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Mother Bears is set in the Ironbound Archipelago, which I'm not too familiar with (as far as I know there are no modules or adventure paths that take you there) so I was glad, once again, to be somewhere new. There's only so much time that I'm able to play Pathfinder, and I continue to find the Tales a great way to experience the richness of the many regions that I haven’t yet explored in the game.
Jendara is very likable, and as a protagonist I believe she's only the second mother that we've covered in the PTBC, going back to its inception with The Crusader Road. With Kran being an impaired child, Jendara has an extra edge which I like, and it’s clear she raised him well since he didn’t back down from a goblin dog and its rider, even when he was armed with only a dagger. That goes to show that there's no reason why a character with disabilities can't be as much of a hero as anyone else, and it's much more impressive when they do, considering Kran saved Jendara in the caves instead of the other way around, as she intended.
The goblin plan to draw the warriors out to the other settlement was pretty smart...perhaps too smart for goblins, so if I were Jendara I would be wary of another antagonist. I would've liked to see the battle against the goblins though, but the story wasn't really about that despite it being a real danger to everyone, focusing more on Jendara and Kran going about their daily routine and showing how they deal with adversity. It was actually refreshing to read about lower level characters without supernatural abilities or powerful spells and magic items for a change, and I hope that continues as we move forward.
(I wonder if the bear cub becomes an animal companion...)
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Winter’s Wolves Was short and sweet - pretty much all action, which I will never have a problem with. I guess I have to redact my statement about Mother Bears regarding Jendara as being “lower level” because clearly she’s not, considering she basically took on a hill giant and a winter wolf by herself with only a few arrows from the Blackravens softening them up. [From my experiences playing the Giantslayer AP this year, I can tell you first-hand how hard it is to beat the CMD of a giant, even with a high strength, a full feat stack, and magic items to boost my CMB, I still had to roll really high to pull it off.] Even though they were outshined by Jendara, I did like the Blackravens. I did some research and was a bit disappointed that there wasn’t a prestige class or even an archetype for them in the Lands of the Linnorm Kings book, but there is a lot of interesting background information about them. Maybe we’ll learn more about them in Skinwalkers, if they continue on with Jendara.
I was hoping to see Kran again, and the bear that isn’t a cub anymore, since two years has gone by. (Kran was 8 in Mother Bears and is 10 now.) I half expected them to come charging in if Jendara got into trouble, perhaps after looking for them and realizing she had ran off chasing danger again. Having read a decent amount of the Web Fiction now, it’s not easy to determine which characters will continue onto the Tales novels, or survive them if they do. [Are they PCs or NPCs?] My guesses haven't been as accurate as I’d like them to be, but that’s part of the fun too, especially with transitions that cover time spans longer than a few days/weeks/months that usually takes place in the novels. Looking forward to Skinwalkers…
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Mother Bear feels like an establishing story for me. It's is our first intro to Jendara, Kran, and Vorrin, and already we have the core element to their relationship - Jendara's love for Kran.
I like that Wagner has chosen a main character that is both a mother and a retired pirate. It's an interesting tale, and very different than the usual band of young adventurers that are more typical for fantasy.
I also like that, though we don't see it much here, Kran isn't at all slowed down by his handicap. If anything, Jendara worries about it more than he does.
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Winter's Wolves is all action, but that isn't a bad thing. This is where we establish what a terror Jendara is in combat. While it is never flatly stated, it is clear she is a barbarian, and the combat scenes reflect that. Based on the fight with the winter wolf and the hill giant, Jendara must have been one scary pirate.
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Mother Bears feels like an establishing story for me. It's is our first intro to Jendara, Kran, and Vorrin, and already we have the core element to their relationship - Jendara's love for Kran. I like that Wagner has chosen a main character that is both a mother and a retired pirate. It's an interesting tale, and very different than the usual band of young adventurers that are more typical for fantasy.
Winter's Wolves is all action, but that isn't a bad thing. This is where we establish what a terror Jendara is in combat. While it is never flatly stated, it is clear she is a barbarian, and the combat scenes reflect that. Based on the fight with the winter wolf and the hill giant, Jendara must have been one scary pirate.
