The very last thing in the description for channel positive energy is "...a cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability." I would assume that this goes above and beyond being able to see the holy symbol, and that the cleric would actually be holding it up while channeling. This would mean movement, and you wouldn't be able to do this while paralized.
Here is my idea. (Character this is relevant to wields a two handed weapon) At the end of every turn, take one hand off the weapon and hold up the holy symbol. That way, wouldn't you be able to channel while paralized? Curious on other people's opinions.
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If you're really that concerned about it, you could take the Birthmark trait and have the birthmark be on your face. (Bonus points if your deity's holy symbol is vaguely circular and can therefore be centered around your eye.)
As for the "hold it up at end of turn" idea, it seems likely to work, but as TOZ points out, keeps you from threatening with your two-handed weapon.
Saying that you must be able to present it isn't the same as saying that your holy symbol must be visible.
If your holy symbol was in your robes, and you were paralyzed, would you argue that you were able to present it? No, because being paralyzed prevents you from being able to present it.
So, whether the symbol is visible or not, paralyze prevents you from presenting it, so holding it out in your hand doesn't get around that, as you aren't able to present it... it is simply visible in your immobile hand.
Oddly enough, they don't talk about verbal requirements, so this works in a Silence effect.
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A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability.
Present is a verb for channel energy. Presenting is not a purely mental action. You have to do more than just let it flop from your body.
Being paralyzed limits you to taking purely mental actions. Channel requires the physical act of presenting, so it is not possible to do while paralyzed.
Doesn't presenting a holy symbol include drawing it from your person as a move action?
If I'm correct in that assumption, I would rule further that your plan would require you to take a move action at the end of your turn to present it. Then, assuming you want to wield your weapon, you'd need to stow it as a move action because you can't wield a two handed weapon and hold a holy symbol. Unless you just wanted to drop it as a free action and pick it up as a move action at the end of each turn. You'd be taking an attack action basically every other turn if you wanted to keep the symbol on your person and never full attacking or moving if you wanted to drop it each round. I'd doubt this is a very effective use of your turn as a standard operating procedure.
I play a cleric of Besmara and until I got a buckler inscribed with my holy symbol, I was quite cognizant of balancing my rapier or dagger along with keeping a hand free for somatic casting or drawing my holy symbol.
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Doesn't presenting a holy symbol include drawing it from your person as a move action?
I've always interpreted the "presentation" as being part of the standard action to channel, in much the same way that you don't have to spend a move action to pull bat poop out of your sack before casting fireball. Thus, the most common practice I see is to have the holy symbol easily accessible on a necklace (or anyplace where a spell component pouch would be considered accessible); if you've got it tucked away in your pocket or backpack or something (like if you're incognito among the intolerant) then you would need to spend a move action to retrieve it first (just like you would if your component pouch were stored in such a place).
At least, that's always been my interpretation. I could be wrong.
Yeah. It's never been made totally clear to me so as a player, I've erred on the side of least advantage. But if you count drawing the symbol as a part of a standard action to channel, then I'd have to say channeling while paralyzed is out categorically.
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Yeah. It's never been made totally clear to me so as a player, I've erred on the side of least advantage. But if you count drawing the symbol as a part of a standard action to channel, then I'd have to say channeling while paralyzed is out categorically.
I don't see how "allowed to include the movement of the holy symbol in the main action" logically flows into "not allowed to do it this other way". "Able" does not mean "required".
Your final conclusion may well be correct, but it certainly doesn't follow from the premise. You'll need some other way to get there if you're gonna keep it.
I'm really not sure if the act of channeling is a pure mental action (assuming you have already presented your holy symbol). If it is, can you use Channel Ray while paralyzed?
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I always saw that sentence as specifically being there (even if not clearly so) to prevent channelling while unable to move (i.e. paralysed).
"allowed to include the movement of the holy symbol in the main action" logically flows into "not allowed to do it this other way"
'must be able to' seems to indicate the requirement to me...
