Hell's Vengeance Player's Guide


Hell's Vengeance

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Sovereign Court

Is there no Player's Guide for this yet?


Nope. Its not coming out until next month, and they don't usually put the players guide out until the month of release. I'd expect 5 or 6 weeks yet.


Nope, not yet, my guess is two weeks before the first book is set to be released.

Sovereign Court

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I really like the NE Ymeri, elemental lord of fire, and Szuriel, one of the 4 Horseman. Both fire aspect. I was thinking of a NE Aasimar (Peri Blooded) Cleric. Different twist so to speak but I'm not sure what evil deities would be acceptable.

Liberty's Edge

Kaylessa wrote:
I really like the NE Ymeri, elemental lord of fire, and Szuriel, one of the 4 Horseman. Both fire aspect. I was thinking of a NE Aasimar (Peri Blooded) Cleric. Different twist so to speak but I'm not sure what evil deities would be acceptable.

Asmodeus is a sure bet

Shadow Lodge

The Raven Black wrote:
Kaylessa wrote:
I really like the NE Ymeri, elemental lord of fire, and Szuriel, one of the 4 Horseman. Both fire aspect. I was thinking of a NE Aasimar (Peri Blooded) Cleric. Different twist so to speak but I'm not sure what evil deities would be acceptable.
Asmodeus is a sure bet

Any of the archdevils, Zon-Kuthon, probably Abadar, possibly Gorum . . .

Given what happened with the last player's guide, I would not be at all surprised if these suggestions ended up in Hell's Vengenace's.


zimmerwald1915 wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Kaylessa wrote:
I really like the NE Ymeri, elemental lord of fire, and Szuriel, one of the 4 Horseman. Both fire aspect. I was thinking of a NE Aasimar (Peri Blooded) Cleric. Different twist so to speak but I'm not sure what evil deities would be acceptable.
Asmodeus is a sure bet

Any of the archdevils, Zon-Kuthon, probably Abadar, possibly Gorum . . .

Given what happened with the last player's guide, I would not be at all surprised if these suggestions ended up in Hell's Vengenace's.

I actually ask this question to James before Christmas. Ymeri isn't really worshipped that much in Cheliax unfortunately.

There are the whore queens though.

Liberty's Edge

zimmerwald1915 wrote:
The Raven Black wrote:
Kaylessa wrote:
I really like the NE Ymeri, elemental lord of fire, and Szuriel, one of the 4 Horseman. Both fire aspect. I was thinking of a NE Aasimar (Peri Blooded) Cleric. Different twist so to speak but I'm not sure what evil deities would be acceptable.
Asmodeus is a sure bet

Any of the archdevils, Zon-Kuthon, probably Abadar, possibly Gorum . . .

Given what happened with the last player's guide, I would not be at all surprised if these suggestions ended up in Hell's Vengenace's.

Asmodeus gives Fire ;-)


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

We've already been told that since another Evil AP is not going to crop up for a good, long time (if ever), most options for being a Very Bad Person will be open.


Since I will GM Rebels and Vengeance in parallel, I need the Player's guide asap, so the player can create their characters.


It'll get here when it gets here!

And not a moment sooner. :-)

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

somewhere I think James Jacobs mentioned that Asmodeus was really the only appropriate deity, although exceptions might be made for Zon Kuthon and maybe one other one whose name escapes me.

Paizo Employee Developer

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In the past I've always aimed to have the Player's Guides be available around the time that subscribers begin getting the first volume of the Adventure Path.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Yakman wrote:
somewhere I think James Jacobs mentioned that Asmodeus was really the only appropriate deity, although exceptions might be made for Zon Kuthon and maybe one other one whose name escapes me.

In fact, somewhere James Jacobs said the exact opposite. I've been pushing Rob and the others pretty hard to ensure that ANY evil deity would work as a PC faith in Hell's Vengenace, because this is the first real opportunity we've given for players to try out demon lords or Rovagug or Horsemen of the Apocalypse or Norgorber or whatever as things to worship. It's not a "LAWFUL evil" adventure path. It's just evil.

One of the ways we handle this is that the AP isn't about the PCs working for the church of Asmodeus, but for House Thrune, which is much more open to working with all sorts of folks than the church is.


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That's what Tammy loves to hear.

Sovereign Court

James Jacobs,

Are you the Creative Director for this AP?


Rob McCreary is I believe.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Kaylessa wrote:

James Jacobs,

Are you the Creative Director for this AP?

I'm the creative director for all the things Paizo does (and it's in that capacity that I advise folks on things like "Make sure this evil AP works for neutral evil and chaotic evil PCs too!).

That's a different job than lead developer though. Rob is indeed the lead developer for Hell's Vengeance. I was lead developer for Hell's Rebels.


