Need for advice! (:


Advice


Greetings!

(i can understand english coz i play and read a lot but im not so good in writing or speaking)

Finally i have the time and a team to give Pf a shot.

I never played with pf before and im in need of some advice.
I would like to play with the Slayer class. With a character who is able to find and slay its target in 1v1 ofc with a lil planning and using some "slayer trick" to get the upper hand.

1, Dex based, twf, and weapon throw to get some SA in surprise round or some strategy, based on tumble to get more SA
From dex i can get basicly everything= tumble, Ac, dmg, attack bonus

2, Strenght based with a big two handed weapon and maybe switch hitting with a bow (are there any str build wich is beneficial for SA?

3, Maybe strenght based dual wield?

I dont know how are the different builds going to work on the board?
I would like to know wich is more effektive

(We are using the low magic optional rule from pf unchained)

Thanking you in advance for any help you can provide!


I'd go with the TWF feat (a one handed and one light weapon to minimize the penalty. Add in Weapon focus to minimize it even further). Put emphasis in DEX and STR. That's my two cents worth.


STR based is better. STR-TWF works well enough.

Here's a build using 20-point buy, for a Human:

S16+2 D14 C14 I12 W12 CH7

1. TWF, Double Slice
2. Weapon Training (Whatever weapon you want to TWF)
3. Iron Will
4. TWF Combat Style > Quick Draw
5. Accomplished Sneak Attacker
6. TWF Combat Style > ITWF, Favored Class Bonus: Trapfinding
7. Power Attack
8. Combat Trick > Improved Critical
9. Critical Focus
10. TWF Combat Style > GTWF
11. TW Rend

Meanwhile, with 2H + Bow, youare looking at something like:

1. Power Attack, Furious Focus
2. Archery Combat Style > Precise Shot
3. Quick Draw
4. Combat Trick > Point-Blank Shot
5. Deadly Aim
6. Archery Combat Style > Improved Precise Shot, Rogue Trick > Snap Shot
7. Rapid Shot
8. Trapfinding
9. Accomplished Sneak Attacker
10. Archery Combat Style > Manyshot
11. Iron Will


Thank you!
Im gona try it out the 2H +bow.
Twf looks more interesting but i dont know how often would i be able to full attack-

Dark Archive

Hunor wrote:

Thank you!

Im gona try it out the 2H +bow.
Twf looks more interesting but i dont know how often would i be able to full attack-

in general Twf isn't so good. You have to keep using full attacks, which actually makes it weaker than two handed weapons. It requires you move five feet at a time, which makes it easy to avoid. . Archery is really good though, especially with deadly aim.


KoboldKhemist wrote:
Hunor wrote:

Thank you!

Im gona try it out the 2H +bow.
Twf looks more interesting but i dont know how often would i be able to full attack-
in general Twf isn't so good. You have to keep using full attacks, which actually makes it weaker than two handed weapons. It requires you move five feet at a time, which makes it easy to avoid. . Archery is really good though, especially with deadly aim.

Thank you

Is there any way to use SA for a melee two hander in combat besides flanking?

Dark Archive

If you get feinting feats, you can feint as a move action and then strike with sneak attack. This means you will do similar damage with your weapon compared to someone with twf, but you also get sneak attack. Also, if a friend had greater feint then I believe they lose dexterity bonus against everyone for a round.


Hunor wrote:
KoboldKhemist wrote:
Hunor wrote:

Thank you!

Im gona try it out the 2H +bow.
Twf looks more interesting but i dont know how often would i be able to full attack-
in general Twf isn't so good. You have to keep using full attacks, which actually makes it weaker than two handed weapons. It requires you move five feet at a time, which makes it easy to avoid. . Archery is really good though, especially with deadly aim.

Thank you

Is there any way to use SA for a melee two hander in combat besides flanking?

Scrolls of Greater Invisibility are a good idea, and then have full ranks of UMD so you can use them.


Feinting sounds cool :D
So im gona need a lot of str, some dex, and cha for feint or bluff

So according ur advice now i got something maybe not optimal but a good conception ^^

Race: Tiefling, Demon-Spawn +2str, +2cha,
Race skill: disable device, perception
Variant tiefling abilities: +2 Cha instead of racial spell
Class: Slayer

So as ranger combat style im gona focus on bow,
use thf with power attack in meele
and if i can do fullround action i will try to go for feint for sneak attack

OR

Dirty trick wich optiionally can grant me the desired SA bonus

i think both feint and dirty trick are appealing for a tiefling ^^

and if im gona have high charisma eldricht heritage is also interesting +6 str for 3 feat

Thank you for the answers i will do the rest


Keep in mind the variant tiefling abilities are purely up to your DM allowing them or not. Some DMs are fine with them, others with only some of them (no stat boosts) so make sure your DM is fine with you taking that +2 to cha.

