Siwar's courtier role has "When another character at your location would banish or bury an ally, he may put it in your discard pile instead."
Does this include when that person would banish an ally for failing to acquire them? Or does only apply to ones banish or buried from that character's deck?
Ah so it should more specifically read like "When a character would banish or bury an ally for it's power"
Like the weapon recharging abilities do for fighters and the like.
Now thinking again though, I wonder if it was worded wrong or if it was also intended to apply to allies being buried or banished by other cards/powers.
Like for example if Amiri banished an ally for extra dice, would that ally be sent to Siwar's discard? The ability seems ambiguous and up for interpretation.
Siwar's courtier role has "When another character at your location would banish or bury an ally, he may put it in your discard pile instead."
Does this include when that person would banish an ally for failing to acquire them? Or does only apply to ones banish or buried from that character's deck?
It only applies to allies that are banished or buried from that character's hand, regardless of whether or not they were used for a power.
If you are instructed to play, reveal, discard, recharge, bury, banish, or otherwise manipulate a card, that card must come from your hand unless otherwise specified.
That power does not specify otherwise, so the banished or buried allies must come from the character's hand. It does not restrict you to allies banished or buried for their powers, however. Cards do what they say and don't do what they don't say, and nowhere does the power stipulate "for its power" when referring to the allies. If you had a card that required you to bury a card from your hand, and you buried an ally as a result of that, Courtier Siwar would let you put it in your discard pile instead.
EDIT: As-written, you'd actually be putting the card in Siwar's discard pile, not the character who did the banish/bury. I see no other thread discussing this, so I cannot speak as to whether or not that is the intent of the power. The way it's written, it seems like it's the intent as "put it in your discard pile instead" is a heck of a difference from "discard it instead", and the latter would be used if it was meant to stay with the original character.
EDIT 2: Actually, thinking about it more, the rule I quoted only applies to actions, not reactions ("when X happens, do Y"). So as-written it seems that it would indeed let Siwar auto-acquire allies that other characters at her location failed to acquire. This type of ability is not unheard of, as a character in Wrath of the Righteous has a similar one to let her auto-acquire allies that other people fail at. However, this power seems more powerful than that since it applies to both acquiring as well as banishing/burying allies via other means. Probably is in need of an FAQ, in the meantime if you think it's broken apply what I originally said and only let it work on cards from the character's hand.
Somewhere in the rules if i remember well it says that bury or banish (or discard, or...) is always from your hand unless clearly written otherwise.
So "When another character at your location would banish or bury an ally" is by definition from her hand.
When you fail to aquire an ally, it never goes to your hand, so Siwar's power doesn't trigger.
Well that's how I read it anyway.
To push it further :
If the character buries from her hand as a result of losing against a monster that has a special burying power, it would trigger, because it doesn't say "When another character at your location would banish or bury an ally FOR ITS POWER"
But if the monster cause to bury from the top of the deck for example, for me IMHO it wouldn't trigger...
But it does say in the rules that when you fail to acquire a boon it is banished. The rule specifying from your hand is only referring to powers on other cards that instruct you to banish/bury/discard as skizzerz pointed out.
Yes it is banished, but I would argue that it is not banished by a character since it never was aquired by that character.
Same when you close a location. Remaining cards are banished but not by a character.
It's the whole "you" argument again: sometimes the rules tells you (the player, not the character) to banish a card.
IMHO and unril proven guilty by Mike, Vic or worse, by Hawk.
Anyway, nice candidate for the weekly can of dragons contest.
Yes, I would agree that it is not the player banishing the ally that they failed to acquire. The player never had to ally, so they are not banishing. Therefore Siwar's Courtier power wouldn't apply.
Well.... comparing this with the Damiel issue, as written it applies to any banishment, whether it be the method of closing a location, or allies left in a location when it is closed.
Whether or not is should be that or just allies they played, I can't say. I will note that many people feel Siwar has too many drawbacks to be viable. Knowing that you could virtually guarantee allies that are in her location deck might not be the most overpowered thing.
But they FAQed Damiel's power to "When you play a card that has the Alchemical trait and would banish it..."
I suppose I've been assuming that a similar interpretation should be made for Siwar's power as well. We'll need Mike/Vic to tell us, I guess.
I do vote for the same kind of clarification/FAQ.
Seems weird thematically to get never encountered allies to somehow pop up in your discard.
Noted.
Siwar's courtier role has "When another character at your location would banish or bury an ally, he may put it in your discard pile instead."
Does this include when that person would banish an ally for failing to acquire them? Or does only apply to ones banish or buried from that character's deck?
Things like dream stone fragment also lead to banishing allies never had in a deck. Love my siwar making dreams real :). Courtier siwar 4eva.
