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...Yes. Pathfinder is primarily a power fantasy.
The key word being "fantasy". As in, completely unrealistic. You should no more look up to any Pathfinder adventurer as a shining example of actions you should really take than you should the Punisher.
Saying someone "forfeits their right to live" is the most adolescent bit of the power fantasy. I used to think that way too when I was an edgy 14 year old, but presumably we're older than that, and should know better.
There is a vast gulf of difference between defending yourself from attack and actively seeking out people to kill.
It's all very well and good to enjoy media that follows a much simpler "the hero is right" paradigm but you're saying you wish someone like this was actually REAL which is something else completely.
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People like this are real. They work for assorted agencies and operate within those structures. Real lone wolves willing and able to take out murderers to prevent further murder are basically non-existent.
My problem with those kinds of predators keeping their lives as they destroy and take others' lives is that they are allowed to live.
They use murder as one of their tools for attaining and maintaining power.
What entitles these persons to live even as they take the lives of others for greed and/or amusement?
Real lone wolves willing and able to take out murderers to prevent further murder are basically non-existent.
For all the reasons I mentioned above, and more. I guarantee there have been a fair share of dumbasses who've TRIED to be Punisher, but they got put down pretty quick. Thankfully for all the innocent people who'd pay for it.
My problem with those kinds of predators keeping their lives as they destroy and take others' lives is that they are allowed to live.
They use murder as one of their tools for attaining and maintaining power.What entitles these persons to live even as they take the lives of others for greed and/or amusement?
What entitles you (or anyone) to appoint yourself judge, jury, and executioner to these people?
Edit: And actually, probably best to cut this here. Make a new thread on the merits of vigilante-ism if you'd like.
Hunting down those who prey on the innocent is normally the task of law enforcement. When such predators are shielded by the very laws that are supposed to deal with them, or by corruption of/within the 'system', there is going to arise expressions of frustration with that state. Such characters are one such expression, and the safest one at that.
When monsters are eating/killing your family and friends, you kill the monsters. Those that take lives for profit and/or amusement (or other twisted motivations) forfeit their right to live when doing so.
If they're an adolescent revenge fantasy, then so is almost every campaign we play in Pathfinder.
considering he kills jaywalkers, I find this to be a bit out there.
Can anyone make out the rest of the air date besides 2017?
The rumors are saying November 14th.
I find punisher interesting part of me enjoys that vengeance aspect of it. However I would never call him a hero, Or actively support what he does.
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I find punisher interesting part of me enjoys that vengeance aspect of it. However I would never call him a hero, Or actively support what he does.
That's probably because youre not a psychopath.
I'm generally a fan of the Marvel shows and movies and this particular depiction of Frank Castle is a little more empathic than in the comics. You dont really admire him but you understand why he's doing what he's doing and that he's just a little unhinged.
But reading the comments under the youtube posting of the trailer made my stomach turn and reminded me why I'm not a fan of the character and find his fanbase really, really VILE.
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Agreed, it's a testament to the actor and the writing that I am empathetic to this version of the Punisher, a character I had NO interest in the comic books. On film I look more forward to seeing him than the current way Iron Fist is being run, by an actor I do like.
You dont really admire him but you understand why he's doing what he's doing and that he's just a little unhinged.
A little? Maybe compared to the Joker, but gunboy is definitely a few fries short of a Happy Meal.
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Hell comic book frank join HYDRA! So...yeah Bernthal's Punisher is way more sympathetic.
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Apparently everyone has joined hydra... wtf marvel.
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If that is all it takes I should join hydra.
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Turns out its real easy to join.
Hail Hydra!
Bob is the poster boy for Hydra
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Slightly Stupid Hydra died about the time the Red Skull got his clone to get Xavier's brain.
At least it seems like it.
Overlap,
Yep. The Red Skull that got himself killed by Hydra-Cap was a clone. He also stole Xavier's brain.
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Agreed, it's a testament to the actor and the writing that I am empathetic to this version of the Punisher, a character I had NO interest in the comic books. On film I look more forward to seeing him than the current way Iron Fist is being run, by an actor I do like.
You dont really admire him but you understand why he's doing what he's doing and that he's just a little unhinged.A little? Maybe compared to the Joker, but gunboy is definitely a few fries short of a Happy Meal.
Absolutely. Until he appeared in Daredevil, I reely had no interest in The Punisher. As a husband and father I absolutely identify with the pain and rage, this version portrays. The fact that the skull motif ties in to the xrays of his injuries, which in a way excuses his actions with possible damage to the part of his brain that processes guilt, is perfect.
And the new trailer.....OMG
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I find punisher interesting part of me enjoys that vengeance aspect of it. However I would never call him a hero, Or actively support what he does.
While I have no intention of going out and doing what he does, I sort of wish he existed sometimes, when the sick and twisted that happens out there gets to me.
