I have an idea for a character that I may be interested in making for a new game - it's a kobold sorcerer. For flavour, I'd like to take the wings and scales racial traits - I want to be quite dragon-flavoured.
I am assuming that the -4 str and -2 Con will hurt a lot though. Is it going to be possible to build something half decent with say a 20 point buy?
I don't need to be a superstar but I'd like to be a functional and contributing party member. I'm open to other class ideas and multi-classing but I'd like to be a caster for sure (and with those stats, who wouldn't be?)
Oh Dragon Affinity? Oh man, I guess I need to pick up the new race book, that one isn't in the original one. That one is very nice, thanks for the tip.
What makes an urban bloodrager good? No spells till 4th kind of makes me cry. The controlled rage does look pretty helpful though.
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I have an idea for a character that I may be interested in making for a new game - it's a kobold sorcerer. For flavour, I'd like to take the wings and scales racial traits - I want to be quite dragon-flavoured.
I am assuming that the -4 str and -2 Con will hurt a lot though. Is it going to be possible to build something half decent with say a 20 point buy?
I don't need to be a superstar but I'd like to be a functional and contributing party member. I'm open to other class ideas and multi-classing but I'd like to be a caster for sure (and with those stats, who wouldn't be?)
Stay fully with draconic sorcerer instead of going disciple and concentrate on being awesome with spells and your dragon form.
You know, you might just need to play to the race's flavorful strengths. Trickery and stealth. Spells like Emergency force Sphere give you amazing protection, while Dimension Door lets you get out of it and away. Going into Dragon Disciple slows your spellcasting progression a little, but it also boost Strength and Constitution.
Stay fully with draconic sorcerer instead of going disciple and concentrate on being awesome with spells and your dragon form.
This is what I'd like to do if it's viable. The ability boosts on dragon disciple look very nice, but losing spell progression... ouch.
On the bright side I should be able to decide later if dragon disciple is something I am going to want as the requirements don't look onerous.
Really, I'd go with the shadow bloodline and maybe the seeker archetype, and be a truly sneaky sorcerer. Embrace your inner coward.
Stay fully with draconic sorcerer instead of going disciple and concentrate on being awesome with spells and your dragon form.This is what I'd like to do if it's viable. The ability boosts on dragon disciple look very nice, but losing spell progression... ouch.
On the bright side I should be able to decide later if dragon disciple is something I am going to want as the requirements don't look onerous.
At the very least it's as viable as a vanilla sorcerer... because you got.... spells. You'll also get Form of the Dragon spells whose breath weapon is the same no matter what size race you start as.
Dragon Disciple is the path of the melee sorcerer. But you don't have to be melee to be a good sorcerer... because again... you got spells.
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small size and a bonus to dex means leverage that stealth. Leave the melee to the tall races, you have arcane power oozing out of your fingertips.
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Really, I'd go with the shadow bloodline and maybe the seeker archetype, and be a truly sneaky sorcerer. Embrace your inner coward.
You mean Shadow Dragon, don't you! The brave kobold isn't scared at all! He just prefers to show off his mighty magic from a reasonable distance, that's all. Nothing cowardly about that.
Really, I'd go with the shadow bloodline and maybe the seeker archetype, and be a truly sneaky sorcerer. Embrace your inner coward.You mean Shadow Dragon, don't you! The brave kobold isn't scared at all! He just prefers to show off his mighty magic from a reasonable distance, that's all. Nothing cowardly about that.
Definitely do NOT crossblood dragon and shadow bloodlines. Delayed spell progress from DD is one thing, not actually knowing any spells of your new level even with slots is just pathetic.
I wasn't suggesting crossblooded, no, and I don't think Ventnor was either. I was suggesting aiming for something that kobolds might actually be good at - stealth - and I think Ventnor was trying to put a spin on that which preserves kobold pride.
Solid paranoia can make a huge difference for fragile characters.
I wouldn't recommend Rich Parents unless the campaign only goes up through low levels or is insanely difficult to survive at low levels in a way that extra equipment could actually do something about. Once you have spent the gold from Rich Parents, you never get any more benefit from that trait (or any of the other traits that give you a one-time shot of material goods, although at least with Heirloom Weapon if you get really lucky and it is never lost, stolen, confiscated, or made obsolete, that benefit could last through the campaign). Unfortunately the Retraining rules make no mention of retraining Traits other than Racial Traits.
Note that Dragon Affinity also works with the Kobold Sorcerer Bloodline. The Sorcerer Favored Class Option just gives you a piddly damage increase on damaging spells with 1 chosen energy descriptor, so don't go with this.
