Can I "ready" a charge?


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There's a bit in the charge section that says if you are limited to a standard action on your turn you can charge but can't move double your speed, so can I ready an action to do this type of charge??


Per Charge, as a full-round action, I would say no.

Shadow Lodge

noble peasant wrote:
There's a bit in the charge section that says if you are limited to a standard action on your turn you can charge but can't move double your speed, so can I ready an action to do this type of charge??

No, you are not actually 'restricted' to a standard action for the round: Otherwise, characters could 'charge around corners' by taking a move to get properly lined up, then take a 'partial charge' because they only have a standard action left.

Technically, if you were slowed, you could ready a partial charge, but that is silly enough that I'd expect a GM to just say no.


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
noble peasant wrote:
There's a bit in the charge section that says if you are limited to a standard action on your turn you can charge but can't move double your speed, so can I ready an action to do this type of charge??

No, you are not actually 'restricted' to a standard action for the round: Otherwise, characters could 'charge around corners' by taking a move to get properly lined up, then take a 'partial charge' because they only have a standard action left.

Technically, if you were slowed, you could ready a partial charge, but that is silly enough that I'd expect a GM to just say no.

No need to nerf melee any more than it is already.

If you are slowed, by the rules, you absolutely can ready a partial charge.

Saying otherwise is a house rule.


There's a feat for that.

Grand Lodge

Avoron wrote:
There's a feat for that.

Yes, but that is for someone who is able to take a normal full action or move/standard pairing.

Partial charges can be readied, but only when you are limited to only being able to take a single action on your turn, not on a turn where you have already taken your move action so only have a standard action left.

Times when you legitimately are limited to a single action on a turn:
Surprise rounds you get to act in, barring class features that change it
When you are Staggered, but it will usually end up with you taking a swing and dropping (most times PCs are staggered is when they are at 0 hp, although a few other things give staggered as well)
When you are slowed.

Remember that you will not be able to draw a weapon on a partial charge, unless you have Quick Draw or the equivalent, as you can only draw a weapon on a normal charge when you only travel your normal single movement distance or less during the charge.


alexd1976 wrote:
Taja the Barbarian wrote:
noble peasant wrote:
There's a bit in the charge section that says if you are limited to a standard action on your turn you can charge but can't move double your speed, so can I ready an action to do this type of charge??

No, you are not actually 'restricted' to a standard action for the round: Otherwise, characters could 'charge around corners' by taking a move to get properly lined up, then take a 'partial charge' because they only have a standard action left.

Technically, if you were slowed, you could ready a partial charge, but that is silly enough that I'd expect a GM to just say no.

No need to nerf melee any more than it is already.

If you are slowed, by the rules, you absolutely can ready a partial charge.

Saying otherwise is a house rule.

Huh... So, one could conceivably still do a charge while staggered then?

Interesting...


Pathos wrote:
alexd1976 wrote:
Taja the Barbarian wrote:
noble peasant wrote:
There's a bit in the charge section that says if you are limited to a standard action on your turn you can charge but can't move double your speed, so can I ready an action to do this type of charge??

No, you are not actually 'restricted' to a standard action for the round: Otherwise, characters could 'charge around corners' by taking a move to get properly lined up, then take a 'partial charge' because they only have a standard action left.

Technically, if you were slowed, you could ready a partial charge, but that is silly enough that I'd expect a GM to just say no.

No need to nerf melee any more than it is already.

If you are slowed, by the rules, you absolutely can ready a partial charge.

Saying otherwise is a house rule.

Huh... So, one could conceivably still do a charge while staggered then?

Interesting...

Still do? No, you can't still do, because you can't regularly ready a charge without a feat. This is a weird case where you can do something while staggered than you could otherwise. You can *only* ready a charge while staggered (or with the Rhino Charge feat), not *still* do it.

Ladies and gentlemen, Pathfinder logic at its finest.


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I would allow it, because the rule of cool supersedes all other rules. Page 9 of the CMB has: "The most important rule", which is basically do whatever works at your table.


Taja the Barbarian wrote:
noble peasant wrote:
There's a bit in the charge section that says if you are limited to a standard action on your turn you can charge but can't move double your speed, so can I ready an action to do this type of charge??

No, you are not actually 'restricted' to a standard action for the round: Otherwise, characters could 'charge around corners' by taking a move to get properly lined up, then take a 'partial charge' because they only have a standard action left.

Technically, if you were slowed, you could ready a partial charge, but that is silly enough that I'd expect a GM to just say no.

You can't move twice in the same round so that won't work anyway.


I probably wouldn't allow it, but that's based on logic from the fact that charging takes a certain amount of time and shouldn't be able to interrupt shorter actions. I agree that the rules are ambiguous on this.


CampinCarl9127 wrote:
I probably wouldn't allow it, but that's based on logic from the fact that charging takes a certain amount of time and shouldn't be able to interrupt shorter actions. I agree that the rules are ambiguous on this.

Awwww... fun assassin! :P


I could see the ruling go either way though, I certainly wouldn't protest the opposite viewpoint.

It's just in my mind, if a caster started casting a spell 60 ft away and you started charging him, you shouldn't be able to close that gap and attack before he can finish his spell. The time it takes seems wonky to me. Like, they're charging 60 ft across a room, why wouldn't you be able to react to that before it happened?

The simple answer is what Pathos said. Charging is a full round action and therefore can't be used as a ready action, although the stagger and slow rules do make it confusing.


wraithstrike wrote:
Taja the Barbarian wrote:
noble peasant wrote:
There's a bit in the charge section that says if you are limited to a standard action on your turn you can charge but can't move double your speed, so can I ready an action to do this type of charge??

