually has the Lingering Performance feat. If they do not, there is nothing (to my awareness) that says performance bonuses cannot theoretically overlap. I agree that if they had the Lingering Performance feat, they could not overlap. Basically this would be an alternate to Lingering Performance, not something to combine with it.


Rudy2 wrote:
-Grijm- wrote:
Looks like something that can be argued both ways, since Dirge of Doom is an effect that causes the shaken effect only 1 round at a time, but you are right, it isn't broken anyway.

Pretty much my thoughts.

Fourshadow wrote:
Hmm...that is intriguing and I would have to say that it appears so and I would rule it as such.

Yeah, I'd likely rule that way as a GM, only because... why not, really? It's not like it's anything approaching OP.

Fernn wrote:
snip
I respect the reasoning behind your stance, though what you say about Lingering Performance only applies if the character actually has the Lingering Performance feat. If they do not, there is nothing (to my awareness) that says performance bonuses cannot theoretically overlap. I agree that if they had the Lingering Performance feat, they could not overlap. Basically this would be an alternate to Lingering Performance, not something to combine with it.

A trait that allows to bonuses or penalties to stack? Alright.

A feat that does almost the same thing, but does not allow it to stack? Sure.

Feats are suppose to be added bonuses to your character. In this case its the opposite. Can you tell me of another instance where a feat was hindering to a player?

You wish to knitpick the wording from a trait for a nice little extra affect. An effect that is replicated through a feat that has limitations.

Just go up to your GM and say

"Hey GM, Here is a trait that allows me to stack two bonus/penalties. Can I take it? Otherwise I would have to spend a feat that does the same thing, except I cant stack the bonuses/penalties"

I mean they literally gave an example in the trait page:

"For example, if you demoralize a foe with an Intimidate check and beat the DC by 5, the victim is shaken for 3 rounds instead of the usual 2 rounds."

The ability in question would have to have a designated amount of duration. Then if the duratation is at least 2, it adds 1 more.


Fernn wrote:

You wish to knitpick the wording from a trait for a nice little extra affect. An effect that is replicated through a feat that has limitations.

Just go up to your GM and say

"Hey GM, Here is a trait that allows me to stack two bonus/penalties. Can I take it? Otherwise I would have to spend a feat that does the same thing, except I cant stack the bonuses/penalties"

I mean they literally gave an example in the trait page:

"For example, if you demoralize a foe with an Intimidate check and beat the DC by 5, the victim is shaken for 3 rounds instead of the usual 2 rounds."

The ability in question would have to have a designated amount of duration. Then if the duratation is at least 2, it adds 1 more.

I mean, I would go up to the GM and ask that, but talking into a mirror is always a bit awkward, in my experience.

Mainly I'm always interested in looking into niche NPCs.

That being said, you make a good point about the feat limiting the character after the fact. Ultimately, I would probably let the trait just act like a weaker version of Lingering Performance: yes, the shaken trait lasts for an extra round, but it ends if you start a different performance.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder RPG / Rules Questions / Dirge of Doom + Memorable Trait All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.