Archetype Tier List: A Guide to Picking Archetypes


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Swamp Druid
Power 0 Versatility -1
Less wildshape power and a less common terrain than forests, as well as poison resistance being more useful than disease due to frequency.
However constant freedom of movement is great, although completely doable with a single magic item. Combine this with the fact swamp movement tends to be more useful versus the creatures in it than druids usual fare, you're given some saving graces in power but a much more narrow skill set.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
avr wrote:

{. . .}

Boar Shaman
Power -1, Versatility -1
Seeing pigs as your ideal is about as useful as you expect overall, {. . .} Don't idealise pigs.
{. . .}
And whatever you do, never try to teach a pig to sing.

Hiiii-yah!

UnArcaneElection wrote:
avr wrote:

{. . .}

Shark Shaman
Power 0, Versatility -1
If the game isn't at least partly underwater there's no reason to take this archetype, so for this review I'm assuming that your game is. Even then a shark animal companion is a pain more often than a boon, so take the War domain or the more normal druidic Animal or Water (Death isn't a good idea without other class features for using undead). {. . .}

It just occurred to me that you could go VMC Wizard (Necromancer or Undead Necromancer) to cover this if you want to use Undead.

If you want to Fight Undead, or get the Pharasmin version of the Death Domain and go VMC Wizard (Life Necromancer) to cover this, although that option doesn't work as well, and you don't have the option to go VMC Hallowed Necromancer Wizard (although that isn't a very good archetype itself).

Being able to command undead is a start, but the save is based on Cha, you still lack the ability to fix your undead, you don't have desecrate...not good. Pharasma's death domain is better I guess tho' I'd probably save my feats and skip VMC.

"Wonderstell wrote:
"Great work! Now there's only the Eagle Shaman, Swamp Druid, and the racial archetypes left of druid. As far as I know at least.

I saw the Swamp Druid. Dunno how it slipped away. The Eagle was flying too high for me to spot it tho'.

Eagle Shaman
Power 0, Versatility -1
A bird animal companion is really weak, so you're taking one of the domains. Nobility isn't bad or of course you can take one of those more typical for druids. The standard action summons include useful creatures at a wide variety of levels and of course they all fly. The enhanced wild shape options are odd; you get nothing much from being able to change into an eagle at +2 level effect, and rocs are gargantuan so you never actually get the ability to turn into one. The totem transformation abilities include flight, and the natural attack option uses your feet (talons) instead of hands which is useful if you want to use weapons or a shield. Workable rather than anything special overall.

Swamp Druid
Power -1, Versatility -1
The minor changes are weak, not least because swamp is unlikely to be the main terrain in any campaign, but at level 13 constant freedom of movement is a solid plus. Against that you're not getting anything for the delay to wildshape from levels 4 to 12 inclusive.

Those grippli and trolls and whatever can wait until tomorrow.


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While I'm sure there's a few archetypes missing, here's the classes in need of reviews at the moment.

Reviews needed:
Bard - 2 (Detective, Prankster (Gnome))
Druid - 7
Inquisitor - 13
Medium - 14
Omdura - 2
Oracle - 8
Paladin - 44
Psychic - 2
Shaman - 16
Spiritualist - 18
Unchained Summoner - 4

Animal Companions - 19

***

Paladin is the biggest one, which is pretty unsurprising considering that it's the oldest class left.


Wonderstell wrote:


@JiaYou

Hm, yeah that original review doesn't sound right. Though, it'd be pretty good if you qualified for rage powers at your ranger level, but I'm confident you're supposed to use your level-3.

I didn't even catch on to that point and makes it even worse than I had thought! Absolutely power -1 then. The Primal Hunter barbarian is definitely weaker in the skills department than the ranger but to me it's a real indictment that a barbarian archetype does "stalking archer" better than a ranger can.


While I'm also thinking swamp druid is weak I don't think the trade offs are worth a full -1 power. That being said I will agree losing 2 levels of wild shape for a level 13 payoff is pretty bad.

Detective Bard
Power -1 versatility 0
You lose some of the best party buffs in the game for an hour duration buff to some of the most important rolls in the game, going first and spotting trouble. Increased spells known is great and class may be one of the few ways to shut down some of the worst encounters with the ability to make the enemy reveal themselves and even open doors. Added trapfinding makes this a perfect companion to a bard already in the group and no rogues. On it's own however the lack of inspire courage is too noticable to ignore.


Animal Companions:
Aberrant
Power -1, Versatility -1

It loses many useful abilities, and you'll have trouble using your companion at lower levels due to all Handle Animal DCs being 5 higher.

Ambusher
Power -1, Versatility -1

Companions that deal damage often have trouble making stealth checks since they're pretty much all large, and have one skill rank per HD. So I'm skeptical you'll even use the Cunning Ambusher ability.

Apex Species
Power -1, Versatility +0

Access to Climb/Swim/Burrow and some energy resistance, but the choices can't be changed. Energy resistance in place of Evasion is a clear downgrade, so the real benefit is to get another movement type at level 9.

Augmented
Power -1, Versatility -1

Half animal, half machine. Now your companion is harder to handle, harder to heal, and more easily enchanted.

Auspice
Power +1, Versatility +1

Basically +1 Competence bonus to every action you take outside of combat, and also one Domain Power once per day.

Bodyguard
Power +1, Versatility +1

Alertness is a bonus to the most important skill in the game, so yeah it's nice. If you share teamwork feats, taking Lookout would also give you the ability to always act in the surprise round.

Bully
Power +1, Versatility +0

This archetype allows you to take Improved Reposition or Trip at level 5 instead of 8, saving a feat you'd normally use on Dirty Fighting in the process.

Charger [C]
Power +0, Versatility -1

Basically Armor Training for barding, which means both more AC and better movement speed. This also means flying mounts can wear Heavy Armor and fly, since their movement isn't reduced.
But AC isn't everything, and you trade other defensive abilities for this benefit.

Daredevil
Power +0, Versatility +0

A competence bonus to acrobatics, Mobility (or Spring Attack) as a bonus feat, and can't be flanked. It's a free feat if you're working up to Spring Attack for a Ride-by Attack build, but usually it's better to take Escape Route.

Deathtouched
Power -1, Versatility -2

Harder to handle, heals from Negative energy, and can now get smacked by effects targeting the most common enemy in the game: undead. Even if you channel negative energy, you can afford a wand of CLW.

Draconic
Power -1, Versatility +1

Energy Resistance against one element, immunity to Sleep/Paralysis, and a breath weapon. Evasion would have benefited you more against elemental damage, and the breath weapon is okayish.

