Conscious world building with magic in mind

[Crimeo]

SmiloDan wrote:

Maybe an anti-magic shell surrounding the structure?

Possibly maintained by an ongoing ritual? And definitely anchored to immobile structures, like standing stones or an anti-conjuring circle or running water. Maybe that can be a reason to keep moats in style?

Or maybe magic guardian pets that have auras of antimagic?

Possibly allowing it to be bypassed by a spellcaster using a special component or badge or insignia or bloodline?

He said assuming Golarion. Antimagic fields are both not on the Golarion permanency list and are also not even castable on locations (personal emanation only around the caster). Also OP said that level 10+ casters (includes AMF) are too rare for any but the most prestigious locations.

@OP: Unfortunately I don't think you CAN play in Golarion and have magic and society make any sense as-is. Society would probably completely collapse or be utterly utterly alien as magic is written in Golarion.

Some things like invisibility and scrying are very easy to beat, but a ton of other stuff isn't, mostly other divinations and illusions and enchantment and teleportation (though with your caster level limit, circles and demiplanes and such the real bad things aren't quite as bad), and supernatural abilities like Kitsune realistic likeness, etc.

You pretty much have to suspend disbelief, unless you want to start with a blank piece of paper and spend a few months conceptualizing from the ground up, and be prepared for a bizarro world that players may not find fun, since they won't be able to jump into play quickly or easily (will have to learn a bunch of weird backstory and how the world works can't rely on tropes)

[Greylurker]

You do need to consider just how many PC classes are around vs. NPC classes. If most of your spell casters in the world are Adepts instead of Clerics and Wizards it changes what kind of magic is easily available.

In a world with mostly Adepts anything above a 5th level spell is going to be viewed as "holy crap, hero of legend" stuff. Powerful Wizards are going to demand a premium and Powerful Clerics are going to be seen as Living Saints walking amongst men. These kind of people might not be up for sale and buying their services might be more than most people can deal with even among the very rich.

If the PC classes are relatively available then the 6th+ level spells are easier to get your hands on for those with money.

I remember Eberron made a point of having Adepts equipped with resusable Wands for local services. a Lamp Lighter could be an Adept with a Wand of Light going around the city at night. Likewise an Army could have several Adepts equiped with Wands of Fireball or Lightning bolt. Eberron's eternal Wands had like 2 uses/day so a unit of 5 Adepts each carrying an Eternal Wand of Lightning Bolt was a handy Artillery Unit.

[Crimeo]

Quote:

You do need to consider just how many PC classes are around vs. NPC classes.

One major problem with not having many PC leveled characters around is that it starts to become wildly implausible and immersion-breaking whenever characters die to just happen to right then find another 1 in 1,000,000 5th level PC hanging out in the tavern around the corner that the player rolled up new.

Also, not every encounter can be a boss fight, so the armies of low level adepts necessary to provide a challenge to mid level PCs the rest of the time will really slow combat down to extreme levels.

[Avoron]

Crimeo wrote:

He said assuming Golarion. Antimagic fields are both not on the Golarion permanency list and are also not even castable on locations (personal emanation only around the caster). Also OP said that level 10+ casters (includes AMF) are too rare for any but the most prestigious locations.

Hallow (or unhallow) actually works pretty well as the poor man's permanent antimagic field.

[Deadmanwalking]

This sounds like a job for my Level Demographics thread, which is heavily based on the Settlement rules, which are official in Golarion.

In short, if rounding up by assuming half of PC class characters are full-casters, 1 in something like 2500 people, so 4 out of 10,000 are 9th level or higher full spell-casters and thus might even have abilities that fall into the 'might shake things up' category that aren't stopped by beaded curtains and lead in the walls, and of those half or so seem likely to be Spontaneous and thus have very limited spell selections...so call it one each Cleric and Wizard in 10,000 people who can actually manage any game-breakers.

That's a small enough number of people that countering them is the province of other people of similar power and major nations rather than most individuals, or even individual nobles.

[Mathius]

A plane with several gates back to the material plane can connect every important site it the world easily. The cost of two permanent castings is quite low compared to the trade value of the new road.

An animated object can be given a fly speed the str carry many thousands of tons. Can also be done with undead or trained dinos.

Traps allow the spamming of spells (the should require ammo) to point where a raise dead and remove disease trap be in every town.

Fabricate allows mass production.

Levitate allows floating platforms for defense.

[Crimeo]

Avoron wrote:

Crimeo wrote:

He said assuming Golarion. Antimagic fields are both not on the Golarion permanency list and are also not even castable on locations (personal emanation only around the caster). Also OP said that level 10+ casters (includes AMF) are too rare for any but the most prestigious locations.

Hallow (or unhallow) actually works pretty well as the poor man's permanent antimagic field.

Interesting, I missed this comment. I'm not really sure that's how it would work, though...

Dispel magic is an instantaneous spell, which is longer even than permanent. It doesn't really gain any clear BENEFIT to have a guarantee year length duration to a spell that already lasts for eternity.

The most logical result is simply a single dispel occurrance upon the casting of hallow, on everything in the hallow area, the end. Which is already a great deal on its own.

Two reasons for anything more than that to not happen: 1) reductio ad absurdum. An infinitely continuous activation use dispel magic wondrous item acting on many items at once would be like... a million gold. 2) I don't see anything in the rules that suggest a spell gets RE-CAST constantly during the year. Only that the "EFFECT" lasts a year. In this case, as mentioned above, for an effect that already lasts a year (but you are getting a larger and radius burst version out of the deal)

[doc the grey]

SmiloDan wrote:

My main concern are fiends that can teleport at will.

They can murder murder murder teleport somewhere new murder murder murder teleport somewhere new murder murder murder teleport somewhere old (for zest) murder murder murder, repeat until bored.

And boredom is probably the only force in the 'verse that can stop 'em, since they can use hit and run tactics across distances vaster and faster than the speed of communication.

I think someone mentioned this earlier but one of the biggest stopgaps for something like that is the fact that they live on another plane of existence and for the most part like being their or have a very difficult time getting there and back. Most fiends don't have the ability to transverse the planes by their own volition and need either magical knowledge, more powerful fiendish patrons, or a contact on the other side that can get you through all of which come with their own problems. You gotta study alot or get access to the knowledge for the former, pledge yourself to someone and their goals, or somehow manage to get your contact info over to the material plane and make it enticing enough that someone on their bites which is basically throwing out a message in a bottle and hoping for the best. On top of that you have the issue of the material plane itself which is likely not an outsiders favorite place to begin with. Fiends have to curb their behavior in order to not be caught and killed along with having to avoid acting too publicly in most settings since they would likely draw the ire of local law, church, or adventurer hungry for loot. This is exacerbated for non evil outsiders since they usually have less selfish compunctions than fiends and yet are likely in a world far less to their liking. The Material Plane is a den of sin and awful compared to the hallowed halls of the heavenly planes, a chaotic nightmare compared to axis, and this rigid solidity compared to the Maelstrom. Most of them likely don't want to be here very long or if they do seek places where their homes bleed into our own.