Excessive Price Increases


Paizo General Discussion

Grand Lodge

I think it was a year or two ago that Paizo announced a price increase on the Adventure Paths because they had been that price since the start. Now we had another price increase and the list price is up to $29.99. That's $360 a year. Yes, you can save $9 a month by subscribing, but that sticks you with a $7 a month delivery fee.

I know the company I work for has far lower shipping charges than Paizo and that is without using the piss-poor Mail Innovations post office delivery option. (I have had mail innovations packages get returned to the sender because they wouldn't deliver to a UPS store box).

I get free shipping on virtually everything I buy from any on-line place these days. I don't know why Paizo is so far behind? Corporate Greed? Paying for the On-Line Pathfinder which I told them was doomed to fail due to the person selected to lead the project? I don't know, but the days of my committing $28 a month to a AP subscription are limited if something doesn't change.


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Pathfinder #100 has a higher price than the others because it has 32 extra pages and a poster map. After the centennial issue, the price goes back to the normal $24.99.

Lantern Lodge

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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Yes... They are charging more just because they are making a bigger issue for this ... Which I think is lame because instead of actually giving us more, they are instead throwing in a bunch of stuff from the past. I don't like paying more for something if all I'm getting is garbage added. Magazines don't raise their issue price to add extra special issue pages ... Especially when it's more of a review of the past.

The shipping side though.... Yes, we are getting ripped off. I have priority and they often place in a flat rate box but they charge me more than that. And the last couple months they stopped doing that for their own crap... Plus they use really cheap, pathetic styrofoam peanuts instead of something better. Hell, even these 'peanuts' are the cheapest 'peanuts' I've ever seen --- all tore apart by the time I get them and them a total hassle to clean up because they broke up into thousands of itty bitty pieces.... Never seen such pathetic 'peanuts' in my entire life.

Grand Lodge

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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The company that was the sole-source maker of the "good" packing peanuts decided to stop making them. They hold the patent, so no one else can make those peanuts. That's why Paizo is using the peanuts they're using.

Knowing is half the battle.

-Skeld

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Skeld wrote:

The company that was the sole-source maker of the "good" packing peanuts decided to stop making them. They hold the patent, so no one else can make those peanuts. That's why Paizo is using the peanuts they're using.

Knowing is half the battle.

-Skeld

Or maybe they could just not use peanuts at all... I get plenty of packages from other companies/stores that don't use peanuts and they arrive in fine condition. Actually the green peanuts not only are annoying and a mess to clean up, they're also ineffective at protecting the items.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Considering how beat up my packages usually by the time they get here, especially the ones with hardcovers, I'm glad they put some kind of packing material in there.

I dislike the green peanuts, but if the best option, I'd rather have them than nothing.

-Skeld


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber

Wow. So much bitterness.

First of all, nobody ever gets free shipping, anywhere. If you see those words, what you're getting is "shipping costs are already included in the price of the product".

Second, while you are entitled to your assessment of the value of the extra material in issue #100, you are not entitled to mine.

Third, introducing your prophecy regarding PFOnline into a discussion of something else just seems petty.

Fourth, in general Paizo has been open regarding recent massive price increases in printing costs. Also, there have been open discussions of what writers and artists are paid (hint: while Paizo pays the best in the industry, it's still not much). Since Vic and Lisa don't have yachts, it seems greed isn't a factor.

Fifth, everyone has a pet complaint. The peanuts chosen are a balance of cheap, anti-static, and ecologically friendly. Again, open discussions have shown that these are currently the best option to fill all of the demands reasonably, but nobody claims they are perfect.


Top much bitterness, but I agree the peanuts are a p.i.t.a.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Don't forget Paizo reuses all the peanuts sent to them from suppliers in their own shipments, so sometimes they didn't choose the peanuts, and just re-use existing ones.

Although I think as subscriptions have increased, the ratio of re-used to new peanuts has gone down.

Dark Archive

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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I completely understand the need to increase prices drastically for printing and paper costs, but why did the PDFs also increase the same percentage? Don't think they are paying the writers and artists that much more, especially compared to the number of downloads being purchased. The price increases are keeping me from being a regular buyer of these APs.

Community Manager

PDFs are priced base off the MSRP of the print version—the number of downloads aren't factored into that (that I'm aware of).