Elemental [C]
Power +2, Versatility +1

Great benefits.
You get to choose between ranged miss chance, DR/Adamantine, smoke sight, and swim speed (and underwater breathing) which all comes as early as level 2. Then you gain another ability at level 9 based on your elemental choice, which includes flight and the Push special ability. This archetype would allow you to pick freely from the companion list even when in an aquatic campaign.

Feytouched
Power -2, Versatility -1

This pretty much gimps your companion to give you the ability to spontaneously cast certain spells (by converting your spells slots).

Precocious [C]
Power +0/-2, Versatility +1

More bonus tricks and a big bonus to all mental ability scores instead of the normal 4th or 7th ability score advancement. It fully depends on your companion, but most of them would be hosed without the big bonus to strength they'd normally get. So if you're taking the Axe Beak or a Tiger, this archetype isn't good at all. But a Horse doesn't lose too much.

Racer
Power +0, Versatility +1

The Sprint ability is hilarious to use, although I'm not quite sure if it multiplies your speed by ten for the action, or sets the maximum movement to ten times your movement.
Either way, the cooldown of one hour is short enough to come up several times per day, and it's basically a nitro when you need it.

Totem guide [C]
Power -1, Versatility +1

Guidance whenever you want it, and if you're a caster you gain six new spells you can spontaneously cast. And for our non-casters, you can finally speak with horsey!

Tracker
Power +0, Versatility -1

Your companion gets better at tracking with their Scent.

Unexpected Intellectual
Power +2, Versatility +0

If you can't wait until level 4 then this archetype raises your vermin companions Intelligence by two. It's pretty much mandatory if you want to take any other feats that the normal companion feat list, as you'd then reach Int 3 at level 4 just as a normal companion. But if Share Spells is needed, just buy it a Headband of Vast Intelligence instead.

Verdant
Power +1, Versatility +0

Harder to handle, but it gains a scaling bonus to saves against a bunch of effects, such as mind-affecting and poison.

***

The [C] is for Cavalier, and shows which archetypes are available for them. That's the three archetypes that doesn't touch Share Spells, and Charger which was erratad to work.
I'm glad Elemental is allowed, since it's an easy way to get in-class flight for our otherwise marginalized lancers.


Prankster (gnome racial) bard
Power -1 Versatility -1

Trade offs are minimal but trading a mind effecting compulsion for a language dependant mind effecting compulsion that has additional limitations is not great. Suggestion is simply better, as are using Steal feats if you want to focus on theft. A great concept but poorly executed in adding additional limits to a spell with built in limits. Other class offerings include making you the group tank to reroll a new character even faster.


Well now I want to make a pig druid, take the summon guardian spirit feat to add sin seeker to my summons and summon magical super pigs. It won't be good or useful, but it should be fun.


I dont get it (I gets it's a joke), pigs are broken irl and the archetype is meh. Although I have to admit one of the reasons they are broken is that they make too many babies, too quickly.

But seriously, it makes sense why pigs would be idolized. They are ruthless terraformers and survivalists with few weaknesses and they taste delicious.

**********
The Prankster's performances are indeed meh. Mock could be useful as a taunt, but that's also meh and easy to resist.

However, the Swap ability is great because it is the Steal maneuver and benefits from all feats that benefit Steal. It's also a way to implement the "exploding pants" strategy, but with no item limit; Like say giving an glyph of warding/explosion.


faq wrote:
an eagle shaman druid can use wild shape to take the form of a Medium eagle (as if applying the giant creature simple template to a Small eagle), and can use wild shape to take the form of a Huge roc (as if applying the young creature simple template to a Gargantuan roc). Abilities of the assumed form are determined by which beast shape spell the wild shape ability functions as, as determined by the eagle shaman's effective druid level.

there is that.


Lelomenia wrote:
faq wrote:
an eagle shaman druid can use wild shape to take the form of a Medium eagle (as if applying the giant creature simple template to a Small eagle), and can use wild shape to take the form of a Huge roc (as if applying the young creature simple template to a Gargantuan roc). Abilities of the assumed form are determined by which beast shape spell the wild shape ability functions as, as determined by the eagle shaman's effective druid level.
there is that.

Ah. OK.

Eagle Shaman (revised)
Power 0, Versatility -1
A bird animal companion is really weak, so you're taking one of the domains. Nobility isn't bad or of course you can take one of those more typical for druids. The standard action summons include useful creatures at a wide variety of levels and of course they all fly. Check the FAQ to use the wild shapes at +2 level effect; they're OK if not special. The totem transformation abilities include flight, and the natural attack option uses your feet (talons) instead of hands which is useful if you want to use weapons or a shield. Workable rather than anything special overall.


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Insert Spanish Inquisitor joke:

Abolisher
Power 0/+1 Versatility -1

This is clearly designed as an aberration-fighting archetype, but it actually is decent in a general campaign. Since RAW you can't choose any inquisitions, this archetype locks you into a pretty poor set of domains. The exception to 'poor' is the Animal domain, thankfully. Giving you and your allies a morale bonus to Perception against opposing Stealth and Disguise checks is nothing to sneeze at. If you're up against aberrations, the ability to activate bane as an immediate action before damage is rolled is neat. But the main draw to this archetype, that RAW applies to everything (not just aberration attacks) is immediate action freedom of movement for rounds per day starting at level 5. To me this is what really helps this archetype potentially gain a full power notch. The loss of most domains (and inquisitions) and the loss of stern gaze, detect alignment, and discern lies are what drops versatility a full notch.

Cloaked Wolf
Power -1/0 Versatility 0

This archetype is clearly designed for campaigns that heavily feature surprise and subterfuge. Being able to act in the surprise round is nice, although you give up adding your Wisdom modifier to initiative checks in any other encounter. Bonuses to Disguise and Sleight of Hand is potentially quite nice. Some of the bonus feats may not be as good as the teamwork feats you give up, but many are quite good in campaigns when you never know when you have to run around a ballroom, pick up a serving platter, and bash someone in the face with it.

Expulsionist
Power 0 Versatility -1

If your campaign features haunts, undead, and possession, this is probably a good archetype. Otherwise, this gives you nothing useful in other situations. I don't think losing domain powers is worth a full knock to power. There is one use of this archetype that I think would add utility. If you are playing in a campaign that heavily features evil outsiders or undead, then a potent combination would be taking this archetype and choosing Variant Channeling. For extra oomph, this archetype stacks with Sanctified Slayer so you can use Studied Target to further increase the save DCs of your channeling.