If you want to go Sorcerer and you also want to go stealth (for which the Kobold Bloodline is not too shabby), you could go Arcane Trickster. If you want to do this with no loss of spellcasting progression, you can go VMC Rogue, which starts giving you Sneak Attack dice at 7th level + 1 every 4 levels thereafter, and get the feat Accomplished Sneak Attacker at 9th level to get you another +1d6 Sneak Attack earlier so that you qualify for Arcane Trickster at 10th level. Note that if you can Sneak Attack (target denied bonus to AC), your Kobold Bloodline Arcana also gives you +2 on the DC of any spell you cast, useful if you are Sneak Attacking with a spell that has a saving throw (including a Metamagic-induced rider effect that has a saving throw). If you want earlier entry into Arcane Tricskter, you could do a more traditional Sneak Attack class dip at 1st level followed by Accomplished Sneak Attacker at 3rd level (no VMC) or 5th level (with VMC Rogue):
Ninja (Poison Use, and if you go 2 levels you get a small Ki pool and can pick up Ninja Vanishing Trick)
Rogue (Trapfinding or thuggery, although the latter option requires 2 levels and isn't very good because you are Small; can't go VMC Rogue; don't use the Kobold Snare Setter archetype because it replaces the 1st 2 Sneak Attack dice)
Snakebite Striker Brawler (Brawler's Cunning, Improved Unarmed Strike, more starting hit points/BAB, and partial martial weapon proficiency; unfortunately gets Sneak Attack by trading out Martial Flexibility, and Improved Unarmed Strike isn't very useful with yKobold Strength and size)
Vivisectionist Alchemist (use Mutagen to crank your Dexterity, and you get a bit of emergency healing capability and the ability to Brew Potions and create alchemical items; 2 levels gets you an Alchemist Discovery, but most of these won't be very good for you, so best to stick with just 1 level)
You could even retrain out your dip class level or the Accomplished Sneak Attacker feat (eventually both) once you get enough Sneak Attack dice from VMC Rogue. Of the above options, Snakebite Striker Brawler and Vivisectionist Alchemist are probably the best ones for temporary use (retrain out later), and Ninja (2 levels, with Ninja Vanishing Trick and the Magical Knack trait) and Vivisectionist Alchemist are the best ones to keep.
MMM... I don't think we're using variant multi-classing rules. My background won't work for rich parents regardless, so I am not going to choose that trait.
Any traits folks would suggest? Also for draconic bloodline, which colour/element would folks choose? Haven't decided if I am going to go metallic or chromatic yet... open to arguments on those.
For that matter, is it possible to build a Kobold *anything* that isn't awful? They've got to be the worst race in the book, mechanically-speaking.
Stay pure Sorcerer.
Let your Fullcaster-Spells speak for you.
Then the -4 STR is merely a little nuisance until you can get some item to help you carry stuff (Bag of Holding, Portable Hole, Muleback Cords, etc...). And the -2 CON is not great, but doesnt make or break a character that isnt a frontliner anyway.
The Kobold Sorcerer will NOT be "awful" just because another race would have been more powerful in the same role. You are awful if you cant pull your weight. And unless a Fullcaster deliberately chooses a trash spell selection he will be very useful.
Another way to go, and I haven't done any of the math so I don't know how "viable" it is, but what about multiclassing: sorcerer/ranger?
Take the ranger archetype Trapper for example. You start down the path of Sorcerer, blending that with your natural kobold talents for making traps. Trapper gives you Trapfinding for free at level 1; now you're an extreme trap disabler, greatly stealthy, and still picking up the nifty Favored Enemy and other level 1 stuff.
Down the road you get other ranger goodies; an Animal Companion (with the right feats you could have both an Animal Companion AND a Familiar!), tracking, favored terrain and at 5th level Trapper: you can MAKE a couple ranger traps as a Full Round action.
You'd make your parents proud. Sneak into the dungeon, scout the area using your magic/familiar/animal companion/EXTREME stealthiness. Then after figuring out where your first enemy is going to come from, quickly rig a hidden Tar Trap, dupe your foe at running out, and WHAM! If they fail a Ref save they're Entangled (a nice buff) and that level 4 Burning Hands spell you've had from way back that you've re-fluffed as Dragon's Breath suddenly ignites the guy for 4d4 +2d6 damage. Not too shabby for a kobold.
In my opinion kobolds do very well in a group. Picking spells/abilities that compliment others as well as yourself is a good way to go. For example taking a Valet familiar and then loading up on Teamwork feats for Escape Route to get out of melee w/out AoOs, Shake it Off to boost your saves, Shielded Caster to always make Concentration checks, Improved Spell Sharing so you're BOTH dragons, etc.