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
ckdragons wrote:

I completely understand the need to increase prices drastically for printing and paper costs, but why did the PDFs also increase the same percentage? Don't think they are paying the writers and artists that much more, especially compared to the number of downloads being purchased. The price increases are keeping me from being a regular buyer of these APs.

In fact (although this information is several years out of date) the printing costs are a reasonably minor component of the costs of an AP. It's the writing/development/editting/layout and especially art which is the most significant cost - and those are common across PDF and print versions. No doubt there isn't much in the way of economies of scale either - I suspect developing a big book is considerably more involved (and hence costly) than developing a little book.

Certainly from my pricing of print runs which are way below paizo's numbers the extra pages of paper required would be barely noticeable (though freight costs would no doubt go up).

Grand Lodge

Anguish wrote:

Wow. So much bitterness.

First of all, nobody ever gets free shipping, anywhere. If you see those words, what you're getting is "shipping costs are already included in the price of the product".

Yes, but generally you have other venues to purchase from and can compare the total cost between vendors. The cost to mail a single adventure path volume should be closer to $3 than $7. (I mailed three 12-packs of soda - each weighing more than a years worth of AP material for $28 and that included packaging and was at a retail UPS outlet).

If my local gaming store offered a better price than full retail - I may have been spoiled, but before I moved to Texas, purchases at 15-20% off were standard at game stores. At that point, avoiding the shipping charge and paying sales tax is a wash with subscribing cost wise and allows you to avoid getting stuck with "Iron Gods".

However, you did encourage me to take a look at Amazon and it looks like not only can I purchase the volumes cheaper than I can with my subscription, but I can also get my FREE SHIPPING!

Community Manager

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We have often said that you should make your gaming purchases where it makes the most sense for you and your budget: if that place is Amazon, that's fine. Subscribing from us directly does net you a digital copy for free, and many of our customers feel that the PDF benefit balances out. Sales across multiple channels are important for us, so again, buy where it makes sense for you.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Of course, then you have to wait until Amazon has it in stock, which is erratic at best for new releases of pathfinder books, good luck!


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Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

If you don't "need" an AP volume by street date and a digital copy is valueless to you, Amazon definitely offers a better bargain. I use my PDFs too often to pull out maps for it to be the better option for me.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Discussion on packing peanuts.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Our shipping charges are based on actual cost. Feel free to prove that for yourself by going to postcalc.usps.com and asking it to calculate the shipping for a package from ZIP code 98052 to your own ZIP code. For a standard Adventure Path volume, you'll need to choose "Large Envelope" as the shape. The packaged weight is 15 ounces for a regular volume (Pathfinder #100 has a packaged weight of 1 lb 3 oz). Choose Standard Post—it cannot legally be declared Media Mail. Add $.39 to cover the cost of the sturdy cardboard mailer we use (ULINE S-2665).

Your total will be very close to what we charge for shipping and handling, and may even be *higher* than we charge. If the difference is in our favor, it will be a small difference, and covers the "handling" portion of "shipping and handling" (which is to say those few cents go to pay the people that carefully handle your package).

I just did this for a regular AP volume to Columbus, OH. The USPS quote on postage alone is $7.09; the S&H quote in my paizo.com cart is $6.39.

I did it for PF #100 to the same address; the USPS quote on postage is $10.99; the S&H quote in my paizo.com cart is $6.93.

I did the same for UPS Ground, using ups.com; they would charge $10.27 to ship a standard volume to that same address, and $12.02 for volume #100.

We are able to offer a better price than the USPS because we're using Mail Innovations, a pretty fabulous service that delivers faster and cheaper than the USPS. I'm sorry to hear you've had issues with them—because the "last leg" is actually handled by the USPS, they can't deliver to addresses that the USPS can't deliver to. However, that shouldn't have inconvenienced you, because the sender should, upon processing your address, have received a flag saying that your address wasn't valid for MI, so they should have selected a different method for you.

We have put a lot of effort into ensuring that our shipping costs reflect our actual costs, and on ensuring that we keep those costs as low as we can without losing money on shipping.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Abierzen wrote:
Yes... They are charging more just because they are making a bigger issue for this ... Which I think is lame because instead of actually giving us more, they are instead throwing in a bunch of stuff from the past. I don't like paying more for something if all I'm getting is garbage added. Magazines don't raise their issue price to add extra special issue pages ... Especially when it's more of a review of the past.