Hexenhammer
Power 0 Versatility 0

First off: Take a look at this archetype! The flavor and trades are so complex it's honestly up to the player if this is a route he/she wants to go down. This archetype epitomizes the hero who lives on the edge, using evil to potentially defeat evil, but knowing that he/she is heading down a path that might lead to personal oblivion. You unfortunately give up stern gaze to gain a more powerful ability that itself keys off your Intimidate score. But Evil Eye is a more useful debuff than shaken (and will stack with shaken or sickened) and since you do the rolling it will probably succeed more often than the actual Witch hex. But the most interesting features of this archetype are the ability to take a few witch hexes and witch spells. Slumber is the main draw, and if you give up a use of Judgment at 3rd level and above you gain an extra use. There are going to definitely be witch spells that will add utility to your character. Using witch spells or trading Judgment for a hex costs you the use of your domain abilities...so choose an inquisition or a domain that gives you an animal companion so you never have to worry about it. On the other hand, if you don't mind only getting one hex use per day until level 9, you can stack this archetype with Sanctified Slayer or Monster Tactician. This archetype does give up everything involving teamwork feats and solo tactics which definitely is a knock against it. In the end I think this archetype adds so much from a mechanical and roleplaying perspective that it's very much worth a look.

Keeper of the Current
Power 0 Versatility 0

Aquatic campaign archetype but doesn't give up anything that would make you truly less effective in other campaigns. Gaining a few water type spells could add versatility and bane is changed but not actually weakened in any way.

Umbral Stalker
Power 0 Versatility 0

This archetype doubles down on stealth. You get scaling bonuses to Stealth and Acrobatics, and the Stalking judgment is pretty strong. This archetype is begging for sneak attack damage though; thankfully, it stacks with Sanctified Slayer if you don't want to dip a level in Rogue.

Vigilant Defender
Power 0 Versatility 0

Another archetype that doesn't really add much and doesn't really take much away. During Judgment being able to give it to all your allies for one round is nice, but since it stops affecting you immediately it's not really a boost. The coaching Protect the Faithful gives you is interesting, but the limited uses per day and the very small bonus it actually provides is somewhat disappointing. Bolster the Wounded is to me an actual upgrade to Exploit Weakness.


avr wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:
avr wrote:

{. . .}

Boar Shaman
Power -1, Versatility -1
Seeing pigs as your ideal is about as useful as you expect overall, {. . .} Don't idealise pigs.
{. . .}
And whatever you do, never try to teach a pig to sing.

Hiiii-yah!

{. . .}

I guess it's okay if they take the initiative . . . .

Wonderstell wrote:

Animal Companions

{. . .}
Precocious [C]
Power +0/-2, Versatility +1

More bonus tricks and a big bonus to all mental ability scores instead of the normal 4th or 7th ability score advancement. {. . .}
{. . .}
Totem guide [C]
Power -1, Versatility +1

Guidance whenever you want it, and if you're a caster you gain six new spells you can spontaneously cast. And for our non-casters, you can finally speak with horsey!
{. . .}
Unexpected Intellectual
Power +2, Versatility +0

If you can't wait until level 4 then this archetype raises your vermin companions Intelligence by two. {. . .}

From looking at the Archives of Nethys Companion Archetypes page, it looks to me like you can combine Unexpected Intellectual with either of the other two (but not with both since the first two modify or replace some of the same things).


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I posted 3 Oracle archetypes that aren't yet included in the document back on page 22.

Ocean's Echo
Power +1 Versatility -0
For the low price of three revelations, you gain all the useful Bardic Performance abilities at full power with no restrictions. Only one of the spells (Sound Burst) is already on the cleric list, and it's not a bad one. Not getting any revelation till 7th level (and thus not being able to take Extra Revelation) hurts a bit, but not enough to cost versatility.

Planar Oracle
Power -1 Versatility -1
This archetype swaps out the bonus spells for a bunch of spells already on the Cleric list (Shadow Walk aside), and they aren't even good ones to have every day. It also swaps out the third revelation with one that's actually strictly worse than one 4/6 of the recommended mysteries get. The final revelation also doesn't understand how Native Outsider works. This archetype isn't cripplingly bad, but it's terrible in the sense that archetypeless is better than this at literally everything.

Prophet
Power -0 Versatility +0
This archetype is just one weird (but useful) revelation, some decent bonus spells and some OK skills. Immediate action free augury or free commune is worth a revelation, and might even be worth Abundant Revelations.

River Soul
Power -1 Versatility -2 (-1 in water campaign)
Whoever wrote the replacement curse missed that Oracle curses are a class feature and are, at worst, supposed to be a hindrance in exchange for a greater boon and instead wrote something that has a pure, crippling, negative. The wording means even if you have a backup vial you're screwed when one is destroyed. This could be forgiven if the rest of the archetype was awesome, but it isn't. The first revelation could be useful if it was always on, but with a duration measured in rounds it's useless. The 11th revelation is almost never usable (water campaigns tend to be based on oceans/seas, not rivers), is very unclear what it does if usable (the author seems to have forgotten how big rivers are), and pretty useless even in the best case scenario (you can hide in a single point of a river for an hour). Some of the spells are OK I guess.


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UnArcaneElection wrote:
From looking at the Archives of Nethys Companion Archetypes page, it looks to me like you can combine Unexpected Intellectual with either of the other two (but not with both since the first two modify or replace some of the same things).

Yup. Since Unexpected Intellectual only replaces Share Spells, the three archetypes that doesn't replace it stacks with it. So those two and Elemental Companion. As for deciding on stacking, I use this tool for a quick overview. It's not perfect, but 80% of the time, it works every time.

====

@JiaYou

Re: the Cloaked Wolf, I'd definitely argue it deserves a full -1 Power and -1 to Versatility. Not only are the abilities downgrades on all fronts, they don't interact in any meaningful way.

Let's start with Lure Prey. You lose a bonus to two social skills for an archetype that is based on social infiltration, which feels really counter-intuitive. But the idea seems to be that you hide weapons on yourself with Sleight of Hand and hide in the crowds with Disguise.

So why does Always Wary only give you a benefit when you're the one getting surprised? If you actually manage to Disguise yourself, why would you be in a position where you have to roll Sense Motive vs an opponent's Bluff to decide a surprise round? Not to mention that if you still had Stern Gaze you'd have a greater chance of actually making the Sense Motive check in the first place.

Then we get a list of bonus feats that are worse than having all teamwork feats at your disposal, and also seems to hinge on the fact that you failed your Sleight of Hand check.

