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It hasn't been talked about at all if such a character exists but, seeing as how swords fighting is a decent sized thing in the pathfinder world there probably is a worlds greatest sword-master. So I would like some input from the community about what you think the worlds greatest sword-master is like. Here as some questions to help you think about it:
What does he or she fight with? What particular kind of sword? Do they use one sword and leave the other hand free? Two swords? Sword and Shield? Or a Two handed?
Do they have a particular fighting style? A minor list includes Aldori, Dervish Dancer, Rondelero, Ustalavic, Red Mantis, and Sword Saint.
What race is the person? What human race? Maybe they could be an elf, dwarf, samsaran or something else entirely?
What class are they? As long as they don't use magic I think any class would be fair game.
What personality do you think they have? Are they a silent loner or maybe a playful worshiper of Cayden Cailean?
And finally what CR do you think the worlds greatest sword-master is? The only thing I have to say about that is Jarl Gnargorak is CR 25 and he isn't the worlds greatest sword-master so they have to be stronger then him.
I'm sure there area few dozen people who think they are.
There are probably masters of each different style, if we look hard enough we may find them. The Aldori comes to mind for that, as well as Rondelero and Ustalavic. I doubt the Red Mantis care too much, though someone is probably their acknowledged best. Practitioners of different styles likely espouse the superiority of their own styles. But I doubt they actively try to prove their style the best, as a large part of combat skill is based on level and feats and class abilities. Aldori swordsmen might truly be the best...until we find that the highest level Aldori Swordlord is 16th level, and he ticks off the first Red Mantis assassin, who is running around with 10 mythic tiers.
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There are probably masters of each different style, if we look hard enough we may find them. The Aldori comes to mind for that, as well as Rondelero and Ustalavic. I doubt the Red Mantis care too much, though someone is probably their acknowledged best. Practitioners of different styles likely espouse the superiority of their own styles. But I doubt they actively try to prove their style the best, as a large part of combat skill is based on level and feats and class abilities. Aldori swordsmen might truly be the best...until we find that the highest level Aldori Swordlord is 16th level, and he ticks off the first Red Mantis assassin, who is running around with 10 mythic tiers.
Of course there are masters of different style and each one is uniquely strong in their own right but, of course people of different styles actively try to prove their style is the best by challenging each other. People in our own world do that. One example is called a Dojo Challenge and people made a living off of that. When said people do try to fight one another it does come down to a combination of build and experience. Both of which in the case of the worlds greatest sword master, who would have the best of.
Savith is probably a contender for that title.
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You'd have to put up criteria.
Swordplay against humanoids is much different then swordplay against monsters. AN Aldori swordlord against an average demon will find much of his Aldori training nigh useless, even while he can humiliate an average Low Crusader who can chew through demons easily.
Likewise, let's have the 'test of the dojo' be: Who is faster at taking down the dire bear?
Some weapon maneuver guy is going to suck it, a greatsword guy will dominate.
"Best swordsman" could mean anyone using a sword. A 20th level barbarian with monster saves and Strength Surge is arguably better with a sword then any fighter weapon Master alive, and certainly has better defenses. Likewise, a high level paladin with his SMite and Sword Bond on is utterly terrifying.
So many different kinds of swords, too.
==Aelryinth
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You'd have to put up criteria.
Swordplay against humanoids is much different then swordplay against monsters. AN Aldori swordlord against an average demon will find much of his Aldori training nigh useless, even while he can humiliate an average Low Crusader who can chew through demons easily.
Likewise, let's have the 'test of the dojo' be: Who is faster at taking down the dire bear?
Some weapon maneuver guy is going to suck it, a greatsword guy will dominate.
"Best swordsman" could mean anyone using a sword. A 20th level barbarian with monster saves and Strength Surge is arguably better with a sword then any fighter weapon Master alive, and certainly has better defenses. Likewise, a high level paladin with his SMite and Sword Bond on is utterly terrifying.
So many different kinds of swords, too.