That aside, you got the gist of it.


Strength based two weapon fighting is powerful in PF, second only to archery. By powerful I mean does lots of damage, but tends to have lower AC. Luckily two handing requires fewer feats. Some of these can be used to hit better, harder, or add manuevers to your bad of tricks. Personally, I like the crane style feat for this build for those tough moments when an AC buff is worth more than full BAB. With 3 ranks in Acrobatics, plus this feat, you get a +4 to AC for a -2 to hit. Not always useful, but a life saver in the right circumstances.

The knife throwing build is cool, especially if you use a lot of knives with poison on them. Just draw and throw and every attack is a poison threat. This build has a bit more feat tax than two handing.

Two weapon fighting is not so good. It has many feat traps and doesn't pay off on damage per round as much as ranged or TWF builds.


Hi Hunor,

I made a slayer build a while back that might fit your needs. It is mostly a two-handed strength build, but complements that with knife throwing. It would mostly play as switch-hitter build: throw daggers when they are (relatively) far away and switch to a melee weapon (falchion in my build) when the enemy comes close. The original version was a Half-Orc, as they have a number of racial feats that combine sneak attack and cleave (the surprise follow-through feats). If you want, I can post the build.

Also, I would advice against using poison. They are rather expensive and at later levels, the DCs are too easily passed by big monsters, which make up most of the typical array of enemies. Of course, if you play a urban campaign with a lot of humanoid enemies, it might be viable.

I hope this helped!
Arcturus


MyCupRunnethOver wrote:
Strength based two weapon fighting is powerful in PF

Please note that this is a typo, it's supposed to say two-handed.

Slayer can actually do two-weapon fighting pretty good while still going STR. All TWF feats require a high DEX, but as a Slayer, you can pick up the Ranger Combat Style Slayer Talent and pick the Two-Weapon Combat feats without having to fulfill the prerequisit.


Arcturus24 wrote:

Hi Hunor,

I made a slayer build a while back that might fit your needs. It is mostly a two-handed strength build, but complements that with knife throwing. It would mostly play as switch-hitter build: throw daggers when they are (relatively) far away and switch to a melee weapon (falchion in my build) when the enemy comes close. The original version was a Half-Orc, as they have a number of racial feats that combine sneak attack and cleave (the surprise follow-through feats). If you want, I can post the build.

Also, I would advice against using poison. They are rather expensive and at later levels, the DCs are too easily passed by big monsters, which make up most of the typical array of enemies. Of course, if you play a urban campaign with a lot of humanoid enemies, it might be viable.

I hope this helped!
Arcturus

Yep i would be grateful (: im still at the beginning. But now im closer to what i would like to play with

the problem is i dont know how often would i be able to do full atack with twf since i never tried it on board :o

thats why im with the thf strenght based switch hitter with composite bow or daggers (throwing daggers need dex am i right?)

(first i was thinking on full dex dagger thrower, dual shortsword wielder slayer acrobat monkey who can sneak attack)


MyCupRunnethOver wrote:

Strength based two weapon fighting is powerful in PF, second only to archery. By powerful I mean does lots of damage, but tends to have lower AC. Luckily two handing requires fewer feats. Some of these can be used to hit better, harder, or add manuevers to your bad of tricks. Personally, I like the crane style feat for this build for those tough moments when an AC buff is worth more than full BAB. With 3 ranks in Acrobatics, plus this feat, you get a +4 to AC for a -2 to hit. Not always useful, but a life saver in the right circumstances.

The knife throwing build is cool, especially if you use a lot of knives with poison on them. Just draw and throw and every attack is a poison threat. This build has a bit more feat tax than two handing.

Two weapon fighting is not so good. It has many feat traps and doesn't pay off on damage per round as much as ranged or TWF builds.

For Ac buff i was thinking on the shield of swings yep poison is cool for a slayer


Rub-Eta wrote:
MyCupRunnethOver wrote:
Strength based two weapon fighting is powerful in PF

Please note that this is a typo, it's supposed to say two-handed.

Slayer can actually do two-weapon fighting pretty good while still going STR. All TWF feats require a high DEX, but as a Slayer, you can pick up the Ranger Combat Style Slayer Talent and pick the Two-Weapon Combat feats without having to fulfill the prerequisit. [/Q

with 18 str its +4 on the main and +2 on the off hand?

and if i can do something in the first round with a standard action feint or dirty trick maybe i can full attack on the second round where twf can shine??


