I didn't say anything about Undead no longer harming you ;)
Speaking of Disarm, we need more armed enemies in OSB. =(
Tell me your woes. I know Disarm is usually regarded toward humanoid opponents, so it kind of varies based on campaign. It does come with 2 sort of hidden benefits though. They have to spend an action retrieving it from the ground (gets worse for TWF), and they can't take AoO's since they don't threaten. Which means you and your friends can Maneuver them to your heart's content.
"There's a Feat chain that-" lets you do anything you should already be able to do without such Herculean effort.
I couldn't agree more. Feats are already a precious resource. They should not be considered up for things such as "fixes."
The giant could work his way with 5ft steps. or just move to the supporter. Often the supporter will have less AC and less HP than a front line. So getting to them is a good idea.
Ironically, the Fire Giant I chose for my example does indeed have Improved Overrun. So getting to someone that's a thorn in the Giant's side should definitely be a reasonable option, don't you think?
But why isn't it?
"There's a Feat chain that-" lets you do anything you should already be able to do without such Herculean effort.I couldn't agree more. Feats are already a precious resource. They should not be considered up for things such as "fixes."
The giant could work his way with 5ft steps. or just move to the supporter. Often the supporter will have less AC and less HP than a front line. So getting to them is a good idea.Ironically, the Fire Giant I chose for my example does indeed have Improved Overrun. So getting to someone that's a thorn in the Giant's side should definitely be a reasonable option, don't you think?
But why isn't it?
Well depending on how many rounds it would take him to kill the fighter over the supporter it is. Also you have to close into combat at least once. So the fire giant could have closed in onto the supporter instead of the fighter for it's first turn and then been full attacking the supporter.
I know I ran past a Large fighter provoking the AoO to get to the witch behind him. I had to move anyways, why not move to the better target?
I wouldn't use "choosing first targets" as a reasonable excuse as to why some combat options are a bad idea. The fact that opponents move around might be one reason someone would select Improved Overrun to begin with. Wouldn't you think?
It's bad enough it eats up attacks, but it's important to remember that its not even 100% guaranteed to be successful either. Should we just consider removing some Combat Maneuvers like this from the game, because they are never worth a Full Attack?
Shout out to anyone who has seen an entire campaign without a single similar Combat Maneuver utilized.
Combat maneuvers are fine when you can do them in the process of full attacking.
Natural attacks with grab or trip on them are especially awesome because they're generally on Large+, high-Strength creatures with a greater chance of landing them. Druids with Powerful Shape count as being a size larger, increasing the range of enemies they can do them on and the chances of success.
I didn't read through the whole thread but here's what I've found: a full attack is only worth it if you have ridiculously high attack bonuses.
I have a Halfling warpriest/hunter build which by the time he hits level 9 will have a +23 or higher ranged attack into melee. Consider: the average monster at level 9 is a 23. This means if I've played my cards right and get up to the front line my Full Attack will be:
+23/+18 (1d6 +11 plus 1d6 Fire); avg 18 damage
Versus the average monster at this level that's hitting on a 2 or higher on a D20 for the first attack and a 5 or higher on a D20 for the other one.
On the flipside my wolf animal companion will have a single bite +18 at the same level. Sounds high right? If I'm not there to Flank with him but he's got another flanker, that drops to +16; no flanker means +14. A +14 attack means he's hitting the average monster at this level with an 11 or higher on a D20 so once he gets multiple attacks the extra ones are kind of wasted unless we're REALLY lucky (or buffed to the freaking 9's).
So... my plan late in the game is to give the wolf Vital Strike. He'll maintain decent accuracy with his one attack every round and occasionally he'll do some extra damage. If he can Trip or I can get someone to attack me and trigger one of his AoOs he might do some extra damage, but that'll be a sometimes treat.
TL/DR: if high accuracy, then full attack to maximize damage. If low accuracy go Vital Strike.
Well... Disarm and Trip are pretty good precisely because they don't require you to give up your whole full attack.Speaking of Disarm, we need more armed enemies in OSB. =(
You're all my wtiness! He is the one who said it!