==Aelryinth
The question by design is supposed to be vague because I want your opinion and examples of what you think the world's greatest sword master might be like. You can make your own criteria. If you think that the world's greatest sword master should be able to disable his or her opponent by disarming or tripping them then that's your version. If you think that a raging barbarian using a great sword is the greatest, that's valid too. The only stipulation with being the world's greatest sword master is that you have to be able to beat anyone else who uses a sword. If you can't do that then you can't be considered the greatest.
As for the barbarian vs the fighter, I would put my money on a well made fighter any day then a well made barbarian.
Then it's an exercise in either theorycrafting or picking whoever from the lore stomped face most convincingly.
Meaning my initial reply stands.
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Then it's an exercise in either theorycrafting or picking whoever from the lore stomped face most convincingly.
Meaning my initial reply stands.
Every board on this website deals with arguments and ideas about a fictional world. Everything in pathfinder is theory crafting. And that is a part of what makes it fun.
Also, I agree that your initial statement is correct. It just doesn't answer the question.
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Once contender is Namzaruum (meaning "the sword"). He is venerated throughout the Windswept Wastes. as a mighty warrior who will one day return to lead his people to greatness. He dates back to Ninshabur, which is based of Assyria. You know you're a pretty good swordsman when your name means "the sword". However, his class and CR are unknown, but he is definitely Ninshaburian. Many things aren't known about him, as he has reached deity status among the people of the Windswept Wastes, which is a testament to his power all by itself.
The only stipulation with being the world's greatest sword master is that you have to be able to beat anyone else who uses a sword.
So a 20th level wizard who happens to be holding the wrong end of a sword while he Wishes the fighter into tiny bits is a valid contender? He can use the sword to do the CdG if that's important.
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...why are people being willfully obtuse? Not every topic has to be parsed in lawyer speak to minutia.
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Once contender is Namzaruum (meaning "the sword"). He is venerated throughout the Windswept Wastes. as a mighty warrior who will one day return to lead his people to greatness. He dates back to Ninshabur, which is based of Assyria. You know you're a pretty good swordsman when your name means "the sword". However, his class and CR are unknown, but he is definitely Ninshaburian. Many things aren't known about him, as he has reached deity status among the people of the Windswept Wastes, which is a testament to his power all by itself.
he's also a myth who does not exist. and maybe he's Aroden.
so... i don't think that he counts.
Once contender is Namzaruum (meaning "the sword"). He is venerated throughout the Windswept Wastes. as a mighty warrior who will one day return to lead his people to greatness. He dates back to Ninshabur, which is based of Assyria. You know you're a pretty good swordsman when your name means "the sword". However, his class and CR are unknown, but he is definitely Ninshaburian. Many things aren't known about him, as he has reached deity status among the people of the Windswept Wastes, which is a testament to his power all by itself.he's also a myth who does not exist. and maybe he's Aroden.
so... i don't think that he counts.
If he is just a myth, then why is the Keleshite sultanate dispatching assassins to kill him if he returns?
Because the whole area will erupt into rebellion if he returns, so they want to dispose of him before that happens. It's called pre-emptive planning!
==Aelryinth
Because the whole area will erupt into rebellion if he returns, so they want to dispose of him before that happens. It's called pre-emptive planning!
==Aelryinth
Exactly, which shows that he will return. He also couldn't be Aroden because his worship is in a completely different area from Aroden and was said the return in "an age of uncertain prophecy", which is the Age of Lost Omens, after Aroden died.
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Exactly, which shows that he will return. He also couldn't be Aroden because his worship is in a completely different area from Aroden and was said the return in "an age of uncertain prophecy", which is the Age of Lost Omens, after Aroden died.Because the whole area will erupt into rebellion if he returns, so they want to dispose of him before that happens. It's called pre-emptive planning!
==Aelryinth
or that they think someone might show up and claim to be him and raise a revolt against the Padishah.
Aroden was walking around for a long, long, long time. No reason he couldn't have shown up in Ninshabur, or that rumors of him could have shown up in Ninshabur, or that he died in Ninshabur and his revenant ghost is speaking to people through the ruined walls.