Yeah. It's never been made totally clear to me so as a player, I've erred on the side of least advantage. But if you count drawing the symbol as a part of a standard action to channel, then I'd have to say channeling while paralyzed is out categorically.I don't see how "allowed to include the movement of the holy symbol in the main action" logically flows into "not allowed to do it this other way". "Able" does not mean "required".
Your final conclusion may well be correct, but it certainly doesn't follow from the premise. You'll need some other way to get there if you're gonna keep it.
Good point. I see how drawing a holy symbol being considered not an action as a part of the channel standard action leads to that conclusion.
It's the same as drawing an arrow is part of the standard action of firing a longbow. But outside of firing the longbow, is just taking out the arrow and holding it for future use still not an action? I don't know.
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I'm really not sure if the act of channeling is a pure mental action (assuming you have already presented your holy symbol).
That seems to be the key sticking point. Some folks think it just needs to be in a state of clear and obvious display, while others think it's only being "presented" while there's still some physical motion happening.
If it is, can you use Channel Ray while paralyzed?
Is that a feat? I can't seem to find it.
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Yeah. It's never been made totally clear to me so as a player, I've erred on the side of least advantage. But if you count drawing the symbol as a part of a standard action to channel, then I'd have to say channeling while paralyzed is out categorically.I don't see how "allowed to include the movement of the holy symbol in the main action" logically flows into "not allowed to do it this other way". "Able" does not mean "required".
Your final conclusion may well be correct, but it certainly doesn't follow from the premise. You'll need some other way to get there if you're gonna keep it.
Good point. I see how drawing a holy symbol being considered not an action as a part of the channel standard action leads to that conclusion.
It's the same as drawing an arrow is part of the standard action of firing a longbow. But outside of firing the longbow, is just taking out the arrow and holding it for future use still not an action? I don't know.
Um, drawing a piece of ammunition is a free action, regardless of whether you're in the process of firing. I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
So would a channeling character who does not need to present a holy symbol, like a Hex Channeler Witch, be able to channel while paralyzed?
I'm really not sure if the act of channeling is a pure mental action (assuming you have already presented your holy symbol).That seems to be the key sticking point. Some folks think it just needs to be in a state of clear and obvious display, while others think it's only being "presented" while there's still some physical motion happening.
If it is, can you use Channel Ray while paralyzed?Is that a feat? I can't seem to find it.
Yes. Range Tactic's Toolbox (I believe) that turns your channel energy from a burst to a ray. It does not specifically add any more physical actions, but does require a range attack role if the target is unwilling.
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I don't think channel ray works either, as you have the aim the ray as you would a weapon. If you can't move, you can't aim.
Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don't have to see the creature you're trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature at which you're aiming.
Instead of writing "draw" I should've written "load". Loading a longbow is not an action. I take that to mean it's not even a free action but something less. It's a part of the standard action of firing the longbow. Your interpretation of channeling seems to be that presenting the holy symbol is less than a free action; it's part of the standard action of channeling. That's fine.
I see what you're saying. I guess at this point my question becomes, if presenting a holy symbol is not an action when used in conjunction with channeling, would you still consider it not an action when done on its own without being a part of a channel standard action?
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Hm. I guess I'd have to ask myself what action it would take to pull bat poop out of a sack if I wasn't in the process of casting fireball. Maybe a move action?
Man, screw the Pathfinder action system. I'mma go see if there's new posts in my 5E PbP games. :/
Some people are pondering if channeling is a pure mental action besides the holy symbol part. My thought had always been that you ask your god for it, and your god does it. Wouldn't asking your god for a channel be a pure mental action if you think to yourself, "Sheyln, I could use some healing right now."?
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I houserule that you can channel while paralyzed, but RAW you seem to need to be in control of your own limbs and such in order to channel energy.