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considering he kills jaywalkers, I find this to be a bit out there.Hunting down those who prey on the innocent is normally the task of law enforcement. When such predators are shielded by the very laws that are supposed to deal with them, or by corruption of/within the 'system', there is going to arise expressions of frustration with that state. Such characters are one such expression, and the safest one at that.
When monsters are eating/killing your family and friends, you kill the monsters. Those that take lives for profit and/or amusement (or other twisted motivations) forfeit their right to live when doing so.
If they're an adolescent revenge fantasy, then so is almost every campaign we play in Pathfinder.
They threw that bit of nonsense out the window years ago. You don't let drunks write comics
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I find punisher interesting part of me enjoys that vengeance aspect of it. However I would never call him a hero, Or actively support what he does.While I have no intention of going out and doing what he does, I sort of wish he existed sometimes, when the sick and twisted that happens out there gets to me.
*nods*
“You hit them and they get back up. I hit them and they stay down.”
Whatever you think of murdering vigilantes, there are many who think that way. Who would support someone murdering criminals, with a death penalty doled out by a judge or a personal agenda and a handgun. This makes Punisher a very relevant character. A show about him could cut right too sharp societal issues with no clear answer.
If I were to make it, I'd keep the action sequences, his awesomeness, his force-of-natureness. And some of the time, his murders would actually solve problems for others. Some problems. Most of the time, though, I would explore consequences. Reasons vigilanteism is a problem. Innocent victims, copycats, and so on.
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Be curious if there’s ever any studies done on Vigilantism and how much it hurts/helps. They can hurt innocent victims and give room for copycats, sure, but so do the monsters they’re stopping, that’s their entire point. They create victims, they inspire others to create more victims. Look at all the Serial Killer fans.
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There's a pretty good chance that's exactly where this series is going. It's built upon his debate with Daredevil, and as a husband and father, that opening...makes me very much root for everyone responsible to get what's coming to them.
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Vigilantes can serve a positive purpose
Trust me, there are more people like this than you know, they don't advertise for the most part.
True Rysky. However, it is generally true that criminals have boundaries to stay within. If they become indiscriminate killers, they get more police focus.
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True Rysky. However, it is generally true that criminals have boundaries to stay within. If they become indiscriminate killers, they get more police focus.
The fact that they ignore boundaries is what makes them criminals, and note I specificied monsters, not criminals in general.
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Hence not advertising. Punisher is an anomaly in that he gets away operating in the open. But a world of superheroes is already predisposed to a positive view of outside agencies enforcing justice.
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Hence not advertising. Punisher is an anomaly in that he gets away operating in the open. But a world of superheroes is already predisposed to a positive view of outside agencies enforcing justice.
Especially in a world with supervillains and cardboard prisons, I can see people having a more positive view of someone like the Punisher.
True Rysky. However, it is generally true that criminals have boundaries to stay within. If they become indiscriminate killers, they get more police focus.The fact that they ignore boundaries is what makes them criminals, and note I specificied monsters, not criminals in general.
And monsters run into police trouble soon enough, typically.
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And monsters run into police trouble soon enough, typically.True Rysky. However, it is generally true that criminals have boundaries to stay within. If they become indiscriminate killers, they get more police focus.The fact that they ignore boundaries is what makes them criminals, and note I specificied monsters, not criminals in general.
That is not soon enough.
If it isn't, to you, what rights are you willing to give the police to prevent it?
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Established structures are unfortunately all too easy to corrupt or infiltrate.
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In any case, I heartily approve the use of One for this show. :)
If it isn't, to you, what rights are you willing to give the police to prevent it??
Not sure I understand your question.
If the time monsters can run around doing bad stuff is too long for your taste, what is your solution?
Do you want the police to get more leeway regarding civil liberties? Automatic access to all your data, say, in your phone? No warrant for searches? Less requirements before they can shoot you?
Or do you want thousands of Joe Random McViolents to pick up handguns and clean the streets of what they consider criminal acts?
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Time monsters?! Did the Time Lords suddenly devolve and I didn't notice?!
Neat. :)
I'm glad you think it's neat...
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If it isn't, to you, what rights are you willing to give the police to prevent it??
Not sure I understand your question.
If the time monsters can run around doing bad stuff is too long for your taste, what is your solution?
Do you want the police to get more leeway regarding civil liberties? Automatic access to all your data, say, in your phone? No warrant for searches? Less requirements before they can shoot you?
Or do you want thousands of Joe Random McViolents to pick up handguns and clean the streets of what they consider criminal acts?
Ah, “what rights are you willing to give up”, off the top of my head, guns.
It’d be nice for cops and courts to be more competent and efficient. As for your examples, they kinda already do all that. There’s pretty much no requirements for the last one.
Having caught myself and realizing we’re not talking about Punisher and his vigilantism anymore and are just talking about Politics we should probably drop this line of the conversation.
It's certainly more sensible grammatically speaking.
Back to Punisher, I'd love to see a kind meeting between Ennis' Punisher and maybe John Romita Sr. Punisher.
I could be wrong!