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...the Shadow Lodge, and it's spiritual descendants. As there may be spoiler-iffic information in there, could someone boil it down to a nutshell without revealing too much from given scenarios?
I've heard the reason it isn't allowed as a faction anymore is because it was 'too good'.
I've also heard that it was because everyone wanted to join it because it was the only 'sane' faction.
I'm trying to learn a bit more about the history there...
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Neither of those things is correct.
The Shadow Lodge arose as a coup attempt, as a group of agents tried to take over the Society from within. This attempt was defeated, and many of the rogue agents were accepted back into the fold under the leadership of Grandmaster Torch. (This is when it became a player option as a faction.)
Torch ran the Shadow Lodge like a union, acting almost like the Society's Health and Safety Committee - he felt that the Decemvirate were entirely too casual with their agents' lives. (There is of course much evidence to support this view.)
Then, things happened, and Grandmaster Torch left the Society, leaving his Shadow Lodge leaderless, confused, and fragmented. Then more things happened.
It is no longer a player option, IMO, because the plots it was concerned with are finished (much like the Lantern Lodge's situation). However, there are still Shadow Lodge "members" out there, silently holding the Decemvirate to account for the agents they send into harm's way. Those members left seem to have an undying loyalty to the Shadow Lodge, despite the fact that it has twice tried to destroy the Society.
As a Grand Lodge Loyalist, I'm glad the Shadow Lodge is not a player option any more - it started to confuse a lot of new players, encouraged intra-party conflict, and made it very difficult to run an entire season's worth of scenarios after the fact. As a player, I'm also glad it WAS an option - and that it's still "out there" as an unofficial group, balancing the Decemvirate, and ready to spring back into action if the situation requires.
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Sometimes all three at once. Every time it transitioned, the shadow lodge schism-ed.
So when they were defeated but accepted back into the fold, not all of them accepted defeat, and some stayed out there to carry on the fight. Some of them may still be out there. When Torch left, some of the shadow lodge stayed to carry on the work of holding the decemvierate to account, and others left, and probably some of them went back to their old ways.
Another Factor (though probably not a solely deciding one) is that this was during the time of individual faction missions. 10 factions means 10 faction missions for every scenario, and the quality of them really went down hill in some scenarios...
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So the Shadow Lodge was sort of outlaws, then loyal opposition, and now the quietly observing party waiting for the Decemvirate to do something completely off the mark so they can step up and say 'Look, this is messed up, fix it.'?
Personally, I always explained the non-evil Shadow Lodge as the Pathfinder Society union. Torch was sticking up for the common Pathfinder and trying to keep the masked bosses honest.
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There were two seemingly different things in place. The season 1-2 Torch the schemer that the society turned to for information, and grandmaster torch the pathfinder union rep who, despite holding meetings in his bathtub sometimes seemed to be the sanest man in the society and was the only one who cared if you came back alive. Which one is the "real" or true version of the character probably depends on which one you met first. For me and many others its the later version in first steps II
While there was nothing wrong with schemer torch (after all, the society can hardly complain that someone else looks to their own interests first when the society does the same thing) The move back from Union rep torch to Schemer torch came with him kicking the dog HARD, and worse, for no apparent reason. While there may not be a reason for the Decimverate to keep him around in season 4, many pathfinders have a hard time finding a reason to keep him ALIVE. Plot armor against npcs is kind of accepted in any form of fiction, plot armor against PCs start to grate.
The only real remnant of it is the "spirit of the shadowlodge" boon which gives you a discount when you buy things for another PC if you earned a certain number of credits for the lodge on a character
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There were two seemingly different things in place. The season 1-2 Torch the schemer that the society turned to for information, and grandmaster torch the pathfinder union rep who, despite holding meetings in his bathtub sometimes seemed to be the sanest man in the society and was the only one who cared if you came back alive. Which one is the "real" or true version of the character probably depends on which one you met first. For me and many others its the later version in first steps II
While there was nothing wrong with schemer torch (after all, the society can hardly complain that someone else looks to their own interests first when the society does the same thing) The move back from Union rep torch to Schemer torch came with him kicking the dog HARD, and worse, for no apparent reason. While there may not be a reason for the Decimverate to keep him around in season 4, many pathfinders have a hard time finding a reason to keep him ALIVE. Plot armor against npcs is kind of accepted in any form of fiction, plot armor against PCs start to grate.
