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Normally you can't use Liberating Command on yourself because it is an immediate action to cast and use.
However, can you ready to cast Liberating Command, for example, as soon as the next turn starts, consumes your Standard and then use your immediate to escape?
I think this works, wanted to get opinions.
No, because you're only allowed one immediate per turn, and the readied action rules don't override that. Basically, readying an immediate action allows you to interrupt something (instead of merely responding to it) but otherwise still burns your immediate action for the turn.
Ready actions use your Standard, does this mean you lose both your standard and immediate when you ready an immediate action?
Yes.
If you ready a swift action do you lose your swift action for that turn as well?
As far as I can tell, yes.
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I am not sure I agree with that.
I think by using your Standard to ready an immediate action, it becomes a standard action and therefore you are capable of using an immediate action.
The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so).
Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.
Immediate Action: An immediate action is very similar to a swift action, but can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.
So we know you can ready a swift action. We know immediate are very like a swift action. I am not sure if they are similar enough to qualify under the ready clause.
We know you can perform only one swift action a turn. Does that mean that when you ready it counts as a swift? or standard?
I am not sure what takes precedence.
An immediate action taken on your turn is your swift action for that turn. As in, if you have an ability that requires an immediate action to undertake, on your turn you may activate that ability, and it is a swift action. Said another way, an immediate action is actually a swift action that can be taken outside of your turn, consuming your swift action from your next turn.
I think by using your Standard to ready an immediate action, it becomes a standard action and therefore you are capable of using an immediate action.
That's not what the rules say, though.
The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so).
Readying an Action: You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.
Immediate Action: An immediate action is very similar to a swift action, but can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.
The rules are clear that the action-of-readying is different than the action-that-you-ready. The first doesn't provoke, but the second might.
While the action-of-readying a swift action is itself a standard action, the action-that-you-ready remains a swift one.
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You can't cast the spell on yourself because it's an immediate action to cast the spell, and then a second immediate action to make the escape artist check allowed by the spell.Did you read the actual post or just go off the thread name?
I was replaying to Anguish, as to why the spell would not work when you cast it on yourself.
Readying an action requires a standard action, but it doesn't actually change what type of action was readied, so it wouldn't work even with a readied action.
An immediate action taken on your turn is your swift action for that turn. As in, if you have an ability that requires an immediate action to undertake, on your turn you may activate that ability, and it is a swift action. Said another way, an immediate action is actually a swift action that can be taken outside of your turn, consuming your swift action from your next turn.
One implication of this, by the way, is that it's largely pointless to ready an immediate action. The only reason that one would do so is to explicitly interrupt the trigger, if the immediate action did not itself do so (most do -- see, for example, the windy escape spell).
Personally, I'd disallow this tactic anyways because "as soon as the next turn starts" isn't an event but an abstract game concept, but you could get a similar effect by triggering on a real event that happened to go earlier in the round than your turn, such as your rogue's action.
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I think this would actually work. Keep in mind that readying an action changes your initiative and that using an immediate action outside of your turn uses your next round's swift action.
Round 1) Creature grapples you. On your turn, you ready an action to cast Liberating Command if the creature maintains their grapple on the next round. This uses your standard action from round 1.
Round 2) The creature maintains the grapple successfully. Your readied action goes off and you cast Liberating Command before the creature can squeeze for damage. Your initiative now falls just before the creature, and you will not go again until Round 3. You should now be able to use an immediate action to try to escape, which would use up your swift action for Round 3. Assume it is successful.
Round 3) You are now before the creature in initiative and can withdraw to move away from it before it can initiate a new grapple. You do not have a swift action for this round, because it was used by your immediate action.
At least I think that's how it would work.
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If you ready a swift action do you lose your swift action for that turn as well?As far as I can tell, yes.
Really? And if you ready a standard action, you lose your standard action on your next turn and can only take a move action?
My group has always played that whether you ready a standard, move, or swift action, you always consume exactly one standard action, on the turn in which you ready. So on your next turn you have a full round of actions. Since you wouldn't have consumed an immediate action (instead using your standard action to do something that usually takes an immediate action) you would still have an immediate action to use.