Who knows?
The Padishah is worried about the tribes of the windswept wastes, who are waiting for this guy (or someone claiming to be this guy) to show up and lead them against his empire. he's justifiably concerned.
I remember very little reading material about Golarion weapon masters (and arcane masters etc.). The iconic characters are said to be built in mediocre ways, so they would drop out. And the absence (to a large extent) of NPC masters is probably intentional - the gap can be filled with PCs. Which gives every player the chance to play the most powerful character of his field, without having to beat a NPC which is probably without reach - e.g. because the NPC is level 20 but the campaign stops much earlier.
Anyway, the best sword master... Well, he (she?) would have to start out with talent, then have enough motivation to start training early. Over the course of decades, he'd need to be motivated again and again (e.g. by a violent environment) and to suffer from only little distraction (e.g. family life). Good teachers are a must, and strong opponents are needed also. Additionally he needs some luck to survive all this bloodshed.
I don't think he'd rely on a single style too much. A sword can always be stolen or sundered, so he'd have multiple backup plans - other weapons, unarmed fighting, ranged weapons, escape quickly, some magic tricks etc..
R. A. Salvatore's Drizzt is a good example in my opinion - it's believable how he became one of the best sword masters of the setting.
Drizzt getting so many levels just from a drow weapon academy stretches the xp/level thing to the limit. Why adventure if you can just enter an academy and hit 15th level that way? WHy haven't drow conquered the world if they can just train their fighters all the way to the teens in a handful of years?
He was also impossible to stat up under the formal 1-2E system, effectively becoming a ranger who kept all the abilities of a fighter for weapon spec, AND got an instant kill crit ability on top.
In terms of 1e, Drizzt is a crappy swordsman. He had no strength bonus, only a high Dex. There were no parry mechanics in 1e, and high dex did nothing for your attack ability. Effectively, WUlfgar should have been able to kick his ass repeatedly wielding that +5 hammer with his 19 Str (+3 th/+7 dmg).
The only reason drizzt was viable was because wielding 2 weapons gave him a blizzard of attacks, and the fact he was 15th+ level, higher then everyone else in the party. when you're getting 5 attacks with magic weapons and everyone else is getting 2 at best, of course you look good. You just have to ignore the fact that he was getting NO STRENGTH BONUS on any attack, and didn't even have magic weapons on the surface until halfway through the first book, when he picked up Icingdeath, and the second book, where he was gifted with Twinkle.
==Aelryinth
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Drizzt getting so many levels just from a drow weapon academy stretches the xp/level thing to the limit. Why adventure if you can just enter an academy and hit 15th level that way? WHy haven't drow conquered the world if they can just train their fighters all the way to the teens in a handful of years?
He was also impossible to stat up under the formal 1-2E system, effectively becoming a ranger who kept all the abilities of a fighter for weapon spec, AND got an instant kill crit ability on top.
In terms of 1e, Drizzt is a crappy swordsman. He had no strength bonus, only a high Dex. There were no parry mechanics in 1e, and high dex did nothing for your attack ability. Effectively, WUlfgar should have been able to kick his ass repeatedly wielding that +5 hammer with his 19 Str (+3 th/+7 dmg).
The only reason drizzt was viable was because wielding 2 weapons gave him a blizzard of attacks, and the fact he was 15th+ level, higher then everyone else in the party. when you're getting 5 attacks with magic weapons and everyone else is getting 2 at best, of course you look good. You just have to ignore the fact that he was getting NO STRENGTH BONUS on any attack, and didn't even have magic weapons on the surface until halfway through the first book, when he picked up Icingdeath, and the second book, where he was gifted with Twinkle.
==Aelryinth
Drizzt was viable because he had Guenhwyvar and plot armor.
Man, those books were so cool!
he's also a myth who does not exist.
In Pathfinder "mythic" doesn't mean fictional, it means overpowered.
I always maintained that Entreri was actually a better swordsman, considering he achieved near-parity in a fraction of the time and without having a weapons master holding his hand nearly the entire time. Oh, and he used a wider variety of swords over his published career.
