I have been reading and thinking about Mythic Adventures quite a bit lately. Full disclosure, I just finished GM'img a Mythic game.
Now based on this quote from James Jacobs I decided to do as asked and provide some feedback in a constructive way, along with hopefully evoking a response that is similar in style if not content from others.
The way I would love for responses to be formatted.
Mythic Power attack is slightly unclear, does it grant +4 damage and -1 attack bonus for characters that possess it and wield a weapon in two hands? Also how exactly is the damage doubled before a crit?
Considering Mythic Power attack has the following textMythic Power attack wrote:You can expend one use of mythic power when you activate Power Attack to ignore the penalties on melee attack rolls and combat maneuver checks for 1 minute.Does Mythic Furios Focus simply remove the penalty from AoO at the cost of a mythic feat?Mythic Furious Focus wrote:
Your attacks create a rhythmic barrage that doesn't sacrifice precision for force.Prerequisite: Furious Focus.
Benefit: When you are using Furious Focus, you don't take Power Attack's penalty on attack rolls that are made as attacks of opportunity. As a free action, you can expend one use of mythic power to negate Power Attack's penalty on all melee attacks you make for 1 round while using this feat.
Both of the above are positive in tone and have concrete questions with definable answers.
In short please feel free to propose answers but at least ask clear questions and provide some constructive feedback.
Please avoid things similar to the following:
Mythic is just broken!
Mythic is only for powergaming munchkins.
Now for my feedback. We did have some issues.
1.) Mythic causes characters to grow offensively quickly but defensively at almost the same rate if not the same as not mythic.
-------->a.) Players are assumed to gain spells to remove conditions at certain levels, like getting restoration at ~4th and heal at ~11th. Usually monsters do not inflict conditions regularly that are not removable or at least mitigatable by PC's when encountered.
Mythic can cause this to be untrue due to PC's being so powerful offensively that their APL is enhanced to the point of needing higher level monsters which carry abilities that the PC's do not have the spells/abilities to deal with yet.
Now this is a small problem at lower mythic tiers but from 3+ grows into a large one faster and faster.
-------->b.) The math of Mythic is based on the assumption that 2 mythic tiers = 1 level. The actual offensive game numbers (DC's, To Hit, and Damage) far out strip this progression at closer to a 1 mythic tiers = 1 level or 1 mythic tiers = 1.5 levels as you reach higher mythic tiers.
1a.) This is a difficult issue and honestly I have yet to come up with an answer.
1b.) This issue could be solved by offering a bonus to defenses based on mythic tier and path similar to the bonus hit points already provided.
1.) Foe-biting is so good that most melle will auto want it and allows for extraordinarily high amounts of damage.
2.) Undetectable is confusing and unclear. As written effectively you are completely undetectable, as in you can be stabbing someone in the face with a dagger and all they will know is that they are getting hurt not even your square or direction. No kind of special senses or even magic work.
3.) Mythic Vital Strike multiples bonus damage by the number of weapon damage dice you roll for that feat, which makes multiple dice weapons much better and results in extremely large amounts of damage.
4.) Can a Legendary Item with Intelligent and Rejuvenating use its actions to heal the bearer?
5.) Mythic surges as a swift action make the abilities based on re-rolling surges not as powerful due to how clogged swift action economy gets.
1.) Remove Foe-Biting's ability to double a critical's damage by changing the third sentence to "If the attack is a confirmed critical hit, this ability still costs one mythic power, and only allows for the doubling of damage sources that would not normally be multiplied on a critical, such as precision damage". Also make it work as only another multiplier with other effects such that you get say a X3 on your bonuses and dice with mythic vital strike not total damage x 2, which is effectively a x4.
2.) I think undetectable needs a rewrite. I do not have anything concrete but perhaps only protecting against magical detection, or like Divine source having multiple layers of undetectability unlocked as you take the ability more than once.