The only real remnant of it is the "spirit of the shadowlodge" boon which gives you a discount when you buy things for another PC if you earned a certain number of credits for the lodge on a character
In addition to what BNW said, there is at least one scenario after season four that mentions that some Shadow Lodgers are keeping on, holding up the ideals of the Shadow Lodge even without (or maybe in spite of) Torch.
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So there is the possibility that Grandmaster Torch got 'burnt' and this is just the feedback from being hosed, and he's actually trying to make things right *again* and at some future point a similarly aligned faction could arise that isn't as disruptive but has the ideals of a 'Pathfinder union' at heart?
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So there is the possibility that Grandmaster Torch got 'burnt' and this is just the feedback from being hosed, and he's actually trying to make things right *again* and at some future point a similarly aligned faction could arise that isn't as disruptive but has the ideals of a 'Pathfinder union' at heart?
How grandmaster torch got burnt is known. It didn't get nearly the prominence in the scenario that it deserved, but the information is there.
Its unlikely. Factions aren't getting enough limelight as it is, putting more in would involve taking some out.
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Whenever another pathfinder chips in for a resurrection, there we are.
Whenever a pathfinder loads up with buff spells to that another party member can shine, there we are.
Whenever the healer starts off the session with a fistful of platinum rings handed out to the party, there we are.
Whenever a bent, battered and burned wayfinder is brought back to the lodge as the only remembrance for a fallen comrades family and friends, there we are.
Wherever there's an adventurer squeegied of a dungeon floor and brought back to skyreach, there we are.
Wherever there's someone delaying so they can set up a flank for the rogue, there we are.
Shadowlodge for life!
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^^ This is the best answer. Really, the Shadow Lodge does what the Grand Lodge once did - look out for its agents while pursuing the goals of the Society. There are those who believe the Grand Lodge has gotten better; there are those who point to the Shadow Lodge's influence as the catalyst for that improvement.
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You might also want to check out the The PFS Story So Far handouts, as they are fairly spoiler-free "What Happened During Season X" items.
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My interpretation is that the Shadow Lodge and Lantern Lodge both wrapped up for the same two reasons: word count and dynamism. Outside the story realm, I believe these two factions had the fewest players at the time and there was a push to reduce the writing burden. The plot was then directed to remove the factions, which was to reflect the in-game effects of low participation. The fact that Taldor didn't get the chop at the time astounded the heck out of me.
As others mentioned, the faction setup at the time was intense. 10 faction missions, some of them in opposition, sucked out a lot of creative juices. It led to "omniscient faction leaders" knowing about things in the adventure that they should have no clue about (for example, why would a faction leader know that there is a candy dish with a specific insignia on it an unexplored site inside the Hao-Jin Tapestry?). Removing "spare" factions was the first attempt at remedying the writing problem associated with the count, followed by the removal of faction mission prestige conditions. Good changes, both.
What's particularly nice here is that it has resulted in some very interesting character stories in which a character has pledged to a faction, but tries to maintain the union-mentality of the Shadow Lodge. I always love coming across a pro-Torch conspiracy theorist character because they're driven and have motivations.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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As others mentioned, the faction setup at the time was intense. 10 faction missions, some of them in opposition, sucked out a lot of creative juices. It led to "omniscient faction leaders" knowing about things in the adventure that they should have no clue about (for example, why would a faction leader know that there is a candy dish with a specific insignia on it an unexplored site inside the Hao-Jin Tapestry?).
My favorite by far was "We don't know where this portal goes, or whats on the other side, but if you see a yeti on the other side, can you bring me back some of it's fur." "Hey guys, I think we should pick up some cold weather gear."
(It has been a while, details may be a bit fuzzy, but that was the general gist.)
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As others mentioned, the faction setup at the time was intense. 10 faction missions, some of them in opposition, sucked out a lot of creative juices. It led to "omniscient faction leaders" knowing about things in the adventure that they should have no clue about (for example, why would a faction leader know that there is a candy dish with a specific insignia on it an unexplored site inside the Hao-Jin Tapestry?).
My favorite by far was "We don't know where this portal goes, or whats on the other side, but if you see a yeti on the other side, can you bring me back some of it's fur." "Hey guys, I think we should pick up some cold weather gear."
(It has been a while, details may be a bit fuzzy, but that was the general gist.)
I liked the one where the mission was "Go see what's going on at the museum"; each faction mission referenced going to a different part of the city, and one of them said "When you fight X monster..."