So effectively you lose Cunning Initiative, Monster Lore, and Solo Tactics, while Stern Gaze and Teamwork Feats are downgraded.

***

Re: the Expulsionist, you'll make a poor channeler due to being a martial focused 6th level caster who's already pushing the limits of point buy.

====

@deuxhero

Huh, my bad. So just one Oracle archetype left then?

Edit: Inerrant Voice and Tree Soul are left.


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There's a couple of archetypes here not listed in the document at the mo, just FYI.

Druid racial archetypes:
Feral Child (Human)
Power -1, Versatility -1
There's a lot of changes here but they don't amount to much. Favored terrain is the biggest addition, wild shape the greatest loss, though that's not a direct trade. A bonus equal to the favored terrain bonus to several kinds of saves prevents this from being utterly terrible. Probably a better NPC than a PC though.

Mantella (Grippli)
Power 0, Versatility 0
Becoming immune to all poison at 6th is a decent lure, and while you might think wild shape already gives you the poison of the things you change into, 'all poison abilities' probably includes things like spitting poison which you don't normally get. Losing spontaneous casting is a reasonable cost for this.

Naga Aspirant (Nagaji)
Power +1, Versatility -1
Adding a bunch of spells to your spell list is great, they improve the druid spell list a great deal, but it comes at the cost of a much more restricted than usual wild shape and the loss of some other abilities. Augmenting that naga form never actually makes it good.

Season Keeper (Triaxian)
Power 0, Versatility -1
Some minor but constant party buffs (so long as the party is within 15') are countered by wild shape which will almost always be at -2 levels and the loss of a few minor abilities. It's a loss overall but not a big one.

Season Sage (Gathlain)
Power 0, Versatility -1
Several minor abilities which you could generally duplicate with spells at least a level below your best, but they come out of a unique pool and don't cost spell slots. Useful for a caster druid. You lose wild shape.

Treesinger (Elf or Vine Leshy)
Power 0, Versatility -1
Plant companions are a step below normal animal companions, unless your GM uses a lot of mind-affecting effects or poison, then their immunities could be excellent. The domains are OK. Wild shape into plants only is a step down though.

Troll Fury (Troll)
Power +1, Versatility 0
You can't normally play a troll so this must be an NPC archetype. If you somehow can anyway then a favored enemy and 1/day inspire courage have to be better than the wild empathy and resist nature's lure they replace.

Undine Adept (Undine)
Power +1, Versatility 0
Amphibious, free augment summoning, and a boost to wild shape look worth more than the woodland stride and trackless step you lose. The other changes look neutral. Undines are a good choice of race for a druid anyway, this is a good archetype.


@Wonderstell, losing the bonus to social skills for Cloaked Wolf is like the Hexenhammer losing Stern Gaze while its Evil Eye debuff keys off Intimidate...I was honestly thinking it doesn't deserve a full -1 only because a) I think you could do some gnarly things with Shikigami Style and the like and b) I think the assumption for this archetype is that you will find yourself in situations where you have no weapons at your disposal, so this archetype would be handy for insuring you don't end up like the Starks at the Red Wedding.

For the Expulsionist, basically my implication was that you could create an okay Dazing build out of this paired with Sanctified Slayer.

I think this is the second time I've been told I'm being a softie on some suboptimal archetypes, but I guess the question is this: if an archetype basically forces you to build your character a certain way not to be terrible, but the resulting character is about even with the base class, would that be a 0 for power or a -1 since most potential builds with this archetype are suboptimal? Hence my Shikigami Cloaked Wolf example above: I think it would be decent but pretty much every other build is worse. So is the whole archetype -1 then? I'm totally fine with that being the verdict but if we can clarify this point I think I can be more objective in my evaluations.


JiaYou wrote:
I think this is the second time I've been told I'm being a softie on some suboptimal archetypes, but I guess the question is this: if an archetype basically forces you to build your character a certain way not to be terrible, but the resulting character is about even with the base class, would that be a 0 for power or a -1 since most potential builds with this archetype are suboptimal? Hence my Shikigami Cloaked Wolf example above: I think it would be decent but pretty much every other build is worse. So is the whole archetype -1 then? I'm totally fine with that being the verdict but if we can clarify this point I think I can be more objective in my evaluations.

It would be a 0 if the intended build is either obvious or clearly explained in the review. Then you'd make a judgement call and either make an exception to the bad review for that one build, or base your review on the build. For example, the Abolisher you reviewed is prob +1 Power if you take the Animal Domain. So you could either give it a +0/+1 rating, or simply a +1 rating but specify you're assuming they take the Animal Domain.

As for the Cloaked Wolf, even if you made a Shikigami build it wouldn't be any better than the vanilla class, and in fact loses a bunch of class features. In the case of an improvised Cloaked Wolf build, you'd be able to take Catch Off-Guard or Throw Anything at level 6 for feat prerequisites, which is pretty late considering a Human could have the whole feat line by then. Nothing else helps you make an improvised build, and Inquisitors doesn't make good improvised improvised builds since they need to take Equipment Trick for a specific item to apply Bane.
And even if you really like that feat list, you've still lost Solo Tactics and Monster Lore, while Always Wary is so circumstantial it might as well not exist. None of the other abilities are upgrades, so this archetype is simply worse than the vanilla class even with an improvised build.

****

JiaYou wrote:
For the Expulsionist, basically my implication was that you could create an okay Dazing build out of this paired with Sanctified Slayer.

Yup yup, scary stuff. But the Inquisitor is mainly a martial class, with Judgement, Solo Tactics and good buffing spells. Focusing on Charisma would hurt your martial prowess as you're forced to allocate resources to a previous dump stat, which is a bigger deal for Inquisitors than for a Cleric with 9th level casting.

You could be a good channeler, but in my opinion you give up too much for such a build.


Innerant Voice Oracle

Power 0 Versatility 0

If the ability to trade places was lower level, this would be the best archetype for an Oradin. As it stands nothing gained or lost is worth a full +/- number, although the power is now slightly higher than versatility. Decent for tanking builds/defender builds.

Tree Soul
Power -1 Versatility -1
Your curse will now rarely come up but when it does you're devastated for 12 hours, essentially destroying you unless you're hidden away. If they know you're linked to tree in the first place they know to hunt you down. You receive no curse benefits either, making tailoring your curse to play style non optional. Your revelations are ok but are fixed at levels you would love to have options at (1 and 11). Excellent option for an NPC less so for a player as any damage to the tree comes off more as GM fiat.