*cough*
Sorry, fanboy moment over.
For now.
Suffice to say that while Golarion has multiple "wow, being a wizard rocks!" characters in the lore, NPCs known for being the greatest swordsmen of all time are actually thinner on the ground.
well, it's just like FR.
In it's heyday, if you went looking through the material, the number of martial/20ish characters was under 10. The highest level martial was a barb/30 in the bloodstone lands, and the next was a f/23 in the South (ex Thayan Slave).
But MU 20+? They were ALL OVER THE PLACE. Seriously, every major city seemed to have an archmage. Heck, there was a lighthouse off the coast of Tethyr that had a Continual Light spell cast at 47th level or something! Shoon is what, level 39 or something?
Now, archpriests and Archdruids? Almost invisible. I think there were 1-2 statted Cleric 20+'s in the whole FR, and not a single Druid.
Ditto Rogues. Don't remember any Rogue or Thf/20's.
So, 'master swordsmen' aren't spoken of, becuase it really means 'master martial', and those just fade into shadows. Really, given the lack of attention paid to high level martials, and how easily they die to high level casters, I'm surprised there's any around to be famous at all.
==Aelryinith
It hasn't been talked about at all if such a character exists but, seeing as how swords fighting is a decent sized thing in the pathfinder world there probably is a worlds greatest sword-master. So I would like some input from the community about what you think the worlds greatest sword-master is like. Here as some questions to help you think about it:
What does he or she fight with? What particular kind of sword? Do they use one sword and leave the other hand free? Two swords? Sword and Shield? Or a Two handed?
Do they have a particular fighting style? A minor list includes Aldori, Dervish Dancer, Rondelero, Ustalavic, Red Mantis, and Sword Saint.
What race is the person? What human race? Maybe they could be an elf, dwarf, samsaran or something else entirely?
What class are they? As long as they don't use magic I think any class would be fair game.
What personality do you think they have? Are they a silent loner or maybe a playful worshiper of Cayden Cailean?
And finally what CR do you think the worlds greatest sword-master is? The only thing I have to say about that is Jarl Gnargorak is CR 25 and he isn't the worlds greatest sword-master so they have to be stronger then him.
Miyamoto Musashi circa 1645, was said to be so good at sword dueling that he switched to wooden swords to try to avoid killing those who challenged him to duels. Because he had killed so many, he was constantly on the run from noble families seeking revenge, even going to the extremes of trying to disguise himself as a woman at times. During one of those periods of solitude, he composed the work he is famous for.. The Book of Five Rings.
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Miyamoto Musashi circa 1645, was said to be so good at sword dueling that he switched to wooden swords to try to avoid killing those who challenged him to duels. Because he had killed so many, he was constantly on the run from noble families seeking revenge, even going to the extremes of trying to disguise himself as a woman at times. During one of those periods of solitude, he composed the work he is famous for.. The Book of Five Rings.It hasn't been talked about at all if such a character exists but, seeing as how swords fighting is a decent sized thing in the pathfinder world there probably is a worlds greatest sword-master. So I would like some input from the community about what you think the worlds greatest sword-master is like. Here as some questions to help you think about it:
What does he or she fight with? What particular kind of sword? Do they use one sword and leave the other hand free? Two swords? Sword and Shield? Or a Two handed?
Do they have a particular fighting style? A minor list includes Aldori, Dervish Dancer, Rondelero, Ustalavic, Red Mantis, and Sword Saint.
What race is the person? What human race? Maybe they could be an elf, dwarf, samsaran or something else entirely?
What class are they? As long as they don't use magic I think any class would be fair game.
What personality do you think they have? Are they a silent loner or maybe a playful worshiper of Cayden Cailean?
And finally what CR do you think the worlds greatest sword-master is? The only thing I have to say about that is Jarl Gnargorak is CR 25 and he isn't the worlds greatest sword-master so they have to be stronger then him.
Well I definitely need to read that book.