Plus there's lots of spells a sorcerer can take to keep them useful in melee. Again, taking a Valet familiar can help. You hand off a charge of Enlarge Person to your familiar, it speeds out and, if you're 3rd level it moves before and after the spell is delivered to an ally. This way you make sure your buffs NEVER miss your party.
Aside from a big bonus to stealth you've got Crafty, you get a +2 to Dex and Natural Armor +1 unless you trade any of this away. This is a spellcaster begging to stay at range, attack with either Ranged Touch or AoE spells and have a LOT of "distractions" i.e., party members and helpers around to keep attention off them.
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I've GMed a campaign with a player character Kobold Cleric and they are not awful at all, just not great in melee. I've also played a Sorcerer and used Strength as my dump stat and so think that a Kobold Sorcerer would be a great character played well.
Small size, normal base speed, darkvision and stealth makes them great for going unnoticed and the natural armour, dex, and small size help to make sure they don't get hit if they are spotted.
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Kobolds are my favourite race. (a hard commitment). Really, just acknowledge that melee isn't your push. It's a little painful because you need high charisma(because sorcerer) and constitution(because weak). Definitely get mage armor and other protective spells. If multiclassing with ranger maybe even arcane armor mastery.(if sorcerer getting armor proficiency isn't worth the feat) I would focus on buffing allies and staying out of the way. If a striker still stay out of the way. It also fits the personality for roleplay (I'll shine from a distance thank you.). Good luck. Prove the kobold haters wrong and dominate the field.
Kobold sorcerers can be boss! Pick up Kobold confidence at some point, check out your alternate favored class bonus for fun blasty times ( Even though it's been faqed into the ground it's still fun) and mess around with the glut of alternate traits that are fun and flavorful.
Another way to go, and I haven't done any of the math so I don't know how "viable" it is, but what about multiclassing: sorcerer/ranger?
I don't think this is in any way a good idea, sadly. Given that this would require a great deal of stat investment (WIS/CHA/DEX) on a class that has terrible starting stats, the class features do not progress together so e.g. animal companion will be very weak and your spells will suck, and you are giving up arcane ability for improved martial ability which you are abysmal at, I think it probably goes into the 'non-viable' box.
Kobold Sorcerers should usually just go Sorc 20 and not mess around with delaying their spell progression. They gain nothing from dipping.
Another way to go, and I haven't done any of the math so I don't know how "viable" it is, but what about multiclassing: sorcerer/ranger?
I don't think this is in any way a good idea, sadly. Given that this would require a great deal of stat investment (WIS/CHA/DEX) on a class that has terrible starting stats, the class features do not progress together so e.g. animal companion will be very weak and your spells will suck, and you are giving up arcane ability for improved martial ability which you are abysmal at, I think it probably goes into the 'non-viable' box.
Kobold Sorcerers should usually just go Sorc 20 and not mess around with delaying their spell progression. They gain nothing from dipping.
You could go sylvan bloodline for the AC and I believe there is a feat that lets you take a ranger trap and i'm pretty sure there are Kobold Feats in the Kobold book for taking ranger traps. Or ditch the AC and go empyreal bloodline with Ranger traps both running off wisdom.
You could go sylvan bloodline for the AC and I believe there is a feat that lets you take a ranger trap and i'm pretty sure there are Kobold Feats in the Kobold book for taking ranger traps. Or ditch the AC and go empyreal bloodline with Ranger traps both running off wisdom.Another way to go, and I haven't done any of the math so I don't know how "viable" it is, but what about multiclassing: sorcerer/ranger?
I don't think this is in any way a good idea, sadly. Given that this would require a great deal of stat investment (WIS/CHA/DEX) on a class that has terrible starting stats, the class features do not progress together so e.g. animal companion will be very weak and your spells will suck, and you are giving up arcane ability for improved martial ability which you are abysmal at, I think it probably goes into the 'non-viable' box.
Kobold Sorcerers should usually just go Sorc 20 and not mess around with delaying their spell progression. They gain nothing from dipping.
Yes you could certainly do something like this if you really wanted an AC and ranger traps for some reason. You just need to be very careful with kobolds not to over-extend your character concept and end up terrible at everything.