@Wonderstell got it. Alright, Cloaked Wolf...you're fired! And Expulsionist! You're...expelled! Today's my busy day at work so you might not have anything new from me, but thanks for clearing that up!


Expulsionist would probably work well Charisma based martials. Who can make use of the extra charisma while not spreading too thin.
Also focusing less of Wis doesn't have much negatives since it doesn't affect buff spells by much.

But yeah that discussion is over.


Omdura

Arcane Exemplar
Power -2, Versatility -1
Trade away some unimportant features and change your casting list in exchange for being a Magus without Spell Combat, the most important part of being a Magus. It's a truly terrible archetype because it casts arcane spells without getting armored casting. If it got at least light armor casting it would only be 0/0, though still worse than an actual Magus at pretty much everything.

Exemplar of War
Power -2, Versatility -2
Omdura is pretty much entirely dependent upon being a spellcaster with a good list to not be a bad class. Giving up spells entirely for some extra bonus feats is absolutely and utterly not worth it.

Unchained Summoner:
Construct Caller
Power -0, Versatility -2
The changes to Inevitable Eidolons are minor and not worth a rating change. The big change is trading Summon Monster for a few extra evolutions, which prevents you from accessing that excellent toybox.

Devil Importer
Power -1, Versatility -1
Losing celestial summoning sucks, even if you're evil anyways since evil tends to fight evil a lot and likes the option. Otherwise the trades are about even overall and it would only be 0/0.

On Oracle, three corrections:

Cyclopean Seer has the words power and versatility mixed at the top. Should be Power -1, Versatility +0.

Spirit Guide should say
"You gain access to any hex and all spells from one of the shaman's spirits, and can pick a different one each day." as the current description misses the spells part (which is the big draw).

Divine Herbalist is the OGL friendly name. Its true name is "Pei Zin Practitioner".


deuxhero wrote:

Arcane Exemplar

If it got at least light armor casting it would only be 0/0, though still worse than an actual Magus at pretty much everything.

Is the jump between not having and having light armor casting really that big?

I feel as if you'd have comparable AC using Mage Armor at early levels, and later on you'd rely on miss chance/mirror image anyways.


Wonderstell wrote:


Is the jump between not having and having light armor casting really that big?
I feel as if you'd have comparable AC using Mage Armor at early levels, and later on you'd rely on miss chance/mirror image anyways.

Mithril Breast Plate comes online fairly early and is a lot better than Mage Armor. This you will feel at low-mid levels. Having a solid AC is always important at any level as you cannot rely on Mirror Image being up all the time or an enemy may be able to negate it with True Sight/Blind Sight. Not to mention that Mirror Image can be dispelled.


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Inquisitor archetypes:

Exarch (Dwarf)
Power -1, Versatility -1

Instead of Bane you get the Jurist or Menacing properties, which is a straight downgrade. Oh, and you've lost Monster Lore, Detect Alignment, and can't cast chaotic spells.

Immolator (Ifrit)
Power -1, Versatility +0
Let this be a lesson for us all, that archetypes sometimes aren't written with the intention of being equal in power to the main class. Seriously, anyone who can count to two knows that Flaming is worse than Bane.
Right, and don't bother with the Fire Domain. Especially since your domain powers aren't affected by your caster level.

Keeper of Constructs
Power -1, Versatility +0

The main draw is to ignore the DR of constructs, but it's incremental and comes in rather late. I'd say it comes around the time that a normal Inquisitor can pierce most DR by stacking Bane with their magic weapon.
But if you absolutely want to demoralize constructs, one level of this archetype and the Signature Skill feat would make them run away in fear from you.

Kinslayer (Dhampir)
Power +0, Versatility +0

Edgy.
Luckily it's optional to trade out your teamwork feats, so you may not even notice you have this archetype. I figure you could make some dumb TWF touch Inquisitor in an undead-heavy campaign by taking the Searing Brand upgrade.
The Undead Sense ability is nice however, since you can automatically roll for knowledge with it.

Royal Accuser
Power -1, Versatility -1

The real trade is losing Solo Tactics and every single Teamwork Feat for Favored Enemy, but if I'm reading it right you won't even increase any bonus you have when you get another Favored Enemy.

Secret Seeker
Power -1, Versatility +0

Losing Bane for magical interrogation might have uses for an intrigue campaign, but you have those spells on your spell list already. The short duration before level 12 also makes sure you won't get much mileage out of it before your spell slots catches up.

***

=====

@Mage of the Wyrmkin

I agree that I'd much rather have armor than not, I was just surprised that the armor problem was fully responsible for the -2/-1 rating.


It's not the only reason. A large part of is it not having spell combat. Basically you get a weaker magus as the other benefits of the omdura just aren't good enough to compensate.


^I agree. Trading out Spell Combat on a Magus is just insanity. It is just that good.


The arcane exemplar gets about 40% of a maguses abilities (no arcane pool either) and a shared judgement ability which clearly isn't enough to take up the slack. It can't easily do the 'hard to kill buffer' which the base omdura does and it's not a striker like a magus. There's no obvious role for it in game, I agree with the rating.


Wonderstell wrote:
deuxhero wrote:

Arcane Exemplar

If it got at least light armor casting it would only be 0/0, though still worse than an actual Magus at pretty much everything.

Is the jump between not having and having light armor casting really that big?

I feel as if you'd have comparable AC using Mage Armor at early levels, and later on you'd rely on miss chance/mirror image anyways.

If it was something like Silksworn that made it a very good caster despite only getting 6th level spells, it would be one thing. Problem is its class features are otherwise all gish based, and a few hours of +4 AC isn't cutting it at earlier levels, so it's a gish that is ultra squishy or caster with no class features that only gets 6th level spells, comparable to Adept but without the sheer discounts that gets. If anything -0/-0 for if it got armor (which I only gave it because Omdura is far on the weak end of tier 3 already, largely outclassed by Warpriest) is overly generous.


What they should have done is given the arcane exemplar access to both the wizard list up to 6 and the bloodrager list as well while still giving it the magus list in addition to giving it explocit casting ability in medium armor. That would have made it ok.

That would make it an arcane version of the cleric/inquisitor list that the default omdura gets.


deuxhero wrote:

{. . .}

Devil Importer
Power -1, Versatility -1
Losing celestial summoning sucks, even if you're evil anyways since evil tends to fight evil a lot and likes the option. Otherwise the trades are about even overall and it would only be 0/0.
{. . .}

Devil Importer? Maybe you meant Devil Imposter?

Although it is essentially self-evident that Cheliax has plenty of Devil Importers as well, but those wouldn't use this archetype . . . .