Hi again Hunor,

This is the build I was talking about:

Half-Orc Slayer

1: Quick Draw
2: Ranger Combat Style (Two-Handed, Power Attack)
3: Point-Blank Shot
4: Trapfinding
5: Cleave
6: Ranger Combat Style (Furious Focus)
7: Distance Thrower
8: Weapon Training (Falchion)
9: Improved Critical (Falchion)
10: Bleeding Attack
11: Surprise Follow-Through
12: Assassinate
13: Silent Kill
14: Hunter's Surprise
15: Greater Cleave
16: Evasion
17: Improved Surprise Follow-Through
18: Opportunist
19:
20:

STR 14+2 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 10

The entries on even levels are slayer talents, those on odd levels feats. The surprise follow-through feats allow the character to use sneak attack on the extra attacks from cleave. This build also somewhat focuses on crits, mostly using a falchion (18-20 crit range) in melee and later taking improved critical to improve the range to 15-20.

I hope this build can be of help!
Arcturus


Hunor wrote:
Rub-Eta wrote:
MyCupRunnethOver wrote:
Strength based two weapon fighting is powerful in PF

Please note that this is a typo, it's supposed to say two-handed.

Slayer can actually do two-weapon fighting pretty good while still going STR. All TWF feats require a high DEX, but as a Slayer, you can pick up the Ranger Combat Style Slayer Talent and pick the Two-Weapon Combat feats without having to fulfill the prerequisit.

with 18 str its +4 on the main and +2 on the off hand?

and if i can do something in the first round with a standard action feint or dirty trick maybe i can full attack on the second round where twf can shine??

There's also the feat Double Slice that gets your off-hand full STR to damage as well. Granted, you need 15 DEX (and Two-Weapon Fighter) to pick it up (you can only pick three feats with the Ranger Combat Style Slayer Talent, those "should" be the three Two-Weapon Fighting feats), but if you can afford 15 DEX, it's really worth picking up.

About the first round's Standard action: Most people aren't in possition to make a full-attack on their first round, neither will you. The best strategy is to not run up and strike once (move + standard action), as give the enemy a full attack action on you for free. My advice it to start the first round with Studied Target (a move action) and then ready an action to attack any enemy running up to you (as long as they don't have bows, then use all your actions to run up in their face).


Rub-Eta wrote:
Hunor wrote:
Rub-Eta wrote:
MyCupRunnethOver wrote:
Strength based two weapon fighting is powerful in PF

Please note that this is a typo, it's supposed to say two-handed.

Slayer can actually do two-weapon fighting pretty good while still going STR. All TWF feats require a high DEX, but as a Slayer, you can pick up the Ranger Combat Style Slayer Talent and pick the Two-Weapon Combat feats without having to fulfill the prerequisit.

And, just in theory if a run in the targets face and use dirty trick, trip or something else with succes than i can trigger in next round twf full attack? Which is on pair with thf?

Grand Lodge

There are several ways to play a Slayer.

-Switch hitter with a Bow+2HF
-Switch Hitter Slipslinger Halfling W/ a Slingstaff (Single weapon focus) This is actually a newer option thanks to a new book that came out.
-Str TWF build
-Str Sword and Board TWF (This is actually REALLY good..best class for Sword and Board style of Play.)

I do not recommend a Dex slayer since a Slayer can skip th Dex requirements for TWF. STR to damage is natural...Dex to damage requires either Feats or Gold. STR is just so much easier to pull off.

The benifit of Switch hitter is getting more full attacks and less of a need to move. The issue with TWF is when you have to move your not going to get full attacks and that greatly reduces your damage output. 2 Handed actually is superior when movement is taken ton consideration because that 1 swing of a two handed weapon will have more power behind it than a single stab of a 1 handed weapon.

Quote:
For Ac buff i was thinking on the shield of swings yep poison is cool for a slayer

It is actually a bad feat. Pathfinder is an offensive game more than a defensive one. If you really want AC your better off going Sword and Board or taking a trait for Use magic device that will allow you to Layer your defenses. Another option is potions of Blur. But stocking up on straight AC only goes so far. It is very nice to have to stop the enemies extra attacks...but usually you will be hit by the main attack. That is where the Layered defense kick in. Blur/displacement/mirror Image offer a Miss chance to negate the attack all together. Damage reduction helps to reduce the incoming damage to a manageable Level that outside of combat you can be healed up instead of having a need for a Pocket Healer to follow you around healing you in combat.


And, just in theory if i run in the target face and use dirty trick, trip or something else with succes than i can trigger in next round twf full attack? Which is on pair with thf?

Grand Lodge

Hunor wrote:
And, just in theory if i run in the target face and use dirty trick, trip or something else with succes than i can trigger in next round twf full attack? Which is on pair with thf?