No doubt! I totally agree that Jendara is a barbarian, which makes it even more interesting that she's a retired single parent to boot. As we know, "mother bears" are especially ferocious when their young are threatened, and even though Kran seems to be able to handle himself, with Jendara already being a terror of the high seas that makes her even more formidable.
[In the Skull & Shackles adventure path I played a barbarian/rogue with the sea reaver/pirate archetypes, and I've reflected on that every time Jendara invoked Besmara and lost her temper.]
Good stuff.
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Chapters One through Eight of Skinwalkers may not have been as action-packed as Winter's Wolves, but we learned a lot more about Jendara, her backstory, and how much she has changed since her days as a pirate. Although pirates can surely be neutral, like raiders of merchant vessels who take as few innocent lives as possible, most tend to be evil, especially slavers. But despite what Jendara has done in her past (even that apparently grisly revenge killing for her husband that I hope we eventually get the full story about) she surely isn't the latter, as her instincts to help people in need are indicative of character with a good alignment. Sure, she makes some off comments about getting back on track with their business or wishing that she didn't care about whats going on, but those thoughts never seem to win out when people around her are getting hurt, or worse.
All of the conjecture about the creatures responsible for the massacre at the quarry being men or beasts is hopefully coming to an end soon, as the suspense is starting to kill me. Given the title of the novel, scenes like the one in Chapter Eight with the crew hearing growling and howling coming from the other ship in the fog are. I want to yell "They're freaking SKINWALKERS already, get on with it!" at every single one of them. First Yul had brought it up and Morul dismissed it, then Jendara reiterated it and that idiot boy Rak laughed it off, so I really hope they're a big bloody "I told you so" on it's way...
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A lot happened in the next eight chapters, more than I expected. Not only were the skinwalkers finally confirmed, but have been created and now being led by Jendara's long lost sister? That's crazy. Jendara must feel so torn right now, finding Kalira still alive and simultaneously realizing she may have to kill her.
I found the scene at Hagrim quite entertaining on a gaming level. I could see it coming, just like when a player thinks telling the authorities about the situation we're in will somehow help us, but no one believes, cares, or can do anything about what's going on. It may be a sort of metagaming in a way, but it should be obvious that it's the PCs responsibility to handle the situation - otherwise why are we playing the game? Sure, it's fine to go inform potential allies or people who you think should know what's going on to prepare themselves, but a player shouldn't get all bent out of shape when we get no assistance from them. Anyway, who knows, Hagrim might send assistance eventually, even though their reasons for not believing Jendara, or believing she may be trying to lure the Iron Shields away from an attack, are completely plausible.
Do we know what ethnicity Jendara is? I didn't pick up on anything specific, I'm assuming Ulfen since she wasn't necessarily treated as an outsider in Hagrim, but then again she doesn't seem to have any of the cultural attributes of the traditional Ulfen from the Lands of the Linnorm Kings. Also, Vorrin was described as appearing different than the other crewmen aboard the Milady, and the picture of him in Mother Bears resembles someone from Varisia. An ethnicity that I hope comes into play eventually are the Mordant Spire elves. There's very little known about them, but I find them fascinating, and they're not too far away. They should consider the skinwalkers a threat too, especially if they overrun Battlewall, so perhaps Jendara should go to them for help instead.
[That was a really nice series of Bluff checks by Hazan, especially after regaining Jendara's trust after she was captured. Well done! Bastard...]
So...it's definitely getting much colder, but still no snow in the immediate future. Should we go into Winter Witch next anyway, or hold off for another month? If the latter, any suggestions?
I think Winter Witch next...it might not be snowing but it has been getting really cold up in my neck of the woods...
Also...there are some interesting parallels between Winter Witch and Skinwalkers I think at least.
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Well the action sure picked up in the last third of the book, I'm satisfied. Too bad Jendara didn't go get Lugh and the Blackravens to help out with the Skinwalkers, they likely would've turned the tide at the wall. Irlu and Grotnir were a bit upstaged by Jendara in Winter's Wolves, so I was hoping they'd be back so we could see what they can really do, and in greater numbers. I was surprised none of the supporting characters were killed though, but Glayn came close. Not that I'm complaining at all, I guess I'm used to the many "NPC" tombstones from most of the other novels.