To be clear, the additional content is not recycled. It's selection of newly written NPCs. While each was designed with a specific Adventure Path in mind, their use isn't limited solely to those APs—I expect many GMs will find lots of places to insert these folks into their campaigns. There's also a new poster map directly related to the adventure in that volume.

(Also, even though we're actually a book and not a magazine, you'll find that magazines that aren't sustained primarily by advertising *do* tend to raise their cover prices for expanded issues.)


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Paizo's prices are pretty reasonable. Now you want to see excessive price increases go buy some groceries!

Liberty's Edge

Steve Geddes wrote:
I suspect developing a big book is considerably more involved (and hence costly) than developing a little book.

Brother, you don't know the half of it! :)

Dark Archive

We are able to offer a better price than the USPS because we're using Mail Innovations, a pretty fabulous service that delivers faster and cheaper than the USPS. I'm sorry to hear you've had issues with them—because the "last leg" is actually handled by the USPS, they can't deliver to addresses that the USPS can't deliver to. However, that shouldn't have inconvenienced you, because the sender should, upon processing your address, have received a flag saying that your address wasn't valid for MI, so they should have selected a...

I was right with you until here. I have been a subscriber for years and in all that time I have only had two packages have issues and both times it was because of mail innovations. ( lost packages that no one seemed to be able to tell me squat about who had them where they were or anything of any use, except you guys who eventually wound up replacing them and providing excellent customer service at the same time.) I have been forced to use them with other companies and they stink. I spend the extra for priority mail to insure I don't have to deal with the delays, lost packages and general frustration of mail innovations. They may be fine for some folks but I have had such bad luck/experiences with them I avoid using them at all.


Vic Wertz wrote:

Our shipping charges are based on actual cost. Feel free to prove that for yourself by going to postcalc.usps.com and asking it to calculate the shipping for a package from ZIP code 98052 to your own ZIP code. For a standard Adventure Path volume, you'll need to choose "Large Envelope" as the shape. The packaged weight is 15 ounces for a regular volume (Pathfinder #100 has a packaged weight of 1 lb 3 oz). Choose Standard Post—it cannot legally be declared Media Mail. Add $.39 to cover the cost of the sturdy cardboard mailer we use (ULINE S-2665).

Your total will be very close to what we charge for shipping and handling, and may even be *higher* than we charge. If the difference is in our favor, it will be a small difference, and covers the "handling" portion of "shipping and handling" (which is to say those few cents go to pay the people that carefully handle your package).

I just did this for a regular AP volume to Columbus, OH. The USPS quote on postage alone is $7.09; the S&H quote in my paizo.com cart is $6.39.

I did it for PF #100 to the same address; the USPS quote on postage is $10.99; the S&H quote in my paizo.com cart is $6.93.

I did the same for UPS Ground, using ups.com; they would charge $10.27 to ship a standard volume to that same address, and $12.02 for volume #100.

We are able to offer a better price than the USPS because we're using Mail Innovations, a pretty fabulous service that delivers faster and cheaper than the USPS. I'm sorry to hear you've had issues with them—because the "last leg" is actually handled by the USPS, they can't deliver to addresses that the USPS can't deliver to. However, that shouldn't have inconvenienced you, because the sender should, upon processing your address, have received a flag saying that your address wasn't valid for MI, so they should have selected a...

Not criticizing (I am an AP supporter mainly because I support Paizo and excellent customer service), but if shipping is really costing over $10 for US locations, wouldn't it make sense to perhaps use Priority Mail instead? The envelope that is approximately the same size as yours would cost around $5.75 to send to any mainland US location. Now I probably wouldn't advocate doing that for people close to you as it may cost more, but for those further out it would seem it may actually be cheaper in the subscription shipping (for small packages in the envelopes).

On the downside, those USPS priority envelopes don't seem to be as durable as your excellent envelopes are. However, (I normally don't look at the shipping charges all that intently to tell the truth), if shipping costs are exceeding or getting close to $10, perhaps you might consider the priority envelopes and sending them via that method?

Just a thought on the revelations on shipping prices.