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Pretty sure we could tell what the autocorrect was.

Anyways

Tortured Crusader Paladin
Power 0 Versatility 0
This archetype trades away group benefits for focused self benefits. More skills, more smites, Wisdom over Charisma. Allies can not benefit from auras or lay on hands.
Nothing prevents a paladin from becoming an Oradin and healing himself, and in fact this class comes with built in contingencies, making it actually better at the job as it can heal while paralyzed or unconscious, things that would kill an Oradin.

This is an amazing RP archetype that allows personal flexibility and power for the trade off of less group buffing. Strictly every trade seems fair and balanced to make the Paladin itself better for the Paladin. Notes: no divine grace and this is the only archetype to my knowledge to be written to alter the same power, as lay on hands is altered twice.


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Paladin stuff

Spoiler:

Banishing warden Paladin

Power 0 versatility -1
Trading undead away for evil outsiders is not ideal, but the aura of justice alteration is not going to come up very often with so few uses of Banishing smite. Mercy would be better kept. If in a campaign heavy into devils or demons this would be quite a lot better.

Champion of the Cascade
Power -1 Versatility -1
Moses in paladin form but without a divine bond or divine health and a lot more acrobatic as a trade off. Nifty idea poor trade offs.

Chaos Knight (Ganzi only)
Power -2 Versatility -1
Give random blessings to friends that you have no control over but only of they are under some sort of mind effect spell. This is some sort of chaos user to enforce the law with abilities that will rarely come up and you have no control over when they do. Thematically and systematically skippable.

Chosen One
Power -1 Versatility +2
As a dip Power -2 Versatility -1
Lose raw power from divine bond to gain a host of abilities that a familiar can use, including helping with lay on hands with mercies included. Due to delayed smite and divine grace, horrible dip choice.


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deuxhero wrote:
If anything -0/-0 for if it got armor (which I only gave it because Omdura is far on the weak end of tier 3 already, largely outclassed by Warpriest) is overly generous.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. The current review makes it sound like light armor is the only thing holding the archetype back.

***

some Paladin archetypes:
Holy Tactician
[Dip]
Power +0, Versatility -1

One of the easiest ways to give out a teamwork feat to allies all day long, and is definitely worth a look at for our more party focused players. Try to get some way to ignore the Flat-Footed condition (Uncanny Dodge, Defensive Strategist) so that you don't need to spend a standard action at the start of each combat.
Your new 'Smite Evil' also benefits allies at the cost of personal power, but do note that it doesn't require you to target any specific enemy. So you buff yourself and gain benefits against all evil targets you attack.
Unfortunately, the loss of a bunch of immunities, your Divine Bond, and making you more dependent on your party for damage hurts your versatility.

Knight of Coins
Power +0, Versatility +1

This archetype replaces in-combat versatility for out-of-combat versatility, mostly by messing with your Mercy class feature. But getting two more skill ranks per level and the ability to practice WBL-mancy by selling treasure for 60% instead of 50% is well worth it.

Mind Sword
Power -1, Versatility +0

The ability to make a full-attack with your melee weapon at range is pretty neat, but since you use your Charisma for attack rolls it won't stack with the bonus from Smite Evil. The number of uses you have per day doesn't scale with your level, and competes with the Touch Treatment ability.
Not worth losing all the healing Lay on Hands would have given you.

Scion of Peace / Scion of Talmandor
Power +0, Versatility +0/+2

Bonded Eagle actually replaces your Divine Bond class feature, so no starting intelligence of 6 or celestial template like a normal companion would get. But the 11th level ability is just really dumb because it doesn't actually give you a limit of uses per day. So just spam summon Avoral Agathion, making good use of its Lay on Hands and many spell-like abilities.
+2 Versatility if your GM actually allows that.

***


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Dangit, was JUST about to do the Tortured Crusader last night when you posted it! And actually it's altered thrice! Torment, Alone in the Dark and Second Chance all alter it. I might argue that it's better than vanilla for 15-point-buy games, since dumping CHA for this archetype frees up points elsewhere and makes sense from an RP perspective.

just one class this time:

Speaker for the Past
Power 0 Versatility 0

An interesting archetype that leans back towards the Oracle parent of this hybrid class. Some of the revelations add versatility, and Heroism is great to add to your spell list. You give up a familiar and the benefits of it but gain different skills (including Perception which is nice). Doesn't move the needle significantly in either direction in my opinion.

Unsworn Shaman
Power 0 Versatility +2

This is an amazing archetype in my opinion that has many supporters and detractors, mainly due to poor wording. It's not technically clear that the Unsworn Shaman qualifies for Extra Hex, but even without Extra Hex it is still quite strong and versatile. Every day being able to choose your hexes (even Witch Hexes) is amazing, and being able to have multiple Wandering Spirits eventually enhances your spell choices as well.

Witch Doctor
Power -1/0 Versatility 0

Doubles down on channeling possibilities (albeit at level-3) at level 4 and gives spontaneous Dispel Magic or Remove Curse at level 8. Decent, but you give up three hexes in order to gain these abilities. Countering Hex actually seems pretty good, but unfortunately is gained at a relatively late level (and also removes a hex).


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And the ninth druid racial archetype. All seventy-odd druids are done now.

Sky Druid (Sylph)
Power +1, Versatility 0
All about the flying. This is a definite superpower, it's not a terrible thing to specialise in. The limitation on your nature's bond isn't hard to deal with, and everything else is a trade up. You might not think being immune to wind is, but if so you must not have seen what a druid can do with control winds, which becomes available the same level as that ability.


Well feel free to add in on any archetypes I covered. I just really like that one.

More pally archetypes
Combat Healer
Power-1 Versatility -1
Much of what you would take this archetype for is now over ridden by Healera Hand conduit feat. Still with a healers satchel and minor investment, poison curing as a swift is great, but first aid (not treat wounds) as a swift is underwhelming. Any point to the archetype is now moot and what you lose is too much.

Divine Guardian
Power-1 Versatility +1
Trading weapon boosts for armour boosts is strictly half as powerful. However making a strong frontline or second rank line with bonuses that likely stack with everything is pretty decent. The numbers added may be small but the side benefits are worth it compared to guessing what mercies are best. Great for melee heavier groups.


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another 4 Paladin archetypes:
Legate
Power +1, Versatility -1
Getting free Force armor for both you and your mount with a scaling enhancement bonus from both the ability and the spell is pretty great. I'd say the archetypes gets worse at higher levels when you have the money to spend on armor and much rather have the condition removal of the Mercy ability.
Good choice if you're expecting to fight a lot of incorporeal foes at lower levels.