One implication of this, by the way, is that it's largely pointless to ready an immediate action. The only reason that one would do so is to explicitly interrupt the trigger, if the immediate action did not itself do so (most do -- see, for example, the windy escape spell).
Or if you want to use two immediate actions between one turn and the next, as in the OP. And it seems like trading your standard action to to this is a perfectly fair cost to me.
Personally, I'd disallow this tactic anyways because "as soon as the next turn starts" isn't an event but an abstract game concept, but you could get a similar effect by triggering on a real event that happened to go earlier in the round than your turn, such as your rogue's action.
Agreed, you'd want a concrete trigger.
Really? And if you ready a standard action, you lose your standard action on your next turn and can only take a move action?If you ready a swift action do you lose your swift action for that turn as well?As far as I can tell, yes.
No, because there's no if-you-use-your-standard-action-outside-of-your-turn-you-lose-it rule.
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You don't lose your standard action, but you do have to wait a full turn between standard actions. To elaborate on what I listed above, since readying an action actually changes your initiative score, you can't use it to get 2 standard actions on one turn.
Say your round 1 initiative is 10. The creature's initiative is 12.
Round 1, Initiative 12) The creature goes.
Round 1, Initiative 10) You ready an action.
Round 2, Initiative 12) The creature goes, triggering your readied action. Your initiative now becomes 12 (or 12.1 if you'd like) and you act just before the creature. The creature finishes its turn.
Round 2, Initiative 10) Nothing happens. You don't get a turn, because your initiative is now 12.
Round 3, Initiative 12) You go now, before the creature that triggered your readied action. Then the creature goes.
So while you don't "lose" your standard action for Round 2, because of the readied action's effect on initiative, you do, essentially, skip a turn.
However, after your readied action triggers to cast Liberating Command, you should be able to spend Round 3's swift action for the immediate action taken in Round 2 to try to escape.
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It's not really accurate to say you skip a turn, because that would mean everyone gets another action before you do. You just delay your turn so that some other people get another action before you do. It's easier to see with more people acting.
A (acts on Count 20): Something happens
B (acts on Count 15): Ready action
C (acts on Count 10): Something happens
D (acts on Count 5): Action Triggers
You then return to Count 20, and in the next round B acts on Count 5, just before D. They've pushed their turn back after C, but still act before D and A get another turn.
B (acts on Count 15): Ready action
C (acts on Count 10): Something Happens
D (acts on Count 5): Something Happens
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A (acts on Count 20): Action Triggers
Then B doesn't act on the next count 15 but does acts on the next Count 20 just before A, meaning that C and D get another turn before B, but A still doesn't. If C readied an action that triggered during A's turn, only D would get another turn before C acts again, just like in the first example, even though C is technically acting in the "next round."
Really? And if you ready a standard action, you lose your standard action on your next turn and can only take a move action?If you ready a swift action do you lose your swift action for that turn as well?As far as I can tell, yes.No, because there's no if-you-use-your-standard-action-outside-of-your-turn-you-lose-it rule.
But you're not using your standard (or immediate) action outside your turn, you're using a standard action on your turn to take a standard (or immediate) action outside your turn.
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action. To do so, specify the action you will take and the conditions under which you will take it. Then, anytime before your next action, you may take the readied action in response to that condition. The action occurs just before the action that triggers it. If the triggered action is part of another character's activities, you interrupt the other character. Assuming he is still capable of doing so, he continues his actions once you complete your readied action. Your initiative result changes. For the rest of the encounter, your initiative result is the count on which you took the readied action, and you act immediately ahead of the character whose action triggered your readied action.
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You are correct. You don't technically skip a turn either. But when the readied action doesn't go off until it's almost your initiative in the next round, it feels like you skipped a turn. But really it's just been delayed almost an entire turn.
Either way, as you mentioned, you take the standard action on your original turn to ready an action. Then your turn ends. You now have an immediate action available, so when your readied action goes off to cast the spell, you should be able to take an immediate action using your next turn's swift.