Well I definitely need to read that book.Miyamoto Musashi circa 1645, was said to be so good at sword dueling that he switched to wooden swords to try to avoid killing those who challenged him to duels. Because he had killed so many, he was constantly on the run from noble families seeking revenge, even going to the extremes of trying to disguise himself as a woman at times. During one of those periods of solitude, he composed the work he is famous for.. The Book of Five Rings.It hasn't been talked about at all if such a character exists but, seeing as how swords fighting is a decent sized thing in the pathfinder world there probably is a worlds greatest sword-master. So I would like some input from the community about what you think the worlds greatest sword-master is like. Here as some questions to help you think about it:
What does he or she fight with? What particular kind of sword? Do they use one sword and leave the other hand free? Two swords? Sword and Shield? Or a Two handed?
Do they have a particular fighting style? A minor list includes Aldori, Dervish Dancer, Rondelero, Ustalavic, Red Mantis, and Sword Saint.
What race is the person? What human race? Maybe they could be an elf, dwarf, samsaran or something else entirely?
What class are they? As long as they don't use magic I think any class would be fair game.
What personality do you think they have? Are they a silent loner or maybe a playful worshiper of Cayden Cailean?
And finally what CR do you think the worlds greatest sword-master is? The only thing I have to say about that is Jarl Gnargorak is CR 25 and he isn't the worlds greatest sword-master so they have to be stronger then him.
If I've read things correctly Musashi is the person who inspired the term "Sword Saint"... Kensai in classic Japanese.
As a philosophical musing on bushido and swordplay, the Book of Five Rings can be VERY dry reading.
He's the inspiration for the man who founded the Mirumoto Family of the Dragon clan in the Legend of 5 Rings RPG.
==Aelryinth
As a philosophical musing on bushido and swordplay, the Book of Five Rings can be VERY dry reading.
It's short and to the point, though.
Remember, this thread is about the greatest sword master is Golarion, not ever.
:P
The person who taught Sirian Aldori everything about swordsmanship, when he was over in Sarusan...
... can't recall their name...
:P
The person who taught Sirian Aldori everything about swordsmanship, when he was over in Sarusan...
... can't recall their name...
It was never stated that Aldori went to Sarusan, partially due to he fact that he wouldn't have remembered what he learned, because most who go to Sarusan forget what they saw there.
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It was never stated that Aldori went to Sarusan, partially due to he fact that he wouldn't have remembered what he learned, because most who go to Sarusan forget what they saw there.:P
The person who taught Sirian Aldori everything about swordsmanship, when he was over in Sarusan...
... can't recall their name...
Just like anyone who encounters a Yithian forgets their time there. Hmmmm..
Half Elf with ancestral weapon, and fight and magus as favored classes
Magic trait Magical heritage, and combat trait armor expert
Starting Stats 20 point buy: str 15+2 race, dex 14, con 14, int 14, wis 12, cha 7
1. Unchained monk: dodge, improved unarmed strike, stunning fist, crane style, EWP(bastard sword)
2. Magus: spell combat, 1st level spells
3. Magus: spell strike, craft wondrous item
4. Magus: familiar, +1str
5. Magus: Power Attack, 2nd level spells, spell recall
6. Magus: Furious Focus
7. Magus: Improved Familiar, Snape dragon, Make Whole
8. Magus: Knowledge pool, Medium Armor, 3rd level spells, +1 str
9. Weapon Master Fighter: Combat Reflexes, One Handed Weapon Tricks
10. Weapon Master Fighter: Vital Strike
11. Weapon Master Fighter: weapon training (Bastard Sword), Cut from the Air
12. Eldritch Knight: Smash from the Air, +1 str
13. Eldritch Knight: Sacrifice Weapon
14. Eldritch Knight:
15. Eldritch Knight: Weapon Focus, 4th level spells
16. Eldritch Knight: Greater Weapon Focus, +1 str
17. Eldritch Knight: Mobility
18. Eldritch Knight: 5th level spells
19. Eldritch Knight: Spring Attack
20. Eldritch Knight: Penetrating strike, +1 str
This is my sword master build. It cut spells out of the air. Improve sword through ability, getting more out of a blade than most can. Can hit and more, go on the defense, or go on the attack.