Shining Knight
Power +1, Versatility 0
No ACP on ride checks and your mount gains your Divine Grace bonus to all saves, while your charges doesn't provoke and can apply the panicked condition. Definitely a strong choice for any mounted build.

Sword of Valor
Power -1, Versatility 0
Always acting in the surprise round is valuable, no doubt. But it's not "big fat bonus to all your saves" valuable like Divine Grace is.
If you want this ability, I'd recommend taking a companion with the Bodyguard archetype as your Divine Bond instead.
By both taking the Lookout feat (or sharing it with a saddle), the companion would give you the ability to always act in a surprise round.

Virtuous Bravo
Power +2, Versatility -1
Imagine the Swashbuckler, but just better in every single way. That's what this archetype is. Precise Strike and Smite Evil is twice your level on every hit, which means you can actually hit harder with your dexterity build than a two-handed Paladin. And while you don't get access to the 15th or 19th level deeds, you are still a Paladin with Lay on Hands, Divine Bond, Divine Grace and a bunch of auras.
Though losing spellcasting and Mercy does make you a bit more... martial.

***


Cavall wrote:


Divine Guardian
Power-1 Versatility +1
Trading weapon boosts for armour boosts is strictly half as powerful. However making a strong frontline or second rank line with bonuses that likely stack with everything is pretty decent. The numbers added may be small but the side benefits are worth it compared to guessing what mercies are best. Great for melee heavier groups.

Sorry this should be divine DEFENDER. Words, man. The true enemy.

Divine Guardian (actual one)
Power 0 versatility 0
Losing spell casting is never good but feats are used a lot more frequently than a 4th level caster with caster level penalty. If you're looking to keep someone alive, this is a decent archetype. If that person isnt within reach at all times, skip this.


avr wrote:
Lelomenia wrote:
faq wrote:
an eagle shaman druid can use wild shape to take the form of a Medium eagle (as if applying the giant creature simple template to a Small eagle), and can use wild shape to take the form of a Huge roc (as if applying the young creature simple template to a Gargantuan roc). Abilities of the assumed form are determined by which beast shape spell the wild shape ability functions as, as determined by the eagle shaman's effective druid level.
there is that.

Ah. OK.

Eagle Shaman (revised)
Power 0, Versatility -1
A bird animal companion is really weak, so you're taking one of the domains. Nobility isn't bad or of course you can take one of those more typical for druids. The standard action summons include useful creatures at a wide variety of levels and of course they all fly. Check the FAQ to use the wild shapes at +2 level effect; they're OK if not special. The totem transformation abilities include flight, and the natural attack option uses your feet (talons) instead of hands which is useful if you want to use weapons or a shield. Workable rather than anything special overall.

IF your dm allows you the feather sub-domain (that came out after the archetype I think and is more thematic than Animal) THEN you can also develop a ridiculously good perception skill, can fly/wild shape, have an eagle animal companion and summon eagles/rocs as a standard action. In short you are an 'AIR SUPERIORITY' caster.


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strayshift wrote:
IF your dm allows you the feather sub-domain (that came out after the archetype I think and is more thematic than Animal) THEN you can also develop a ridiculously good perception skill, can fly/wild shape, have an eagle animal companion and summon eagles/rocs as a standard action. In short you are an 'AIR SUPERIORITY' caster.

Up until you meet a sky druid of level 9+ anyway (denying your enemy the sky while still using it yourself is the best air superiority), but yeah, that's feasible. The animal shamans note at least some of the subdomains though; some of them specify that they get the rage subdomain of the destruction domain. Feather came out in the APG too. It's possible that 'Animal' is supposed to include subdomains in which case this'd still be valid.


Wizard:
Cruoromancer:
Familiar: Power -0 Versatility -1
Bonded item: Power +1 Versatility -0
The 5th (and to a degree 10th) level ability is the star here. In the hands of a vetala-born, this archetype is one of the best undead controllers in the game, gaining 1.25x times the undead controlled, bigger undead creation and the ability to desecrate for almost free. Since the abilities are damage and not sacrifices, technically damage reduction helps, but no sane GM will allow that.

Spellbinder
Familiar: Power -1 Versatility -2
Bonded Item: Power -0 Versatility -1
Generally if you suddenly need more of a spell, it's not going to be the same spell you suddenly need more of all the time. To get good use out of this, it needs to be a spell that's 1: Not something you always want prepped but want a lot of when it is needed 2: Can't just be scrolled 3: Isn't needed this round (because it takes a full round action to convert) but is needed this minute (because then Fast Study would be better) 4: Is a wizard spell. This is a relatively narrow criteria that does have some candidates (protection from/resist energy) but it will be difficult to find one for every level.

Wind Listener
Familiar: Power -1 Versatility -1
Bonded Item: Power -0 Versatility -0
Being able to spontaneously cast any divination you know is a pretty good effect, especially since divination has a good number of situational spells. Not so good it outclasses a familiar's ability to break action economy (let alone its many other uses), but definitely a nice one. Also perception is a really good skill to have, though the bonus to notice abjuration auras could be great (notice things with abjuration auras) or useless (since Detect Magic and spells based on it don't require a perception roll) . The later abilities aren't that great (though not terrible enough to dock the rating) and only one thing is class level dependent so this is a good option for dips.


A cruoromancer takes the dhampir's usual problems with healing and turns them up a notch; if infernal healing isn't available or devil blood costs money they've got to ration their blood infusions very carefully. I don't know that I'd change the ratings, but they are fragile. Also, a vetala-born???

vetala-born wrote:
Ability Modifiers +2 Dex, +2 Wis, –2 Int


Since there's only 2 psychic archetypes left to look at here they are.

Esoteric Starseeker
Power +1, Versatility +2
At a cost of your normal bonus spells, two phrenic amplifications and of delaying your major amplifications 4 levels, you get to choose daily between 13 sets of bonus spells. They act like domain spells rather than a psychic's usual bonus spells, you get a separate spell slot of each level to use them with and they're prepared spells; metamagic will be quicker. At 11th you can pick and choose from 2 of those sets each day, and might find the preferred spell feat useful if you want multiple castings of some spell. Besides the obvious utility, some disciplines have poor bonus spells and good powers (e.g. enlightenment) and will enjoy this archetype greatly.