Rob's been doing a great job by the way, love what he did with Mummy's Mask. :-)

And the other guy, what's his face... Adam something... ;)

Sovereign Court

Well that is awesome very rarely do I get to chat / message with the big wigs! Thank you for your responses.


What should we look forward as being "Early February"? 3rd? 10th?


Resurrecting this post, but do we know when the players guide is expected to come out?


The first book has a street date of February 24th, they begin shipping to subscribers next week I believe.

If I had to guess, I would say next week.


DM_Kumo Gekkou wrote:
Resurrecting this post, but do we know when the players guide is expected to come out?

On the 3rd or the 10th.

Sovereign Court Senior Developer

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DM_Kumo Gekkou wrote:
Resurrecting this post, but do we know when the players guide is expected to come out?

The plan is to have the Player's Guide available by the street date for the first volume of Hell's Vengeance, which is February 24.


Rob McCreary wrote:
DM_Kumo Gekkou wrote:
Resurrecting this post, but do we know when the players guide is expected to come out?
The plan is to have the Player's Guide available by the street date for the first volume of Hell's Vengeance, which is February 24.

Thank you.

Dark Archive

Rob McCreary wrote:
DM_Kumo Gekkou wrote:
Resurrecting this post, but do we know when the players guide is expected to come out?
The plan is to have the Player's Guide available by the street date for the first volume of Hell's Vengeance, which is February 24.

Not normally out for the first subscriptions shipping or am I misremembering?

Paizo Employee Developer

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Kevin Mack wrote:
Rob McCreary wrote:
DM_Kumo Gekkou wrote:
Resurrecting this post, but do we know when the players guide is expected to come out?
The plan is to have the Player's Guide available by the street date for the first volume of Hell's Vengeance, which is February 24.
Not normally out for the first subscriptions shipping or am I misremembering?

That's something that I've aimed to achieve for previous Player's Guides, but it just wasn't in the cards this time around. Turns out developing the adventures for Strange Aeons cut into my Player's Guide creation. We have a solution, but it's not going to be out until the street date this time. I apologize if this disappoints anyone.


Tammy can accept that. :-)


Thanks for the heads up, saves us a lot of page checks and you a lot of server load...


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Adam Daigle wrote:
Kevin Mack wrote:
Rob McCreary wrote:
DM_Kumo Gekkou wrote:
Resurrecting this post, but do we know when the players guide is expected to come out?
The plan is to have the Player's Guide available by the street date for the first volume of Hell's Vengeance, which is February 24.
Not normally out for the first subscriptions shipping or am I misremembering?
That's something that I've aimed to achieve for previous Player's Guides, but it just wasn't in the cards this time around. Turns out developing the adventures for Strange Aeons cut into my Player's Guide creation. We have a solution, but it's not going to be out until the street date this time. I apologize if this disappoints anyone.

Apology accepted, wicked flumph developer.

Do not fail us again!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Adam Daigle wrote:
Turns out developing the adventures for Strange Aeons cut into my Player's Guide creation.

MUHAHA! The madness is deepening!


not good get someone to put a temp on the traits out for all to see till the player's guide redy

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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john mclaughlin 11 wrote:
not good get someone to put a temp on the traits out for all to see till the player's guide redy

That'd be worse than "not good." None of us here at Paizo are interested in slapping together some traits and putting out a shabby Player's Guide that doesn't work as an introduction to an Adventure Path. There's really no better way to kill excitement for an upcoming Adventure Path than giving eager players a first taste and making sure that taste is bitter, rancid, and unappealing.

I get it that folks are eager, but we're talking about a difference of a few weeks at most. Please stay patient, and try to be understanding that not everything will always be perfect.


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I subscribed for Hell's Rebels, for the first time ever, because the player's guide did such a great job selling the adventure path.


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Yeah, I'd much rather have the player's guide come out later and be better- it's a difference of two weeks, but the guide will be there for that AP for a lot longer than that. This one's particularly important, since it'll be addressing evil PCs, and probably explaining how all three alignments can work in it. I'd hate for that to be thrown together.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I'd like some more details on Strange Aeons..when is that forum being created?


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I'd rather wait and have the first player guide specifically dealing with and dare I say enabling players to (finally) play evil characters and evil campaigns be as complete and thorough as possible. If you are interested in the AP now a few more weeks is a small price to pay.


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I'm disappointed this isn't coming sooner. However I'd rather it be good than early.

I just have to try and find away to keep my player's attention for a few weeks since we're holding off on making characters till it comes out.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I'm all for taking time and getting a good Player's Guide. I especially enjoyed the one for Carrion Crown. Lots of good stuff in there and all of it on the money.

Paizo Employee Developer

So, since I'm finishing this and getting it into the production cycle soon... aside from advice on how to play an evil character and be cohesive as a group and the usual character creation advice and setting background that we normally include in Adventure Path Player's Guides, what else do y'all think this guide needs? What's one thing that you'd expect to see in this one?