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I personally think the Worlds Greatest Sword Master would be best fighting with his weapon of choice against another Martial character in a duel. He isn't the greatest Monster Slayer, the greatest general, etc. He is a guy with a sword fighting another guy with a sword.
That said I think a contender for best swordsman alive would be an Elf Fighter. Considering they can live to be about 1,000 years old he would have plenty of time to practice his skill to perfection. Just waiting for someone to challenge him to a duel for the title.
Elf Fighter(Weapon Master)
Skills would be in Intimidate and Sense Motive
Feats
Lv1-Weapon Focus: Elven Curved Blade
Fighter 1(F1): Weapon Finesse (Elven Curved Blades can benifit from this)
F2: Power Attack
Weapon Guard(+5 CMD/disarm and sunder)
Lv3:Dodge
Weapon Training: +5 attack/damage
F4: Weapon Specialization: Elven Curved Blade +2 damage
Lv5: Mobility
Reliable Strike(4/day)
F6: Vital Strike
Lv7: Spring Attack
F8: Greater Weapon Focus: +2 elven curved blade
Lv9:Improved Critical(double critical range of Elven Curved Blade)
Mirror Move: +5 AC vs Elven Curved Blade
Lv11: Improved Vital Strike
F12: Greater Weapon Specialization: Elven Curved Blade: +2 more damage
Lv13: Critical Focus: +4 to confirm crits
Deadly Critical(3/day): improve critical damage multiplyer by +1 with Elven Curved Blade
Lv15: Bleeding Critical: 2d6 bleed on crits
F16: Greater Vital Strike
Lv17: Blinding critical
Critical Specialist: save DC's of critical hit abilities increase by +4
Lv19: critical Mastery: apply 2 crit effects
Unstoppable Strike: standard action to make one attack a touch attack.
+5 Elven Curved Blade
to hit= +20(BA)+2(weapon focuses)+dex-6(power attack)+5(magic)=21+Dex
*Unstoppable Strike can make this a touch attack.
Damage=1d10(base)+5(weapon training)+4(weapon specialization)+18(power attack with two handed weapon)+3d10(Vital Strike)+5(magic)+Str=4d10+27+Str
Crits= 15-20x2(3/day x3), +4 confirm, 2d6 bleed, Blind Fort DC 34(dazzled 1d4 if save)
Maximum Damage for a single attack on a Crit is 7d10+27+Str+2d6 Bleed+Blind.
Blind combined with Spring Attack would allow him to literally dance around his opponent once he blinded them.
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Remember, this is the greatest sword-master in Golarion lore, not building a really powerful swordfighter.
Well maaybe some of the Linnorm Kings could fit. They are all high level and manged to defeat a powerfl linnorm alone without magic.
Sveinn Blood-Eagle or white Estrid are really strong fighers.
Remember, this is the greatest sword-master in Golarion lore, not building a really powerful swordfighter.
Well, according to Inner Sea Combat:
-Savith was a lvl 20 human fighter tier 6 champion.
-Arnisant was a lvl 20 human cavalier
-Sveinn Blood-Eagle is a lvl 18 human barbarian
-Kerdak Bonefist is a lvl 8 human fighter, lvl 10 inner sea pirate
-Grask Uldeth is a lvl 17 orc barbarian
-Sirian Aldori was a lvl 7 human fighter, lvl 10 duelist
-Ytharia Vulane is a lvl 10 human gunslinger, ranger 6
Aside from almost everyone being human (seriously... the only dwarf mentioned is Borogrim the Hale, fighter 8/aristocrat 5, then you have a tiefling, an half orc a halfling and... a centaur).
So AFAIK these are the people who can officially be considered the "best martials" of Golarion. But keep in mind the likes of Sveinn are not going to be considered "swordmasters" in the same sense as the likes of Sirian Aldori were.