Liberty's Edge

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Starfinder Superscriber
Liz Courts wrote:
Subscribing from us directly does net you a digital copy for free, and many of our customers feel that the PDF benefit balances out.

This is why I subscribe to as many lines as I do.

I like the physical copies for reading. But I really don't like carrying them around. (Especially now that there are so many of them. I often do bring the Core rulebook with me, and maybe the Bestiary, and if I'm running a module, that one, but that's it. Everything else is in my tablet and/or laptop.) So, ideally, I'd want both the print and PDF copies. I don't subscribe to the RPG line, because Paizo early on made the decision (that I applaud) to make those books all just $10 for the PDFs... so those are one that I still get from a F"L"GS, or a vendor at a gameday, when possible. (Aside: quotes around L because the most local game store is about an hour's drive away. But, I sometimes play gamedays at one, so I'm there.)

(I also play a fair bit online, which is why I like to have PDFs of the maps.)


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

GreyWolfLord, those flat rate envelopes are really flimsy. I don't think I've ever received one that wasn't half torn when it got here. I would think it might end up costing Paizo more in replacing books that got damaged in transit.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Joana wrote:
GreyWolfLord, those flat rate envelopes are really flimsy. I don't think I've ever received one that wasn't half torn when it got here. I would think it might end up costing Paizo more in replacing books that got damaged in transit.

Plus Vic was looking at the pricing for volume 100, which is even thicker and heavier than the usual AP volume, and is even less likely survive the trip in a priority envelope.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Joana wrote:
GreyWolfLord, those flat rate envelopes are really flimsy. I don't think I've ever received one that wasn't half torn when it got here. I would think it might end up costing Paizo more in replacing books that got damaged in transit.

Yeah—we used them in the early days of the AP line, and had far too many customer complaints and sent out far too many replacements.


Would the Paizo Envelopes fit into the priority envelopes?

If they would...that would solve the flimsy problem I'd imagine.

Edit: Just to be clear, I really don't have a dog in this fight...perhaps it's where I live or other things, but I really don't worry about the cost of shipping to me from Paizo currently.

I'm just postulating in regards to priority mail and what others above stated.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
GreyWolfLord wrote:
Would the Paizo Envelopes fit into the priority envelopes?

Nope. Just tried one, and they're about a half a centimeter too tall for the Priority flap to close.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

On free shipping from other providers:

You don't get something for nothing. You either pay for the privilege of free shipping (e.g. Amazon Prime), or the cost of shipping is factored in the price.

As for the Paizo warehouse...

I've never been there, but I have to imagine that Paizo provides better working conditions for the warehouse staff than, say, Amazon.

Liberty's Edge

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Starfinder Superscriber

Raptors could tear apart an employee monthly at Paizo, and it would still be better working conditions than Amazon.


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Vic Wertz wrote:

I just did this for a regular AP volume to Columbus, OH. The USPS quote on postage alone is $7.09; the S&H quote in my paizo.com cart is $6.39.

I did it for PF #100 to the same address; the USPS quote on postage is $10.99; the S&H quote in my paizo.com cart is $6.93.

I did the same for UPS Ground, using ups.com; they would charge $10.27 to ship a standard volume to that same address, and $12.02 for volume #100.

While I appreciate what you are saying, why on earth would you ship the same way I would (go down to the post office and stand in line to ship).

USPS offers business shipping.

http://dbcalc.usps.com/CalculatorSetPage.aspx

"Bound printed matter" (up to 15 lbs) unsorted first class mail (using a 'package' rate not magazine) shows a price range of $2.61 to $3.24 depending on distance to anywhere in the US, for 22.4 ounces which should cover the cost even on this latest larger AP.

On what earth would you not take advantage of business mail prices from USPS (or UPS for that matter).

Anyone that has reliable bulk shipping of more than 500 pieces can get much better rates than the average consumer. I'm sure that the local steak shop doesn't buy their meat from the grocery store for the same price I pay for it either. You can mark up stuff how you want but I find that argument disingenuous.

Grand Lodge

rknop wrote:
Raptors could tear apart an employee monthly at Paizo, and it would still be better working conditions than Amazon.

