Casting Undeath Ward as an Undead


Rules Questions


I ran into a situation last night where the party was going to fight a group of undead, so the cleric prepared undeath ward. The problem is, the cleric is a lich. How would this work? I threw out a quick houserule that seemed to satisfy the players and seemed appropriately challenging (I had him make a save against it otherwise the spell would fail), but I want to hear some other opinions on this. Thanks Paizo boards!


It makes sense to do it that way. This also seemed like a good GM call since the devs were not likely thinking of an undead casting this spell.


Quote:
Mindless undead and intelligent undead with fewer Hit Dice than your caster level

It's unlikely your lich has fewer hit dice than his caster level.

That said, the spell doesn't say anything about undead already in the area. It's reasonable to say that undead already in the radius are not affected until they try to leave the barrier.


Melkiador wrote:
Quote:
Mindless undead and intelligent undead with fewer Hit Dice than your caster level

It's unlikely your lich has fewer hit dice than his caster level.

That said, the spell doesn't say anything about undead already in the area. It's reasonable to say that undead already in the radius are not affected until they try to leave the barrier.

I missed that line.


Melkiador wrote:
Quote:
Mindless undead and intelligent undead with fewer Hit Dice than your caster level

It's unlikely your lich has fewer hit dice than his caster level.

That said, the spell doesn't say anything about undead already in the area. It's reasonable to say that undead already in the radius are not affected until they try to leave the barrier.

He probably does have fewer HD than CL. Orange Ioun Stone and Prayer Beads probably account for it.


He's in the barrier - I'd have him make the save or be hurt (since he is equal to his own level). Your way seems fair too.


He could choose to cast it with a lower CL, just in case.


Undead already near the caster arent pushed out. Only entering is now problematic. He is undead, but he is also inside the barrier.

He will have to save against his own spell's damage, just like as if you cast a fireball at your feet. But can cast the spell as normal.


Melkiador, you need to continue reading the spell. Undead with fewer hit die than the caster cannot enter. Undead with more hit die than that can enter if they make a will save.

The thing about the damage is that even if you make the save you still take damage. You are just allowed to enter the area now.


Fun fact: the lich should voluntarily fail his save. Then he takes no damage. He cannot go in/out freely, but that does not matter since the spell moves with him.

My problem is the text: Forcing an undeath ward against creatures that the spell keeps at bay collapses the barrier.

Casting it causes it to collapse since he is forced to be in the area of the spell.

Or you could say he is not in the ward, but does emanate it, and thus not collapse.

/cevah


Is this much different than a living wizard casting antilife shell?


Melkiador wrote:
Is this much different than a living wizard casting antilife shell?

Antilife Shell cannot be bypassed except by SR.

Undead Ward can be bypassed with SR or sufficient HD.

/cevah


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

This brings up a past tower we were sent to clear. There was a permanent undeath ward on the upper floor of the tower and we 'assumed' that area was secure. I'll have to alert the party to our error. Wonder whats up stairs?

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