Alchemist extracts that can't target the alchemist


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There are a number of new spells in Arcane Anthologies which are on the Alchemist's extract list, but which cannot possibly target the alchemist. For example, the Full Pouch spell is listed as Alchemist 2, but the target is 1 object touched. There's at least 3 or 4 others with similar problems.

I've theorycrafted alchemists before but haven't yet played one, so... am I missing something here? I thought alchemist spells could only target the alchemist.

Designer

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These impossible extracts are errors that manage to slip through. Logan and I have been cracking down on this lately in the RPG line; I think we didn't have any in OA or UI (hopefully).

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Glad to hear I'm not insane, at least not any more than normal. Thanks for the clarification!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So, how should we interpret them?

Is the inclusion of an Alchemist level and error to ignore, or do we assume that the Alchemist drinks the extract and (in this case) touches the item?

Designer

Personally, I would ignore the alchemist level on anything an alchemist can't use.


Good to know.
Although a bit sad in some cases. I still love the idea of drinking and vomiting spells on stuff, or just pouring it on things.


Intereting, good to know. So basically any spells which the alchemist has on his extract list that aren't capable of being cast on them (and only them) should be removed from the list.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Leaving them in need of a bunch of new stuff that they can...


Full Pouch seems like a perfect thing for an alchemist to be able to do, which makes removing it not a totally desirable solution.

I happen to think that the weird mechanics of alchemist infusions, when compared to every other 'spell' casting class is more of a problem then the flavor gives it. Having to have 'academical material components' like clerics need a holy symbol would, for me anyway, satisfy the flavor without having to have a whole set of different mechanics and weird consequences (alchemists aren't spell casters so they can't make magic items is one example)


When I read the alchemist the first time, I noticed some extracts made little sense. I just decided that the affecting only the alchemist meant no one else could cast the spell, even if they poured it down their throat. In other words, Al Chemist drinks the potion, and seek thoughts treats him as the caster. Then he can affect someone by reading their mind.

Grand Lodge

One reason why having this on the alchemist list serves a purpose is Alchemists could use a Wand of those spells if the are low enough level without using UMD.


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It makes sense to me, there are plenty of spells that can be made into potions that do absolutely nothing as a potion. Like a potion of grease, or heat metal.

My assumption was always that extracts that the alchemist can't target themselves with are treated the same way as an oil would be. Or, if it's the case where you're using something that affects "X objects/creatures touched", then you "cast" it by drinking it and then delivering the actual effect through physical contact.


Diachronos wrote:
Or, if it's the case where you're using something that affects "X objects/creatures touched", then you "cast" it by drinking it and then delivering the actual effect through physical contact.

That's how I understood it as well.

Although Full Pouch specifically seems to be pretty useless due to the FAQ stating that drinking an extract is always a standard action. So, even though Full Pouch states that casting the spell is a swift action, it's still a standard action for the alchemist, seriously nerfing it. So, you drink it (standard action) and grab the item at the same time (move action) and then you don't even have enough time to use the item, seriously eating into your action economy.
Of course, it wouldn't make much sense that drinking some extracts would be a standard action while others would be a swift action. You're just drinking them, regardless of what formula they are. But it still makes this spell, which would be amazing for the alchemist otherwise, nigh-useless.


Like most things about the alchemist, the GM has to make choices. For me, details in the formula trumps the main rules about casting/mixing.

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