Speaking of dangerous situations, Fambra was totally right about Jendara going to the Isle of Ancestors. "To the norns? Are you crazy?" That just about sums it up. I was thrilled to see one up close though - a rare CR 18 fey creature in all it's strange glory. I've flipped past it a few times in Bestiary 3 and never thought I'd ever encounter one in the game or in novels. Despite Skinwalkers coming out first, it reminded me a little of the *mindscape* in Firesoul with Jiri and Shani The region and terrain may be stark contrasts between the two, but both scenes were very surreal, involving ancestral spirits in an otherworldly atmosphere, with the histories of their people coming into perspective in their moments of need. I like the spear Jendara got out of it in the end, I wonder what its magical properties are, statistically speaking. Maybe a bane weapon against the humanoid (shapechanger) subtype? Any other guesses?
I've always wanted to try playing a skinwalker, just never had the opportunity. I've played in groups with a werebat, werebear, and a wereboar-kin [separately] and it seemed like a lot of fun. Maybe if I get to play Reign of Winter I'll play the bastard son of a lycanthropic witchguard, a werewolf-kin viking out for blood on the trail of his father and the white witches he serves. Perhaps we'll see something like that in Winter Witch so maybe I'll wait until we get into that for more inspiration...
the visit to the norns was a cool part of the story - the world of the archipelago was made infinitely more interesting by the return to some very nordic roots (in terms of mythology and environment).
what did you guys think of the whole "skinwalkers created via ritual", as opposed to other ideas like "partially cure lycanthropy" or "child of a lycanthrope"? normally, that's what I assume skinwalkers are (the children of lycanthropes that failed to succumb to the curse - or perhaps children of those bitten, thus not "natural" lycanthropes). I was surprised, too, by the combination of the kalvamen and skinwalkers. there was a certain element of "scraelings" to them that was interesting... but at the same time it felt like the world of Golarion is really small. like "wow, a three day boat-ride to Kalva? has it really been a hundred years since you last saw them?"
but I do have to say that I totally expected the story to go elsewhere; while I completely expected Jendara's sister to be alive and living with the Kalva the moment the amulet was found, I thought that the skinwalker she shot with the arrow was left behind, looking for "his mother's" amulet - which Jendara would discover only after an extended length of time, perhaps a battle, etc. then she'd sail with her nephew to Kalva, and find her sister/her body, and then team up with her nephew against the kalvamen invasion or something. I don't know why I assumed that, I just felt that... I dunno. yeah. with all the family-related stuff, maybe? anyways, probably would have melted poor Jendara's mind!
DB, if you're thinking shifter ideas, you should totally consider a hunter - feral archetype as a shifter!! it's a REALLY COOL combo-build that lets you get a lot of bang out of turning into your animalistic form!
on another note, I felt there was definitely a difference between this and Firesoul. and between this and Mother Bears//Winter's Wolves, actually. Jendara worked really well as a pirate that I didn't know much about, but seeing her in long-form ... hmm, it felt like she was starting to get stretched a bit thin. it just got to the point where I stopped believing that she could have been the bloodthirsty pirate dedicated to Besmara that she kept telling people she was, just because there were so many times what she said she'd done in the past were so very at odds with what she said she was doing in the present.
take the battle scene with her sister, for example - her sister just launched a horrific attack on Jendara's home village, was clearly crazy and tortured a tone of people, and kidnapped her son; she is a terrible and crazy enemy. Jendara, however, stabs her and then... runs past her to her son, leaving her living, spellcasting enemy at her exposed back. I get that it was supposed to maybe inspire a sense of Jendara as a desperate mother trying to take care of her son, but I read it as her being very foolish. and the accumulation of those things had me less than invested in any of the battle scenes by the end of the book. the fights started being less "fights" and more "Jendara for some reason survives very poor decisions". the reason I mention her past is because, if these were the battles she'd faced previously... and she fought like she did in these examples, just running up and then swinging twice... the enemy just running away... she ignores another enemy to do some mindless task... the over-exposure to her way of fighting left me incredulous.
I will say that - in addition to the neat mythology piece - the homesteads, the little fish-towns, and the islands of the archipelago are far and away the strongest points. aside from a couple more... not anachronistic but just "out of place" pieces like the jarl having tea as an option, or the radically different feel of the capital compared to the islands less than a few days away, the world of the archipelago is really, REALLY interesting. I would enjoy an entire viking/nordic adventure path (or even just one module) that explores seafaring in a northern clime, with less emphasis on pirate ships and more emhpasis on that explorer journey.
