The Stealth section states ''If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location''. I assume that if you make your first attack while not hidden, it's not sniping, therefore you could'nt use stealth again to 'mantain your obscured location'.
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Hiding require cover or concealment. Total cover block the line of fire, concealment or partial cover don't.
So:
- you start your round stealthed or, if unobserved, you can enter stealth as part of some action or as its own action.
- unless you are behind total cover you don't need to move.
- you make your attack and, as a move action, try to enter stealth again with a -20.
Note that it is a move action, not movement, so you aren't actually changing your position, you are only trying not to spotted.
If you actually change your position and end your movement in cover or concealment, you can make your stealth check you the standard modifiers, not the -20, but your initial position is know and possibility the initial direction of your movement.
Relevant pieces of stealth:
If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth.Sniping: If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location.
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
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If you are moving, you are not sniping.
Here his how sniping works.
1. Already Hidden
2. Shoot your target (Standard Action)
3. Make new stealth check at -20 (Move Action)
You cannot use stealth after performing a Shot on the Run because using stealth after making a ranged attack is a Move Action and Shot on the Run is a Full Round Action so you don't have a Move Action to use Stealth again.
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Hiding require cover or concealment. Total cover block the line of fire, concealment or partial cover don't.
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Relevant pieces of stealth:
If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth.Sniping: If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location.
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
Where do the Stealth rules differentiate between Total Cover/Concealment and Partial Cover/Concealment? It just says that "finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth."
Sniping is pretty much never worth it because you only get to make one attack a round.
Currently there just isn't a way to have your damage be competitive with a full attack action that can keep sniping offensively relevant compared to anything else anyone at the table with you will be doing.
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Where do the Stealth rules differentiate between Total Cover/Concealment and Partial Cover/Concealment? It just says that "finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth."Hiding require cover or concealment. Total cover block the line of fire, concealment or partial cover don't.
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Relevant pieces of stealth:
If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth.Sniping: If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location.
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
And what is the meaning of that question?
Total cover bock LoE, if you don't have LoE you can't attack. It is not something that is part of the stealth rules, it is part of the combat rules.So if the sniper is behind total cover from his target he can't attack and is forced to move before attacking.
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Where do the Stealth rules differentiate between Total Cover/Concealment and Partial Cover/Concealment? It just says that "finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth."Hiding require cover or concealment. Total cover block the line of fire, concealment or partial cover don't.
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Relevant pieces of stealth:
If people are observing you using any of their senses (but typically sight), you can't use Stealth. Against most creatures, finding cover or concealment allows you to use Stealth.Sniping: If you've already successfully used Stealth at least 10 feet from your target, you can make one ranged attack and then immediately use Stealth again. You take a –20 penalty on your Stealth check to maintain your obscured location.
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Stealth check as part of movement, so it doesn't take a separate action. However, using Stealth immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.
And what is the meaning of that question?
Total cover bock LoE, if you don't have LoE you can't attack. It is not something that is part of the stealth rules, it is part of the combat rules.
So if the sniper is behind total cover from his target he can't attack and is forced to move before attacking.
My mistake. I thought you were talking about become Stealthed, not blocking your own Line of Effect.
Sniping is pretty much never worth it because you only get to make one attack a round.
Currently there just isn't a way to have your damage be competitive with a full attack action that can keep sniping offensively relevant compared to anything else anyone at the table with you will be doing.
The Master Sniper talent lets you full attack instead of just one shot by doubling the penalization.
As a requirement you need Stealthy Sniper, which halves the penalization so you'd only get -10. And -20 with Master Sniper if im not wrong.
So that's a 3rd party feat that is horrible overpowered for someone who really builds for it (very high stealth), and shouldn't be allowed. It's from Drop Dead Studios and says:
Prerequisites: Advanced Rogue Talents, Stealthy SniperBenefit: As a full-round action, a rogue with this talent may double the sniping penalty to her Stealth check to make a full attack and hide afterward, instead of only making a single attack. All her attacks gain the benefits of being hidden, not just the first.
Paizo also has released a Master Sniper feat in Dirty Tactics Toolbox though, and that could be confusing you.
Your sniping is quick enough that you can fire a small volley unnoticed.
Prerequisite(s): Expert Sniper, Rapid Shot, Stealth 6 ranks.
Benefit(s): While hiding, you can make two ranged attacks at your highest attack bonus as a full-round action and then immediately use Stealth again. You take the normal penalties on your Stealth check to remain hidden. Effects that modify sniping apply to this full-round action. These attack rolls take a –2 penalty.
Normal: You can fire only once when sniping.
That is only two attacks, though admittedly at full BAB-2. This would start to make it semi-viable to snipe, but I think you're still going to run into a lot of trouble.
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7th level Swift as Shadows Halfling with Expert Sniper and Master Sniper makes 2 attacks a full-BAB -2 then uses Stealth with no penalty, +Size bonus, +Dex bonus, +Circumstance bonus (camouflage blanket, 120g to cover all the non-planar terrain types, must be prone), +whatever other crap you can do to optimize Stealth, including Spells if you wanna go that route (Blend, Animal Aspect [Raccoon], Chameleon Stride, Cat's Grace, etc.)
As with other Stealth things, it gets better if the party is in on it together. A Ranger/Slayer, a Wizard/Sorcerer, a Cleric/Oracle and a Bard/Inquisitor/Investigator, all focused on sneaking and sniping with Stealth Synergy.
It's just so much easier and applicable overall to be a Standard Adventuring Party™ who passes some spells around when they need to sneak. Sadly.
Also, helpful tip, don't try to snipe as your first attack, because if you are initiating combat while stealthed it will most likely be a surprise round, and you cannot snipe during a surprise round because you only have a single standard or move action, and sniping requires one of each. Which means you're left out in the open until your next turn, you then need a move action to hide again if they didn't somehow spot you while you were unstealthed, and you're stuck again with a turn with only a single standard action, so you can either wait until next turn to attack again or attack and take the risk that they spot you while you are unstealthed waiting for your next turn, whereupon you face the same dilemma as the earlier turn.
Yeah, sniping is a whole mess once you try to combine it with a surprise round.
Sniping is pretty much never worth it because you only get to make one attack a round.
Currently there just isn't a way to have your damage be competitive with a full attack action that can keep sniping offensively relevant compared to anything else anyone at the table with you will be doing.
It'll work on those whose damage is scaled off single attacks. I'm reading up on the rules now for my kineticist who is getting at will invisibility in two more levels.
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Ways to make a range rogue/sniper effective;
Greater Sniper Goggles
Any means of making it so rogue can see targets, but they can't see him (greater invisibility, deeper darkness & see in darkness, fog cloud & fog sight, et cetera)
Sniping (Stealthy Sniper talent, Swift as Shadows if he's a halfling, Expert Sniper if not a halfling, Greater Sniping weapon enchantment, Master Sniper feat, high Bluff skill to create distractions to hide)
Mocking Dance + Performing Combatant + Master Combat Performer = full attack plus one or more moves per round to kite away
Basically, you want to be able to switch between full attack and sniping depending on the situation. No reason to limit yourself to sniping with one or two (Master Sniper) shots if the enemy can't attack you anyway. On the other hand, with sufficient investment you can be almost impossible to detect while sniping... at which point low damage per round doesn't matter much, because you have all the time in the world to whittle them down.
sorry, my native lenguage is spanish, i have 2 questions, if some one is cover at 30 fts and make an attack and try a new cover, have the -20 penalty?, what about at 50 or 100 fts?