Seeking a First World Viewpoint: A Polite Inquiry into Fey Thoughts and Its Ban


Pathfinder Society

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Lantern Lodge Customer Service Manager

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Removed a post. Really, the back and forth needs to stop.

Lantern Lodge Customer Service Manager

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Rereading things, I've unremoved a post. I got a little trigger happy and I apologize. Please do be wary of arguing about how or why people feel something is important. Inquiries are fine and can help provide context, but when it devolves into back and forth posting about what motivations might be, it really detracts from the conversation.

3/5 **** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro

N N 959 wrote:
Jurassic Pratt wrote:
@N N 959 So the crux of your argument seems to be that all gnome casters would take this alt racial trait over the existing one, so it shouldn't be allowed.

That's not quite accurate. First off, If I am PFS, the concern is I'm allowing a race to dump something that is useless for something is useful, which means it comes at almost no sacrifice or cost. Second, I personally don't care whether it is allowed or not. So please don't insinuate or suggest that I'm advocating based on some personal preference.

Quote:
If Half Orcs can have Toothy (Free Primary Bite Attack) and Sacred Tattoo (+1 bonus to all saving throws)
PRD wrote:
Orc Ferocity: Once per day, when a half-orc is brought below 0 hit points but not killed, he can fight on for 1 more round as if disabled. At the end of his next turn, unless brought to above 0 hit points, he immediately falls unconscious and begins dying.

Orc Ferocity is useful potentially useful to all classes.

Toothy and Sacred Tattoo, are not automatically a better choice, imo. There is no debate by anyone in this thread that a gnome caster (outside of a possible Magus) is going to dump gnome Weapon Familiarity for Fey Thoughts, because they can't even use any of the gnome weapons. And, it's likely that even a gnome fighter might do it.

Ok. I'm legitimately curious as to something I've never found useful as a half orc is at all ever useful compared to the ability that helps prevent my character from dying from a times three crit weapon.


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I agree that it would be a no-brainer on some Gnome builds. However, I don't really consider that a problem for three reasons: first because that's normal for a racial trait - non-casting elves trade away Elven Magic, single-class half-elves trade away Multitalented, and so on. Second because although this will provide a small boost to Gnomes, I don't believe boosting Gnomes will make Gnomes overpowered compared to other races, nor do I think there will be a wave of overpowered Gnome builds. Third, because any skill that was really essential to a build was already going to be a class skill somehow, so this is going to boost secondary skills leading to wider builds rather than deeper specialist ones.

Powerwise, someone compared it to Skill Focus and hence claimed it a two-feat boost, but it's closer to Extra Traits, and since most class-skill traits also get a trait+1 or some other boost, it's not as good as that. Also I think it's very appropriate for PFS, given how much PFS loves skill checks.

Also, somewhat off-topic, but with regards to gnome weapons, I don't think they're bad per se. I do think though most of them are pretty bad for Gnomes. Usually strength-based weaponry, usually with a combat manoeuvre focus, on a size small race with a strength penalty? Cool ideas, not so good implementation.

2/5 *** Venture-Agent, Texas—Austin

It's not entirely fair to compare Fey Thoughts to Skill Focus or Additional Traits (or skill focus for that matter). Traits that turn skills into class skills are often conflicting with one another within the same category. Several traits that make UMD a class skill, for instance, are magic traits. This precludes a player who takes that trait from also taking something like Pragmatic Activator (Int to UMD), Magical Lineage, or Magical Knack.

Fey Thoughts, whether on a gnome or otherwise, bypasses those decisions and very easily allows a player fill class skill gaps for whatever class they happen to be. It effectively opens up their trait selection to that second tier of traits that more directly alter how their character plays; the non-class skill options.

I'm not saying it's necessarily overpowered, but I think people are understating the inherent advantage the flexibility this trait offers for almost any build that can take it. It's not quite bonus feat territory, but it's close when you start factoring the options it frees you up to pursue. In short, it's not the fact that you get two class skills; its the fact that you can get any two class skills -- a feature otherwise reserved for both your starting traits.

3/5 **** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro

Pragmatic activator is also social trait. Lineage is infamously also regional. I want to say that Magical Knack is the same but I might be misremembering.


MadScientistWorking wrote:
I want to say that Magical Knack is the same but I might be misremembering.

It's "magic".

Scarab Sages 4/5

Pragmatic Activator, Magical Lineage, and Magical Knack are all Magic traits. Wayang Spellhunter, which functions similarly to Magical Lineage is a Regional trait. Dangerously Curious (which grants UMD as a class skill) is a Magic trait.

3/5 **** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro

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Ferious Thune wrote:
Pragmatic Activator, Magical Lineage, and Magical Knack are all Magic traits. Wayang Spellhunter, which functions similarly to Magical Lineage is a Regional trait. Dangerously Curious (which grants UMD as a class skill) is a Magic trait.

Clever Wordplay is essentially a better pragmatic activator. The amount of overlap with traits is kind of ridiculous unless its a few particular exceptions that aren't on that list.

EDIT:
In fact one of my favorite combinations is Pragmatic Activator/Clever Wordplay or Ease of Faith/Clever Wordplay.

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