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Stuff that really stood out on the second read through-
The Kalvamen's plan to stamped the livestock to break down the stockade gate was quite smart. If Kalira hadn't been so focused on it being a personal vendetta, they probably could have the town.
I really liked the whole Island of Ancestors section. I would guess it isn't easy to get the right mix of action and mystique for such ancient and alien creatures as the Norns and their island.
Which brings me to Jendara. I really liked that she was a mother and a warrior, but not at all a deep thinker. She didn't so much solve the mystery of the skinwalkers as keep slamming her head into it until a solution became apparent. Very much an Ulfen heroine.
All in all I still really like Skinwalkers. The tone and characterization is stronger than many of the other Tales books, and it remains a grounded story even though it is full of fantastic elements.
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what did you guys think of the whole "skinwalkers created via ritual", as opposed to other ideas like "partially cure lycanthropy" or "child of a lycanthrope"? normally, that's what I assume skinwalkers are (the children of lycanthropes that failed to succumb to the curse - or perhaps children of those bitten, thus not "natural" lycanthropes).
I thought it was really good, and a break from the usual method of contracting lycanthropy. There is a decent bit of mythology that the first werewolves were created by witches, which is actually touched on in Blood of the Moon under the aptly named Witchwolf breed:
“Werewolf-kin generally have prominent eyebrows that grow together, long index fingers, or wild hair that seems impossible to tame. Witchwolf packs are often led by witches trained in a tradition of curses and transformation tied closely to the original curse of lycanthropy; these witches are also usually the most powerful members of their packs, though exceptions exist where a witch leads with the aid of a favored ally of incredible strength.”I do have to say that I totally expected the story to go elsewhere; while I completely expected Jendara's sister to be alive and living with the Kalva the moment the amulet was found, I thought that the skinwalker she shot with the arrow was left behind, looking for "his mother's" amulet - which Jendara would discover only after an extended length of time, perhaps a battle, etc. then she'd sail with her nephew to Kalva, and find her sister/her body, and then team up with her nephew against the kalvamen invasion or something. I don't know why I assumed that, I just felt that... I dunno. yeah. with all the family-related stuff, maybe? anyways, probably would have melted poor Jendara's mind!
I thought the same thing. I expected a revenge story against the people who killed her family, I totally wasn’t expecting all that with Kalira. How horrible, to have to kill her own sister…
if you're thinking shifter ideas, you should totally consider a hunter - feral archetype as a shifter!! it's a REALLY COOL combo-build that lets you get a lot of bang out of turning into your animalistic form!
Hunter IS an amazing class, and the feral hunter archetype would be something I would consider if the GM wouldn’t allow me to play a skinwalker in Reign of Winter, but I'd prefer the skinwalker's change shape over the hunter's feral focus because the former lasts indefinitely instead only a few minutes, which allows for more opportunities for role-playing as much as in combat.
[Also, I already have a hunter PC ready to go that I would want to play first: She’s a half-elf Fighter (Calistrian Hunter)/Hunter (Verminous Hunter) with a giant wasp vermin companion, plus the exotic weapon proficiency (flying blade), combat patrol, and paired opportunists feats. She’s reserved for Second Darkness in case I ever get to play that too, and I already feel sorry for any GM who allows me to, haha.]Jendara worked really well as a pirate that I didn't know much about, but seeing her in long-form ... hmm, it felt like she was starting to get stretched a bit thin. it just got to the point where I stopped believing that she could have been the bloodthirsty pirate dedicated to Besmara that she kept telling people she was, just because there were so many times what she said she'd done in the past were so very at odds with what she said she was doing in the present.
take the battle scene with her sister, for example - her sister just launched a horrific attack on Jendara's home village, was clearly crazy and tortured a tone of people, and kidnapped her son; she is a terrible and crazy enemy. Jendara, however, stabs her and then... runs past her to her son, leaving her living, spellcasting enemy at her exposed back. I get that it was supposed to maybe inspire a sense of Jendara as a desperate mother trying to take care of her son, but I read it as her being very foolish.