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I think straight sorcerer is the best way to go, here. However, I will suggest the Kobald bloodline over the draconic bloodline. While the draconic bloodline is very themeatic, it's features are skiewed very much towards a melee build...or at least it's first level power is. Thus, I'd actually suggest the Kobald Bloodline over the draconic bloodline; it's themeatic as you can get for a kobald AND has some very nice interactions with the race's natural stealthieness and perchant for traps and trickery. However, if your dead-set on Draconic Bloodline, there is hope. The only thing about the draconic bloodline that screams "melee" other than the form of the dragon spells is the claws bloodline power. Now, while form of the dragon is best for melee characters, it still has it's uses on a caster; it does provide some solid non-STR stat boosts, a breath weapon and flight, after all. The claws, however, are totally, 100% useless to a kobald sorc. You will just never have the strength to make them worth it.
The hope I mentioned? There is a fix for the claws issue: trade out those claws with an archtype! There are only 2 archetypes that let you trade out the claws, and both are good for different reasons. The -mechanically- superior option is the tattooed sorcerer, which trades out the claws for a nifty tattoo familiar, so it's a solid trade, but a bit dull mechanically. On the other hand, the other archtype, the Dragon Drinker, while not as strong mechanically as tattooed sorcerer, is so flavor-fitting it's awesome. The archtype is all about drinking the blood of dragons to gain EVEN MOAR dragon-ness on top of what the dragon bloodline gives you, as well as irking greater bonuses from consumed dragon blood. Basicly, you are a kobald so devoted to trying to be like a dragon that you consume their blood, hoping to gain draconic power from it. It's a very dark, sinister-feeling Kobald character, but boy oh boy the fluff is fitting and awesome! So, while tattooed sorcerer would be better mechanically, Dragon Drinker gets my vote, here, for the best way to "fix" the draconic bloodline for a kobald, as it is the most fluff-fitting. Word of warning, though, Dragon Drinker replaces the very good Draconic bloodline arcana with a VERY poor arcana of it's own, so if you go that route it's best to forget blasting(as you won't have the arcana to make it worthwhile) and instead build towards being a battlefield controller/"God Sorcerer." Without the draconic bloodline arcana, battlefield control becomes a FAR stronger option to build towards than blasting, which is no big loss as battlefield control is generally a better option than blasting anyway.
So...my votes?
Best choice: Straight Kobald Sorcerer, with Kobald Bloodline
2nd best Choice: Dragon Drinker Kobald Sorcerer, with the Draconic Bloodline
3rd best choice: Tattooed Kobald Sorcerer, with the draconic bloodline
worst possible choice: multiclass anything with sorc...seriously, unless your trying to make a melee build with dragon disciple or eldritch knight, this is not worth it...the spell loss is too great.
I can also give you 20 point-buy builds for any of these options, if you wish!
Kobold sorcerers can be boss! Pick up Kobold confidence at some point, check out your alternate favored class bonus for fun blasty times ( Even though it's been faqed into the ground it's still fun) and mess around with the glut of alternate traits that are fun and flavorful.
Link?
^You want the www.d20pfsrd.com Kobold page.
That shows what it currently is, not what it was before the nerf.
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When, how, and why did Kobolds get nerfed? (As opposed to being specified nerfed from the start, which is what I always thought they were.)
I think straight sorcerer is the best way to go, here. However, I will suggest the Kobald bloodline over the draconic bloodline. While the draconic bloodline is very themeatic, it's features are skiewed very much towards a melee build...or at least it's first level power is.
I plan to go wildblooded to get the mini breath weapon as a first level power instead of the claws which are completely pointless.
If DM rules that it won't work with the trait that gives +2 CHA on draconic bloodline sorc spells, I will probably take a bloodline familiar ... it delays the freebie spells by one level but seems worth it to swap out the dumb claws ...
tattooed seemed weird to me for some reason, will take another look, something about it made me say "naw"
If you're delaying spells that way, and maybe through crossblooded, might I suggest Words of Power? Ancient and arcane words of Draconic might reborn through your lineage could be sweet.
^Here's the Scaled Disciple feat for that. (And I just realized that Human or Half-Human with Racial Heritage (Kobold) could also use this, but that's an awfully high feat tax.)
I totally forgot about the bloodline familiars, that is actually a GREAT way to take care of the claws issue. I'd actually take that over wildblooded as the wildblooded fluff is that your bloodline comes from linnormes rather than dragons, which would clash with the kobald fluff.
I've written the clash into my backstory... but if DM doesn't like it I will write a new backstory featuring my familiar.
Honestly I would have taken the familiar hands down but the penalty of the delayed bonus spells seemed hefty especially since I wanted a raven familiar but it doesn't benefit *at all* from the "bonus" ability from the draconic bloodline (ability to fly for a few rounds a day). If draconic came with a different ability, even one that sucked I'd probably take it, but I dislike it being completely useless.
I did consider taking something silly for a familiar (a hedgehog or a pig for example) and making my character more comedic but it didn't jive with the vibe I wanted to play