I usually say that a cleric, mine or a player's, has their holy symbol on a chain on their neck or hanging loose from a belt unless otherwise noted, and using it is just part of most of the associated actions like channeling or spellcasting...
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but RAW you seem to need to be in control of your own limbs and such in order to channel energy.
"RAW" means "rules as written", and there are no written rules saying that you "be in control of your own limbs and such in order to channel energy".
"RAW" — rules as written — says channeling requires the presentation of your holy symbol. You are then inferring that this presentation requires some sort of physical motion at the time of channeling, but it's just an inference on your part, not a rule that's written.
The idea that you "need to be in control of your own limbs and such" in order to satisfy the "present your holy symbol" requirement is not "RAW", it's your own idea.
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Anyway, to the OP: it comes down to how your table defines "presenting" your holy symbol. It's not defined in the rules, so your table is going to have to make a judgment. If it means that your holy symbol needs to get into a presented state, then you can certainly get it into that state ahead of time, and if you get paralyzed while your holy symbol is presented, then you're frozen in a state of meeting the requirements for channeling. Alternatively, if "presenting" refers to a process that has no end state (that is, you're able to present it, but not able to "finish" and say "okay, it's presented now"), then you have to be physically moving it during the channel action, and paralysis will make this impossible.
So, consult your table.
it comes down to how your table defines "presenting" your holy symbol. It's not defined in the rulesI think it's a pretty huge stretch to claim that "presenting your holy symbol" is not simply a direct reference to a "DF divine focus requirement as with spells" which there are rules for.
Uhhh. What? I mean, that is one logical interpretation, but I don't think it is even a stretch to say that those are different things.
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it comes down to how your table defines "presenting" your holy symbol. It's not defined in the rulesI think it's a pretty huge stretch to claim that "presenting your holy symbol" is not simply a direct reference to a "DF divine focus requirement as with spells" which there are rules for.
So in a system where there are spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities, with only the spells having any sort of components;
And where spell-like abilities are as close to spellcasting as abilities get, yet still explicitly don't use spell components at all;And where supernatural abilities are even less like spells than spell-like abilities (and are in fact as different from spellcasting as you can get and still be magical), and also explicitly don't use the component rules;
And where in the entire system there's this one supernatural ability that requires the use of a holy symbol, and makes no reference at all to the spellcasting rules that it's naturally so far removed from;
Your assertion is that it's completely reasonable to assume this supernatural ability mimics a mechanic that it's as different from as magically possible and doesn't reference at all, to the point that keeping them separate is "a pretty huge stretch"?
Okay.
it comes down to how your table defines "presenting" your holy symbol. It's not defined in the rulesI think it's a pretty huge stretch to claim that "presenting your holy symbol" is not simply a direct reference to a "DF divine focus requirement as with spells" which there are rules for.
Yeah it 100% has nothing to do with a Divine Focus.
Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical attacks, defenses, and qualities. These abilities can be always active or they can require a specific action to utilize. The supernatural ability's description includes information on how it is used and its effects.
Supernatural Abilities (Su): Supernatural abilities are magical but not spell-like. Supernatural abilities are not subject to spell resistance and do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated (such as an antimagic field). A supernatural ability's effect cannot be dispelled and is not subject to counterspells. See Table: Special Ability Types for a summary of the types of special abilities.
Sticking to the rules governing supernatural abilities makes a heck of a lot more sense to me than making a special exception for channel energy where the exception is not explicit.
Of course, YMMV, but making a complex rule system more complex without any kind of positive return seems silly to me.
My understanding of the rules is that you have your holy symbol presented. That means not hidden to me. If you have it around your neck visible and presented for everyone to see you fit that operation. If they have it hidden, no. This actually mattered in a PFS scenario traveling to a place where gods could not be worshiped.
Then I would rule you can channel while paralyzed.
I can understand a DM ruling otherwise.
In my opinion GM's call. In those circumstances I tend to rule in the PCs favour.