I know the turnover in our warehouse is huge (of the 12 warehouse people who started the same day as I did four years ago, one is still here). I think we ship about 40,000 order lines a day and those people work hard, but I am sure it's not nearly as bad as Amazon.


Ckorik wrote:
Vic Wertz wrote:

I just did this for a regular AP volume to Columbus, OH. The USPS quote on postage alone is $7.09; the S&H quote in my paizo.com cart is $6.39.

I did it for PF #100 to the same address; the USPS quote on postage is $10.99; the S&H quote in my paizo.com cart is $6.93.

I did the same for UPS Ground, using ups.com; they would charge $10.27 to ship a standard volume to that same address, and $12.02 for volume #100.

While I appreciate what you are saying, why on earth would you ship the same way I would (go down to the post office and stand in line to ship).

USPS offers business shipping.

http://dbcalc.usps.com/CalculatorSetPage.aspx

"Bound printed matter" (up to 15 lbs) unsorted first class mail (using a 'package' rate not magazine) shows a price range of $2.61 to $3.24 depending on distance to anywhere in the US, for 22.4 ounces which should cover the cost even on this latest larger AP.

On what earth would you not take advantage of business mail prices from USPS (or UPS for that matter).

Anyone that has reliable bulk shipping of more than 500 pieces can get much better rates than the average consumer. I'm sure that the local steak shop doesn't buy their meat from the grocery store for the same price I pay for it either. You can mark up stuff how you want but I find that argument disingenuous.

I also find the combination arguments of, "We could afford to sell print products for less but then we would undercut FLGS retailers," and "we cannot lose money on shipping," to be a precarious juxtaposition.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
BigDTBone wrote:
I also find the combination arguments of, "We could afford to sell print products for less but then we would undercut FLGS retailers," and "we cannot lose money on shipping," to be a precarious juxtaposition.

No, it's not disingenuous. From the face if it, this is good business practice. Remember that, while Paizo makes cool stuff for a game we all love, it is a business. They pay people real money to make this stuff, at a very high production quality. That ain't cheap. They have to turn a profit or else we don't get any more cool stuff for this game we all love.

I think you're mixing apples and oranges-- or at least cover price with shipping costs. I'm pretty sure Vic was referring to cover price when saying that Paizo direct sales can't undercut FLGS prices. For one, gaming stores are a the biggest marketing tool Paizo has. Do you think that any FLGS would bother hosting PFS games if they knew that all of the players could get Paizo materials cheaper straight from the manufacturer than they could? Game stores mainly host games so that players will buy their materials at that store.

As for shipping and handling... Remember the "handling" part. Paizo pays real people a living wage in a very hot real estate market to pack up boxes and ship their awesome products to you. Again, that ain't cheap.

For those of us who want both the PDF and the print copy, it is a better deal to subscribe than to order from a cheaper source for the print version (e.g. Amazon), and then buy the PDF.


Haladir wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
I also find the combination arguments of, "We could afford to sell print products for less but then we would undercut FLGS retailers," and "we cannot lose money on shipping," to be a precarious juxtaposition.

No, it's not disingenuous. From the face if it, this is good business practice. Remember that, while Paizo makes cool stuff for a game we all love, it is a business. They pay people real money to make this stuff, at a very high production quality. That ain't cheap. They have to turn a profit or else we don't get any more cool stuff for this game we all love.

I think you're mixing apples and oranges-- or at least cover price with shipping costs. I'm pretty sure Vic was referring to cover price when saying that Paizo direct sales can't undercut FLGS prices. For one, gaming stores are a the biggest marketing tool Paizo has. Do you think that any FLGS would bother hosting PFS games if they knew that all of the players could get Paizo materials cheaper straight from the manufacturer than they could? Game stores mainly host games so that players will buy their materials at that store.

As for shipping and handling... Remember the "handling" part. Paizo pays real people a living wage in a very hot real estate market to pack up boxes and ship their awesome products to you. Again, that ain't cheap.

For those of us who want both the PDF and the print copy, it is a better deal to subscribe than to order from a cheaper source for the print version (e.g. Amazon), and then buy the PDF.

So, a few things.

(1) I didn't say disingenuous. I didn't accuse or suggest deception of any kind.

(2) I did say "precarious juxtaposition." As in the two statements taken together cause issues of logic. Not the arguments individually. So I agree each of those statements in a vacuum is valid. But they weren't made that way.