There is other ways to get TWF going. But anytime you can full attack you benefit from TWF. Doesn't matter if they are on the ground, blind, stunned, or completely fine. If you use the full attack option you benifit. The issue is keeping the enemy in 1 spot and getting the option to full attack. Status effects have no baring on Full attacks.

A tripped target can Move to get up and Move to get away still denying you full attacks. A blinded target can spend his standard action to fix the dirty trick and still move away from you. Sure he draws a AoO but it is still better than standing there for you to full attack him next turn.

Tripping if for drawing Attacks of Opportunity and keeping the enemy limited to certain actions. There are builds built around this maneuver but typically poor choice for TWF builds as they are typically feat hungry.

Dirty trick is for Blinding people to get easier Sneak attacks or controlling their actions...taking a standard action from someone reduces the incoming damage.

And no it is not on Par.

You moved in and DIrty tricked cause a Status effect and 0 damage. The THF moved in and Attacked causing Damage.

Next round you TWF for full attack and cause damage. The THF does the same...and because of the round before is probably still doing more damage than you on average. Mostly because it is SUPER rare every attack from a TWF hits. The THF hits more consistently.


Are there any situation when dirty trick or feint could be logical for a slayer switch hitter instead of simply attacking??

Right now i will focus on initiate, use a two handed weapon and a spear as a side weapon and a composite bow (str gives dmg bonus but not attack bonus if i am right) and eldricht heritage(abyssal) to increase my cool factor and maybe plan for some critical feat

ty

Grand Lodge

Quote:
Are there any situation when dirty trick or feint could be logical for a slayer switch hitter instead of simply attacking??

Dirty Trick- If your group is short on a battle field controller. This can help reduce incoming damage if you take the Quick Dirty Trick+Greater Dirty Trick. This will help reduce the resources needed to recover from a fight. But typically as a Hammer(striker) your job is to do the killing while your Anvil (Crowd Controller) lays down control.

Feinting- This doesn't do much to a enemy except allow you more sneak attacks and the need to be flanking. So this helps increase your damage against foes who are vulnerable to Sneak Attacks. But any foe you are flanking or any foe immune to Sneak attack this line of feats becomes dead in the water.

As a slayer your main job is to end the fight. And ending the fight comes from doing damage. That is the bottom line. After your able to do 1/3-1/2 the enemies HP in a single round then your free to pick up what ever feats you want to help round out your repertoire. But I would focus on damage first because that is your 1st and most important Job.


Thank you for the detailed answer ^^ as a rooky first i will focus on dmg/hit and if i still got some extra room than pick something to give some extra color


Benefit: You gain either the 3rd-level or the 9th-level power (your choice) of the bloodline you selected with the Eldritch Heritage feat. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

This is the benefit of improved eldricht heritage (what does eldricht means?) It sas that -2 level to use powers. So the str bonus provided by abyssal bloodline, (+2 str on 9th level) will be counted only 2 levels later? At 11th lvl?


Eldritch (t before the ch) - unearthly, weird, sinister, eerie, spooky, ghostly. Implications of magical.


Thank you my dictionary doesnt have this word (: or any other dictionary that i looked


Btw accidentaly couldnt u answer the main question? :D


@Hunor: With Secret Wizard's two-weapon-fighting build, everytime you only have a single attack, you simply two-hand your main weapon for higher damage; when you get the chance to full attack, you quick draw (feat) your second weapon for a full attack with two weapons.


Turgan wrote:
@Hunor: With Secret Wizard's two-weapon-fighting build, everytime you only have a single attack, you simply two-hand your main weapon for higher damage; when you get the chance to full attack, you quick draw (feat) your second weapon for a full attack with two weapons.

That is true ty ^^


Hunor wrote:
Btw accidentaly couldnt u answer the main question? :D

ive found the answer ty ^^


Hunor wrote:
Thank you my dictionary doesnt have this word (: or any other dictionary that i looked

Probably due to the misspelling.


1 studied target 1, track quick draw
2 slayer talent (rapid shot)
3 sneak attack 1d6 power attack
4 slayer talent (trap finding) +1 Wisdoms
5 2nd studied target furious focus
6 slayer talent(many shot), SA 2d6
7 stalker skill focus (planes)
8 combat trick (weapon focus) +1 strenght
9 sneak attack 3d6 eldricht heritage
10 slayer talent (hunters mark)
11 swift tracker improved eldricht heritage
12 slayer talent, SA d4 +1 strenght
13 slayers advance improved critical

so this is where im now

Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 14
Cha 15

Tiefling demon spawn and +2 cha instead of spell like abilitie (dm allowed it)

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