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Adam Daigle wrote:
So, since I'm finishing this and getting it into the production cycle soon... aside from advice on how to play an evil character and be cohesive as a group and the normal character creation advice and setting background that we normally include in Adventure Path Player's Guides, what else do y'all think this guide needs? What's one thing that you'd expect to see in this one?

I guess anything that emphasises that Evil doesn't nescessarily mean impulsive or reckless, and that evil also doesn't nescessarily mean being the main villain (straight away). I know this falls under "how to play evil", but I feel they're some of the biggest stumbling blocks.

I guess the only other thing would be "influence", in terms of how to be an evil overlord going forward :P

I trust you guys though, you haven't failed me in an AP yet.


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A portrait of me.

Barzillai might've been super creeps, but he had a few good ideas.

Not sure what his deal with mint was, but whatevs, time to move on.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Perhaps what draws LE, NE, And CE PCs to work towards serving house Thrune as each alignment will approach this differently.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Adam Daigle wrote:
So, since I'm finishing this and getting it into the production cycle soon... aside from advice on how to play an evil character and be cohesive as a group and the usual character creation advice and setting background that we normally include in Adventure Path Player's Guides, what else do y'all think this guide needs? What's one thing that you'd expect to see in this one?

"Evil Does Not Mean Stupid" in bold font in the middle of an otherwise blank page?

Considering it's meant to allow ALL types of evil, not just lawful evil Thrunies, maybe an examination of how a party of evil gits can resolve ethical conflicts without resorting to poisoning,stabbing,or what have you? I mean, that's sort of under "be cohesive as a group," but getting a bunch of Lawful Evil guys to work togther is actually easy- getting two Chaotic Evil,one Lawful Evil and one Neutral Evil to all play well together can be more of a hangup.


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Adam Daigle wrote:
So, since I'm finishing this and getting it into the production cycle soon... aside from advice on how to play an evil character and be cohesive as a group and the usual character creation advice and setting background that we normally include in Adventure Path Player's Guides, what else do y'all think this guide needs? What's one thing that you'd expect to see in this one?

I guess a recipe for Dark Side Cookies™ might be a bit much...

... but I'll bet Liz has a great one. :P

More seriously, the Black Hat play style has been pretty lacking in PF, so I am very interested in your take on it. If anything, I guess maybe something on the shades of dark that evil campaigns can go and making sure that everyone playing knows how dark the other characters (and players) are going before you get started? As much as I advocate for Team Evil, it is one of those areas where a misstep on assessing a fellow player's preferences / tolerances can make ever gaming with them again more than a bit uncomfortable. In comparison White Hat play has very few equivalences to how sideways a game can go with play style misunderstandings.

Dark Archive

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One of my favorite things from the Hell's Rebels guide was the Milani section. Maybe something similar for one of the evil deities that didn't get as much in any of the other books. "Hey, you want your character to be a follower of one of the Horsemen? Maybe one of the Whore Queens or Elemental Lords? Here are some interesting facts and traits that are specific to them! Enjoy!"

Not anything as in-depth as the Milani entry (because I'm biased, but also because if you went that deep with a whole bunch of evil deities the guide would be a few hundred pages, available as a hardcover, called Inner Sea Gods 2: Revenge of the Fallen, and probably not free.) but a couple nice religion traits and maybe an obedience for a few of them.

Of course, maybe you have some of that stuff planned for the individual books.

Grand Lodge

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Honestly, a section on laying ground rules as a group of players and GM what kind of evil your willing to collectively or individually perpetrate as characters. Things that an evil character, who is unencumbered by morals, may do include: kick puppies, kill children, and commit sexual violence. Some of these topics will be more uncomfortable than others for the players/GM, and the players/GM should agree to what is acceptable/constrained to non-detailed*/taboo.

*Constrained to non-detailed: You may say "My character goes into kennel and does evil..." instead of dragging the GM and table through vivid puppy kicking roleplaying encounter.

This is AP presents a unique opportunity to explore some dark places, and everyone should walk in eyes open, I think encouraging people to do so is appropriate in the guide.


Adam Daigle wrote:
So, since I'm finishing this and getting it into the production cycle soon... aside from advice on how to play an evil character and be cohesive as a group and the usual character creation advice and setting background that we normally include in Adventure Path Player's Guides, what else do y'all think this guide needs? What's one thing that you'd expect to see in this one?

Gag Answer: Kicking Puppies for Dummies.

... wait: Evil PCs for Dummies.


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I think an emphasis that evil does not mean all evil types are into rape, torture, murder, lying etc. It has always bugged me that variations of good and neutral are given their just descriptions, flavor and lore/fluff support...but evil is just evil. Which is just, frankly, silly and demeaning to any alignment system.

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