(3) It's all a bag of M&Ms. At the end of the day, the customer is paying a single dollar amount to get the product in their hands. Shipping and Print are inseparable (and therefore the distinction is immaterial) until Paizo starts allowing warehouse pickup. IE, you can say that one is an apple and one is an orange but if you force me to buy them as a fruit salad it doesn't much matter. Similarly, you can tell me that red M&Ms are $.12 and blue M&Ms are $.08, but if you don't allow me the opportunity to buy them separately then you effectively told me that all M&Ms are $.10. Even if that isn't true in your supply chain.

(4) I did say "precarious juxtaposition." (Again) My statement wasn't that the things Vic said on the topic don't hold true for his business, and I'm quite certain that he knows the ins and outs of his P&L better than I do. What I can say as both a customer and a business owner is that those statements together don't engender much faith on my part that Paizo actually cares about the price discrepancy. More likely they have done the calculus and determined that the customers they gain from giving away shipping on first party product won't outweigh the loss from the shipping. That however is a totally different equation from determining if an individual sale has profit or not. I could be wrong but I don't think so, because a common theme among support staff is, "If you feel like ordering directly from us isn't your best option then feel free to take the option best for you. We understand." (That was a paraphrase.) That statement is in keeping with a company that understands they are going to lose a sale today but will make up the profit later.

(5) I did say "precarious juxtaposition." (Again Again) And precarious things stand on their own all the time. Essentially, I'm only saying that at first glance it looks like it will fall. I happen to personally think it does fall flat. But clearly, you don't think that those statements fall flat. So, maybe they don't.


I find myself forced to wait for sales. The exchange rate up here is brutal. 70 cents to the USD. Ouch.

When I did partake of the non-mint sale in October, I did not buy everything I wanted because of the shipping cost. I can get things from the UK via air mail for the same price I get them from the US, and they arrive sooner.

Furthermore, the courier was nothing but trouble. They destroyed my package. If I'd bought any minis, they would've been lost to the ages through the hole that went from edge to edge vertically. My one mint book was very non-mint by the time it got here. They couldn't deliver to my rural address, so I sent it to my grandma's. When it got there, my poor GG was forced to pay 20$ in duties, which I'd already paid. Trying to get restitution from the courier was like pulling teeth. They wanted me to call them back in 10 days after the visa charge had cleared so they could reverse it. I called visa, who were very kind about the whole matter and reversed the charges immediately. They wanted to take the package back to examine it, which after all the bull I'd already endured, I flat out refused. I told them I'd send pictures of the packaging and damaged articles. They never contacted me with an address to send my pictures. Very disappointed. I used to subscribe and Canada Post delivered to my address and did not destroy anything.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path Subscriber
rknop wrote:
Raptors could tear apart an employee monthly at Paizo, and it would still be better working conditions than Amazon.

Depends on if you're a raptor. That's a starvation diet. Amazon feeds them much better.


Haladir wrote:


No, it's not disingenuous. From the face if it, this is good business practice. Remember that, while Paizo makes cool stuff for a game we all love, it is a business. They pay people real money to make this stuff, at a very high production quality. That ain't cheap. They have to turn a profit or else we don't get any more cool stuff for this game we all love.

I think his point is - if you say you could afford to sell for less than face value but won't undercut your distribution channel - you could 'hide' the lower cost in a lower shipping and handling cost. This allows you to sell your product at retail value and still pass a savings along to your customer if they buy directly.

As I stated above - they can charge however they want and I support that. I don't support using run-around logic to justify the cost. They shouldn't be paying anything close to what I would pay for shipping (regardless of carrier). I have dealt with much smaller shipping runs (of heavier objects) and all the shippers were willing to work out deals. Any department that has regular shipments gets equipment that helps expedite the shipping process and cuts costs. That's one statement.

If (I didn't see the statement about lower prices quoted above) they claim they won't undercut the FLGS and then combine that with 'our shipping costs are the same as yours' it doesn't pass the smell test. I just don't understand why they can't just be honest and say 'We pay our warehouse people a living wage and so our fees are higher' - the entire thing doesn't change the value proposition for me (for now) but dancing around the topic does not make me feel awesome about it.

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