How do Ferocity and Non-Lethal damage interact?


Rules Questions


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Ferocity (Ex)

A creature with ferocity remains conscious and can continue fighting even if its hit point total is below 0. The creature is still staggered and loses 1 hit point each round. A creature with ferocity still dies when its hit point total reaches a negative amount equal to its Constitution score.

Non-Lethal Damage
Certain attacks deal nonlethal damage. Other effects, such as heat or being exhausted, also deal nonlethal damage. When you take nonlethal damage, keep a running total of how much you've accumulated. Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points. It is not "real" damage. Instead, when your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you're staggered (see below), and when it exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious.

So, any opinions on how they help? Feel free to FAQ, I searched and saw a lot of people asking in the past with no answers.

Thanks everyone!


I don't think they interact at all. Ferocity only works when you are below 0 hit points, and nonlethal damage doesn't change your current hit points at all.


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I think the point he is trying to make is that even a single point of nonlethal damage ruins ferocity, since it would mean they would fall unconscious at 0 hp left rather than being able to fight till -10.

I would make it so a creature with Ferocity doesnt fall unconscious until its nonlethal damage is equal to its HP+10, since it can normally fight on in situations it would normally be unconscious.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I'd think the nonlethal would knock them out. As it stands it still works out in most instances since it's a corner case most players don't think to use, if something is in ferocity mode it's really not got much left anyways, and it helps offer a way to take a character alive. Take boars for example, without allowing nonlethal to effect the thing there would be pretty much no way to capture one or taking orcs prisoner. Also you'll still have to take that -4 in most instances to pull it off so there's still a decent chance they'll mis in the attempt.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

If the creature with ferocity falls unconscious through non-lethal damage and is later brought below 0 HP, does it suddenly regain consciousness and pursues its fighting ?

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
The Raven Black wrote:
If the creature with ferocity falls unconscious through non-lethal damage and is later brought below 0 HP, does it suddenly regain consciousness and pursues its fighting ?

I'd say not until the nonlethal is removed. I'd be weird to have an orc judo chopped to unconsciousness and then suddenly recover from the violent head trauma induced blackout you caused because that kobold knicked him one hp too far.


Baval wrote:

I think the point he is trying to make is that even a single point of nonlethal damage ruins ferocity, since it would mean they would fall unconscious at 0 hp left rather than being able to fight till -10.

I would make it so a creature with Ferocity doesnt fall unconscious until its nonlethal damage is equal to its HP+10, since it can normally fight on in situations it would normally be unconscious.

Correct, I'm making a half orc kineticist, and taking the feat to get regular ferocity is tempting, but if any non lethal damage cancels out ferocity then there is no point. It just seems odd that it isn't called out in the rules.


Same problem with the deathless feat chain. No point using the orc fighter favored class option to have a higher threshold for deathless or ferocity when a single point of nonlethal knocks you out. Personally it is ridiculous that an orc can take a lethal injury from a sword and keep going, but punch him with the lightest touch and he goes down.


This really does need to be fixed, but I'm afraid it never will, since kineticist balance basically counts on this not working.


Melkiador wrote:
This really does need to be fixed, but I'm afraid it never will, since kineticist balance basically counts on this not working.

what was wrong with my solution?

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