Sleight of hand and underhanded.

Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

This is a little different than previous posts on this. Mostly I want to know where the rolls come into play and how they affect anything. It says under sleight of hand you can draw a concealed weapons as a move with a penalty. I always thought you rolled when concealing, not when drawing. How do I resolve this scenario:

Han has a dagger concealed in a spring loaded sheath. He decides to throw it at Greedo. He draws the weapon as an Immediate (Swift) action and attacks. This is the surprise round. He also has Underhanded rogue talent.

I guess Han rolls sleight of hand vs perception when drawing the dagger. If Greedo spots it, he can go on the initiative, but Han has already started his turn, so his initiative seems moot at this point. Does that prevent Underhanded from triggering though since Greedo spotted the dagger?

I think it only matters if they spot the weapon before combat begins. Underhanded is restricted to the surprise round anyway, if I recall.

Liberty's Edge

It is, but we had always treated concealing a weapon like a disguise check or a stealth check where you make the roll when you do it. The "draw a concealed weapon as a move action with a penalty to the check" line under Sleight of Hand makes it seem like you do the heck when pulling the weapon out. Which seems odd.

You are discussing two different checks for Sleight of Hand:
1) "Hide Object"
Hide a weapon so no one notices where it went.
2) "Draw Hidden Weapon"
Draw a weapon in a way no one realizes it is now in your hand.

Han had a Spring Loaded Wrist Sheath. It tkes a swift (not immediate) action to draw. You get a swift in the surprise round. Since the weapon is hidden (i.e. concealed) before the action, the Underhanded talent lets Han score max sneak attack on the throw.
Greedo has one chance to spot the dagger when he meets Han. Later, when the action starts, Greedo gets shanked. No chance to spot the suddenly appearing dagger in time to do anything about it. Greedo seeing the dagger as it comes at him does not let him negate the max damage. Since he did not see it at the start of the surprise round, he is toast.

Initiative does not get affected. It is determined after the surprise round.

EDIT: "Draw Hidden Weapon" is not a check.
"Entertain" is not a check. I would use a check on this use if you are trying to use it to earn cash with the day job rules.
"Hide Object" is a check with a DC listed.
"Take Something Unnoticed" is a check with a DC listed.


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