What you said just brought me back to the conversation about Elyana from Plague of Shadows and Stalking the Beast, haha. But I hear you – I was like “nooo…” when she did that, because you know only bad things can happen [especially in the game] when you let an enemy like that get behind you.
Then again, I’m not a mother. Nor even a parent. We’ve all watched enough television and seen plenty of movies to see mothers do stupid things for their children over and over again, but apparently that’s what mothers do. I don’t agree with what she did, but I understand it. A seasoned warrior like Jendara should know that removing all threats from the battlefield would ultimately be the best way to save Kran, but every second she spent trying to do that would be another second spent away from him, any of which could have been his last, so she couldn’t care about that. Regardless, it was definitely foolish of her to do what she did, but the fact that even someone as experienced as her still succumbed to those emotions speaks volumes about her character.
I will say that - in addition to the neat mythology piece - the homesteads, the little fish-towns, and the islands of the archipelago are far and away the strongest points. aside from a couple more... not anachronistic but just "out of place" pieces like the jarl having tea as an option, or the radically different feel of the capital compared to the islands less than a few days away, the world of the archipelago is really, REALLY interesting. I would enjoy an entire viking/nordic adventure path (or even just one module) that explores seafaring in a northern clime, with less emphasis on pirate ships and more emphasis on that explorer journey.
I second that! Bring on Arcadia!
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"Stop trying to think. You're no good at it."
Sometimes Jendara really shows off her Barbarian problem solving 'skills'
Sometimes those are the best kind! There are times when a slash of a blade will work wonders compared to a turn of a phrase.
So do we think Jendara is multiclassed? She doesn’t seem all barbarian. I was thinking rogue with the pirate archetype, but perhaps that’s too literal. Maybe if we saw her fighting about the Milady long enough she could’ve showcases some rogue abilities, but I didn’t really get that feel from her overall. A bit of fighter or ranger? Or both?
The Kalvamen's plan to stamped the livestock to break down the stockade gate was quite smart. If Kalira hadn't been so focused on it being a personal vendetta, they probably could have the town.
I thought the same thing! I even looked if there were rules for causing a stampede that I could use in the game, but there weren’t any. There’s an ability that certain animals have that allow them to stampede, but nothing about intentionally causing one. Perhaps that would be a good feat for someone to create, based on Handle Animal and/or Intimidate, or maybe a skill unlock if using the Unchained rules…
I really liked the whole Island of Ancestors section. I would guess it isn't easy to get the right mix of action and mystique for such ancient and alien creatures as the Norns and their island.
That was my favorite part of the book, I think. I love stuff like that. There’s nothing wrong with an insular adventure that’s meant to be contained in a particular place and moment in time, but when a story branches out like that and gives you a glimpse of the traditions and culture of a character– especially mystical ones – it makes the whole story resonate more for me. It’s almost the same way in the game, like the difference between a GM who runs an adventure as if it was a board game versus a GM that does the research and brings the setting to life as you play, which makes you feel more like you’re in the story instead of just rolling dice and moving miniatures around. Again, this is another reason why Pathfinder Tales is valuable to this medium - they can breathe life into your games if you let them.
no no DB the feral hunter archetype gives the feral aspect an unlimited duration! so you can get the "pseudo-lycantthrope" feel from the aspect alone, but when you couple it with the also-cosmetic shift of the skinwalker you can almost get a full-on shifter feel.
I actually wondered if there there wasn't a bit of ex-cleric in Jendara, on account of the tattoos (holy symbols) and her continued mentioning of "feeling the power of Besmara". given her tracking ability, I wondered if she wasn't a ranger as well. there didn't seem to be any hint of barbarian (I totally agree), while she did often do a lot of tracking.
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no no DB the feral hunter archetype gives the feral aspect an unlimited duration! so you can get the "pseudo-lycantthrope" feel from the aspect alone, but when you couple it with the also-cosmetic shift of the skinwalker you can almost get a full-on shifter feel.
Check that out, you're totally right! That's pretty awesome.
I could even take it a step further and do both, gaining claw and bite attacks from werewolf-kin with the extra change feat plus the scent ability from feral focus (wolf) and the +2 Wis will give me a nice boost to spellcasting as well. Good call!