Wildepath | Magaambyan Telepath
Power 0, Versatility +1
Druid spells of your choice as your bonus spells, and your 1st and 11th level phrenic amplifications are replaced with special ones which allow you to affect plants with mind-affecting spells, and plants & animals as if they understood your language. The first is a dead loss but the second may have uses. Commune with nature in place of telepathic bond; less useful but not a dead loss. Other Magaambyan spellcaster archetypes tend to be better. Still decent due to choosing your bonus spells from the entire druid list.


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Halfway there?:
Ghost Hunter
Power 0, Versatility 0
Use in undead campaigns for free Ghost Touch and triple damage on your first strike instead of double. Not piercing DR may lead to equal or even less damage though.

Holy Gun
Power -1/-2, Versatility 0
Just dip one level into a charisma-based Gunslinger archetype so that you can actually Smite Evil.

Hunting Paladin
Power 0, Versatility 0
You delay your Smite Evil by three levels for some minor benefits related to tracking, and gain access to the Ranger Spell list. Better at higher levels.

Kraken Slayer
Power +1, Versatility 0
Obviously intended for aquatic campaigns, as it is stronger than a normal paladin for those situations where you fight aquatic or water creatures. Pretty sure you must be a Triton for this archetype from the description, though.

Martyr
Power -2, Versatility 0
A very aptly named archetype, I'll give it that. You sacrifice something of great value for the benefit of others, but what you're giving out isn't equal to what you've lost.
Increasing the aura radius is kinda good I guess, but it still won't reach your back line. Instead of losing every immunity for a 10 ft larger radius, I'd take the Community Minded trait so that your party has all the aura benefits for the first three rounds of combat no matter how you split up. Bardic Performances in place of Smite Evil would be more useful if it actually counted as that class feature for feats and abilities, since you don't get that many rounds per day.
The only good ability of this archetype is Martyr's Mercy, which allows you to use Lay on Hands on any ally within 30 ft as a Swift action (but it downgrades your own LoH to a standard).

Silver Champion
Power -1, Versatility -1
Okay, so here's the thing. Paizo is working under the assumption that the drake companion is the single most overpowered mount in existence, and guts every archetype that has access to it. But it can't take companion archetypes, it will go against orders, and it spends level 1-12 being a liability as it can't be used as a mount and is too weak to survive by itself. The majority of its life it's a NPC lizard with good saves and BAB.
But yes, level 13+ you can ride a flying drake who needs diplomacy checks to listen to you. Keep in mind that this drake replaces your Divine Bond class feature, so it doesn't gain the celestial template or all that other jazz.

Soul Sentinel
Power 0, Versatility 0
You can remove the confused condition three levels earlier than normal with Lay on Hands, and suppress stains from manifestations at level 12 (whatever that means). Immunity to hexes and curse abilities is another set of immunities, so I'm not complaining. This and Stalwart are great ways to counter a Witch.

Tempered Champion
Power +1, Versatility -1
The list of bonus feats is largely unimpressive, but gaining more uses of your weapon Divine Bond ability and the Warpriest's Sacred Weapon damage makes this archetype particularly good for TWF.

***

I realized now that every oath is basically their own archetype, so that has to be added.


avr wrote:

A cruoromancer takes the dhampir's usual problems with healing and turns them up a notch; if infernal healing isn't available or devil blood costs money they've got to ration their blood infusions very carefully. I don't know that I'd change the ratings, but they are fragile. Also, a vetala-born???

vetala-born wrote:
Ability Modifiers +2 Dex, +2 Wis, –2 Int

d20pfsrd shows them as +2 dex, +2 int, -2 wisdom. That may be an error on their part. Assuming Archives of Nethys is more accurate (likely so), replace that line with Jiang-Shi born.

As for healing, if you're going to be an undead controlled necromancer, I'm assuming you're in an evil campaign. That means you're cleric/warpriest/inquisitor/antipaladin gets spontaneous negative energy. Failing that, just get a Wand of Inflict Light Wounds.


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deuxhero wrote:
avr wrote:

A cruoromancer takes the dhampir's usual problems with healing and turns them up a notch; if infernal healing isn't available or devil blood costs money they've got to ration their blood infusions very carefully. I don't know that I'd change the ratings, but they are fragile. Also, a vetala-born???

vetala-born wrote:
Ability Modifiers +2 Dex, +2 Wis, –2 Int
d20pfsrd shows them as +2 dex, +2 int, -2 wisdom. That may be an error on their part. Assuming Archives of Nethys is more accurate (likely so), replace that line with Jiang-Shi born.

Actually, Archives has failed to update the changes to jiang-Shi and Vetala Dhampirs that came from this thread (I think they only change the rules when a book gets another reprint). So the SRD is right in this case, and even links to the designer post.

I'll just write that you should take a dhampir with an intelligence bonus for that review.

***

Edit: I'm probably gonna take just your 'Bonded Item' ratings, and make a disclaimer at the top explaining that familiars has gotten a lot of support over the years, making Arcane Bond archetypes a little less exciting. Otherwise it would look a bit out of place to only have three reviews making that distinction.


Familiars have gotten a lot of support over the years, but the thing that makes them so much better is smashing the action economy with UMD, which was in core. This was true in 3E, it's where the Lightning Warrior joke came from, it's just nobody really wanted to use them since they'd destroy your hard earned XP if killed.


Wonderstell wrote:

{. . .}

Martyr
Power -2, Versatility 0
A very aptly named archetype, I'll give it that. You sacrifice something of great value for the benefit of others, but what you're giving out isn't equal to what you've lost.
Increasing the aura radius is kinda good I guess, but it still won't reach your back line. Instead of losing every immunity for a 10 ft larger radius, I'd take the Community Minded trait so that your party has all the aura benefits for the first three rounds of combat no matter how you split up. {. . .}

Community-Minded is one of those Rahadoum anti-divine traits, so it might be hard to get on a Paladin.

Wonderstell wrote:

{. . .}

Actually, Archives has failed to update the changes to jiang-Shi and Vetala Dhampirs that came from this thread (I think they only change the rules when a book gets another reprint). So the SRD is right in this case, and even links to the designer post.

I'll just write that you should take a dhampir with an intelligence bonus for that review.
{. . .}

Notification sent. Let's see if they'll accept this as valid Errata.


* Regarding Martyr

The Widen Aura and Aura of Greater Courage spell would work great with Martyr, going from a 20ft to 40ft radius immunity to fear. Combined with Bestow Aura targeting a mid ranged character and most of the group should be inside.
Not sure how the stigma works for pre-reqs but depending on if it counts as Bardic Performance it could be at least interesting.

But yeah that's isn't a very good archetype for a player. Even with the spells it's probably -1/0.

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