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I really liked the idea of the other factions. Latern lodge was a chance to offer something extoic. Shadow lodge was a secret faction, and sczarni was the smugglers.
From my opinion lantern lodge was ignored and failed because they were not given the attention. Their exit was forced but done in an alright swan song.
Shadow lodge was also not given enough love. Since it started adversarial some people thought that faction was adversarial. The way to remove this faction was so forced and poorly done I felt insulted. For what seemed liken no reason, and after 2 years that reason still seems a mystery. Plus with magic and such what he does in his swan song is hugely moronic for such a high profile character.
To make up for removing these two factions they offered way to good of a reward to people of this faction. Another foolish move in my opinion.
sczarni was one of my favorite factions. These were the morally lacking pathfinders with special skills. I honestly felt people outside of the game bemoaned that pathfinders needed to remove the criminal aspect of it's group(anyhow they largely are criminals in many areas and do criminal activity consistently).
Removing these factions I feel was the wrong move. Maybe it was too difficult to write all these interesting lines for this game would have been a decent reason, but I see the factions get less and less attention anyway. That is also a shame. As this was am obvious improvement added to the org play genre. Poor implementation of a great idea by putting the work in poor hands is not the fault of the idea.
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Removing these factions I feel was the wrong move. Maybe it was too difficult to write all these interesting lines for this game would have been a decent reason, but I see the factions get less and less attention anyway.
I disagree. I see players paying a lot *more* attention to factions. Most players really didn't care what was going on with zarta and cheliax. But the idea of chasing down really scary stuff and putting it where their overly curious friends can't use it to call down armagedon really appeals to a lot of players. Similarly with many of the others. Silver Crusaders are vigilant for evil priests, undead, and outsiders that they can put in their place, and many carry some very expensive expendables to use on their friends. Liberties edge are pure death to slavers.
The new faction reward sheets let each faction to fulfill some of their goals in almost every scenario, and the ability to insert one faction, in depth, into a scenario means that we actually get to meet and interact with faction heads, and develop really interesting side plots, as opposed to simple fetch missions.
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Removing these factions I feel was the wrong move. Maybe it was too difficult to write all these interesting lines for this game would have been a decent reason, but I see the factions get less and less attention anyway.I disagree. I see players paying a lot *more* attention to factions. Most players really didn't care what was going on with zarta and cheliax. But the idea of chasing down really scary stuff and putting it where their overly curious friends can't use it to call down armagedon really appeals to a lot of players. Similarly with many of the others. Silver Crusaders are vigilant for evil priests, undead, and outsiders that they can put in their place, and many carry some very expensive expendables to use on their friends. Liberties edge are pure death to slavers.
The new faction reward sheets let each faction to fulfill some of their goals in almost every scenario, and the ability to insert one faction, in depth, into a scenario means that we actually get to meet and interact with faction heads, and develop really interesting side plots, as opposed to simple fetch missions.
I see half of the players using their factions sheets. They are hardly a part of scenarios anymore. They were meant to have this pivotal story-line in season 5 that was hyped bought I thought were very weak. I think since the opinion of the poor job done on them removed them from the storyline.
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I see half of the players using their factions sheets. They are hardly a part of scenarios anymore. They were meant to have this pivotal story-line in season 5 that was hyped bought I thought were very weak. I think since the opinion of the poor job done on them removed them from the storyline.
I don't see this as a problem, but I'm one of those people who sees the faction choice as "which is the least worst fit" rather than actually wanting to take part in them. I get that some players really like the factions and that it helps some segment of players with building the personality of their characters. I'm just not one of 'em.
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Whenever another pathfinder chips in for a resurrection, there we are.
Whenever a pathfinder loads up with buff spells to that another party member can shine, there we are.
Whenever the healer starts off the session with a fistful of platinum rings handed out to the party, there we are.
Whenever a bent, battered and burned wayfinder is brought back to the lodge as the only remembrance for a fallen comrades family and friends, there we are.
Wherever there's an adventurer squeegied of a dungeon floor and brought back to skyreach, there we are.
Wherever there's someone delaying so they can set up a flank for the rogue, there we are.
Shadowlodge for life!
Can we get this in t-shirt and/or inspirational poster form?
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The white zone is for loading and unloading vehicles only?
No. The red zone is for loading and unloading vehicles only. There is no stopping in the white zone.