3.) Instead multiply bonus damage by the vital strike multiplier, I.E. X2 for Vital strike, X3 for Improved Vital Strike, X4 for Greater Vital Strike. This would still be extremely powerful, but would prevent an enlarged person wielding a greatsword from adding a X9 - X12 modifier using Greater Vital strike depending on how the text is parsed.
4.) I did allow this however it did result in my players asking "Why would every Mythic weapon user not have this?" due to its extraordinary strength. Some balancing may be due here.
5.) We by accident played with surges as Free actions that can be taken anytime. It worked very well, helped bolster mythic characters defenses, made the surge powers/feats more desirable and also served to siphon off mythic power. Overall a large positive I recommend it.
1.) Some Mythic abilities are amazingly potent while others are less so. The Paths generally seem to have rankings in that some are in toto better than others.
1.) Using the Mythic Hero's Handbook can help quite a bit, however it may be best to in future Mythic releases to create content to boost slightly lagging areas as was done for the Barbarian in the APG or for the Monk via may archetypes.
I would like to say that the reason I have made this thread is that I and my players seriously love Mythic and feel that with some small tweaks and some further support it could be one of the best if not the best thing Paizo has released.
I would also like to take the time to plug the Mythic books from Legendary games! These are amazing and highly recommended.
So, does anyone have anything either specific or general to say about mythic?
I'm interested in this topic because I'm considering starting a Wrath game with my home group, and I'm definitely going to be modding the rules, particularly the specific abilities you mentioned were on my list (other than reading MVS like deinol, though even then, I've seen MVS acting rather ridiculously), with very similar planned fixes (my fix for surges, for instance, is to make them a "surge" action that is once per round but separate from swift/immediate). I've used mythic a fair amount for adversaries and seen it in that one PFS scenario for PCs, but I don't have tons of non-theoretical experience with mythic PCs yet. Still, it's good to know that your group is having issues with some of the same abilities I had flagged in my read-through.
I'm also worried about abilities like recuperation and sustained by faith that refresh everything more times in a day.
Posted here just as a regular GM, interested in modding mythic for my game, not a designer or anything; this system was written way before I got here.
Our group also played a Mythic campaign lately (all the way from level 1 to level 20/tier 10).
Did not see any issues with melee characters... Vital Strike was fine, casters still did WAY more damage/flexibility of spells etc.
Best advice I can offer is to not sweat the power creep that the PCs get. They will roll over non-mythic stuff, it's okay.
Once in a while, custom make a monster to challenge them. Pulling stuff straight from the books only works if you have four single class characters built logically (instead of for power).
I ignored the monster specific mythic rules and just did my custom monsters with tiers same as PCs.
I personally didn't find the rules broken in any way at all. In fact, I pointed out to my players that they could make items capable of casting wish, and if enough characters took them, they could basically add +5 to all their stats after a while...
I agree that the "fix" I proposed is good for vital strike and will still result in heaps of damage. It may even be too much this way, but *shrug* mythic so np.
We did not limit surges to one per round, but quickly found that mythic power became very precious this way. Even at once per round it will go quickly. To be clear I like this as it gives an element of decision to the use of mythic power in mythic games pre 10th tier. It also vastly helps the marshal mythic path.
Recuperation is a complete game changer in the same way that teleport or raise dead is. It let my PC's cover vast distances very quickly and let them nova more often and harder due to spell refresh. I ended up liking it but it is one of the extremely large jumps in power in mythic.
Also, wow I missed sustained by faith as our only druid changed to hunter mid-game and went from being a hierophant to being a marshall. With that you could potentially get 3 spell load outs a day. That means even arcane casters if optimizing should go Dual Path Archmage/Hierophant and take sustained by faith. If your entire party is some form of caster or resource user heck everyone might take it that way and be Dual Path XXX/Hierophant.
I do have to agree with Alex on the point that all mythic games will require more work from the GM due to monster creation and a smaller "sweet spot" on encounter difficulty.
Humm, I think I am going to start combing through Mythic and making commentary.
Also, thank you everyone for keeping it positive and constructive.
P.S. I will post what I meant about defensive advancement later, gonna run some math.
P.P.S. Yeah Mythic! :-)