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Most of the remnants of Shadowlodge are seeker level characters at this point. We meet up every other week for beers and discuss all the crazy situations we have been told to jump into with our squeegees.
We get really annoyed when a player gets plane shifted, drowns a mile below sea level, or is eaten by a dragon. Sorting through a dead dragons last meal is not a fun ordeal.
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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sczarni was one of my favorite factions. These were the morally lacking pathfinders with special skills. I honestly felt people outside of the game bemoaned that pathfinders needed to remove the criminal aspect of it's group(anyhow they largely are criminals in many areas and do criminal activity consistently).Removing these factions I feel was the wrong move. Maybe it was too difficult to write all these interesting lines for this game would have been a decent reason, but I see the factions get less and less attention anyway. That is also a shame. As this was am obvious improvement added to the org play genre. Poor implementation of a great idea by putting the work in poor hands is not the fault of the idea.
Ooo boy you're going to be really happy to find out that the Sczarni are still technically a faction with the Exchange. Hell they even show up in the season 7 metaplot.
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I liked the one where the mission was "Go see what's going on at the museum"; each faction mission referenced going to a different part of the city, and one of them said "When you fight X monster..."
I always rolled my eyes at the Silver Crusade missions that were just platitudes, not missions. As a Silver Crusader in seasons 3 and 4, I got "Be nice to strangers", "Don't kill anyone unless you have to", and "Don't let any of your allies die" as faction missions. Unfortunately, I failed that last one (and it ended up being a PC perma-death).
No, it's where the dimensional fallout from portal experiments is funneled.
No, that's the Dark Archive.
But back on topic: My very first Society game was First Steps 3, where my barbarian met Grandmaster Torch and joined the Shadow Lodge. Watching out for each other seemed like a good ideal, and his loyalty to his friends ended up becoming a defining personality characteristic for that PC.
At level 14, now a Venture-Capture, "Mash" the barbarian is still in the Shadow Lodge. I haven't played him since the faction went away, so I haven't been forced to change factions. I keep saying I'd offer to let PFS management permanently turn him into an NPC, if they want to use him as a leader for a new version of the Shadow Lodge.
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Yeah, my two Sczarni PCs weren't happy with the change, either.
My sorceress who joined the Sczarni "family" while growing up in Riddleport, long before becoming a Pathfinder, ended up switching factions to Dark Archive. It's always been about power for her, not money.
Green Beard the Pirate decided to stick with The Exchange, but he doesn't like all this merchant stuff, or that the faction card won't let him use intimidation for anything (his only social skill as a half-orc with 7 charisma and a SCZARNI FACTION TRAIT!!! that gives him an intimidation bonus).
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I liked the one where the mission was "Go see what's going on at the museum"; each faction mission referenced going to a different part of the city, and one of them said "When you fight X monster..."I always rolled my eyes at the Silver Crusade missions that were just platitudes, not missions. As a Silver Crusader in seasons 3 and 4, I got "Be nice to strangers", "Don't kill anyone unless you have to", and "Don't let any of your allies die" as faction missions. Unfortunately, I failed that last one (and it ended up being a PC perma-death).
No, it's where the dimensional fallout from portal experiments is funneled.No, that's the Dark Archive.
But back on topic: My very first Society game was First Steps 3, where my barbarian met Grandmaster Torch and joined the Shadow Lodge. Watching out for each other seemed like a good ideal, and his loyalty to his friends ended up becoming a defining personality characteristic for that PC.
At level 14, now a Venture-Capture, "Mash" the barbarian is still in the Shadow Lodge. I haven't played him since the faction went away, so I haven't been forced to change factions. I keep saying I'd offer to let PFS management permanently turn him into an NPC, if they want to use him as a leader for a new version of the Shadow Lodge.
Actually, doesn't all that stuff wind up at the Museum? They always have the interesting-but-weird displays, the ones that stand up and chase you down, after all.
As to Shadow Lodge, my first experience with GMT was in Silent Tide, so GMT-as-friend is a very foreign concept, GMT-as-jerk was his MO, and made that exit scenario very convincing, since it fit his MO and lack of anything approaching foresight (which was also something he shared with the PFS group he was once part of, if they had been prepared, they wouldn't have died)
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Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro
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Sovereign Court is much better.
Sovereign Court disturbingly enough is one of the most benign factions ever. I think I have four or five check marks on that thing just by solely finishing the adventure and doing nothing more. Hell most of the adventures are structured that they usually end up completely a faction mission just by the adventure.