No, you are not actually 'restricted' to a standard action for the round: Otherwise, characters could 'charge around corners' by taking a move to get properly lined up, then take a 'partial charge' because they only have a standard action left.

Technically, if you were slowed, you could ready a partial charge, but that is silly enough that I'd expect a GM to just say no.

You can't move twice in the same round so that won't work anyway.

Got a citation on this? I can't find anything in either the movement or move action section to support your claim, whilst both sections make reference to taking two move actions to move.

As far as I can see you could, for example, use a quick runner's shirt to take a move action and then charge with your full round action.


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Bruce Lee did a demo where he runs 30 feet and then flying kicks a cop before he can draw his pistol and shoot.

A partial charge seems realistic AND Bruce Lee cool. Waaaaahhhh! Chop!

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
wraithstrike wrote:
Taja the Barbarian wrote:
noble peasant wrote:
There's a bit in the charge section that says if you are limited to a standard action on your turn you can charge but can't move double your speed, so can I ready an action to do this type of charge??

No, you are not actually 'restricted' to a standard action for the round: Otherwise, characters could 'charge around corners' by taking a move to get properly lined up, then take a 'partial charge' because they only have a standard action left.

Technically, if you were slowed, you could ready a partial charge, but that is silly enough that I'd expect a GM to just say no.

You can't move twice in the same round so that won't work anyway.

You can move twice in a round, Wraith. You can convert your standard action to a move and move a second time. You can't takea 5' step and a move, but that is a different thing.

PRD wrote:

Move

The simplest move action is moving your speed. If you take this kind of move action during your turn, you can't also take a 5-foot step.

Many nonstandard modes of movement are covered under this category, including climbing (up to one-quarter of your speed) and swimming (up to one-quarter of your speed).

No limitation about taking it twice.

Grand Lodge

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My Self wrote:
Pathos wrote:
alexd1976 wrote:
Taja the Barbarian wrote:
noble peasant wrote:
There's a bit in the charge section that says if you are limited to a standard action on your turn you can charge but can't move double your speed, so can I ready an action to do this type of charge??

No, you are not actually 'restricted' to a standard action for the round: Otherwise, characters could 'charge around corners' by taking a move to get properly lined up, then take a 'partial charge' because they only have a standard action left.

Technically, if you were slowed, you could ready a partial charge, but that is silly enough that I'd expect a GM to just say no.

No need to nerf melee any more than it is already.

If you are slowed, by the rules, you absolutely can ready a partial charge.

Saying otherwise is a house rule.

Huh... So, one could conceivably still do a charge while staggered then?

Interesting...

Still do? No, you can't still do, because you can't regularly ready a charge without a feat. This is a weird case where you can do something while staggered than you could otherwise. You can *only* ready a charge while staggered (or with the Rhino Charge feat), not *still* do it.

Ladies and gentlemen, Pathfinder logic at its finest.

Might want to check out the rules for charging wrote:
If you are able to take only a standard action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed) and you cannot draw a weapon unless you possess the Quick Draw feat. You can't use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.


I think a prepaired action might allow it. If before you go through every door your tank draws his weapon and gets ready to charge, that's before the combat round or surprise round. If you don't make that spot check, you can't charge in that surprise round.

I had a sorc. who always had out a licorice root and dagger so he could cast haste if anyone said, "ambush" or suddenly had an arrow in them.


Could one artificially limit themselves to a partial charge, even when not staggered or limited otherwise, if they just stand there and wait for the charge to trigger?


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I am surprised nobody quoted the FAQ on this question.

The answer is definitely NO.

Shadow Lodge

Taja the Barbarian wrote:
noble peasant wrote:
There's a bit in the charge section that says if you are limited to a standard action on your turn you can charge but can't move double your speed, so can I ready an action to do this type of charge??
No, you are not actually 'restricted' to a standard action for the round: Otherwise, characters could 'charge around corners' by taking a move to get properly lined up, then take a 'partial charge' because they only have a standard action left.

The issue is though, that it's unclear if "restricted" means by outside circumstances or by action economy limitations.

So, in your example, if you took a Standard Action to Ready a Charge, (giving you only a Standard Action action later on), you technically are limited to a Standard Action, and should be able to charge.

Personally, I'd allow it in cases like this just like I'd allow it as a valid action in the Surprise Round, or similar things.

You can't "charge around a corner", for a couple of reasons. One, Charging has specific rules and criteria involved, and a few of them (move directly towards target, straight, direct line, etc. . .) would mean if you moved first, then charged, that first movement would have made the Charge action later impossible in anyway that a regular full charge or Delay action would have been done better.

Secondly, you are not limited in this case, but rather choosing to act in a way that means you can not do something else later.

You also could not Ready a Charge and 5ft Step, because the 5ft Step action means you can not do any other movement in that round, (that is until your next turn).


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I would allow it for a partial charge. I could easily imagine a barbarian charging a sorcerer the moment the sorcerer opens the door. At the very least I would allow the barbarian to "restrict" himself to just a standard action for the round.


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"Devil's Advocate" wrote:


The issue is though, that it's unclear if "restricted" means by outside circumstances or by action economy limitations.

So, in your example, if you took a Standard Action to Ready a Charge, (giving you only a Standard Action action later on), you technically are limited to a Standard Action, and should be able to charge.

This is not true. From the FAQ:

"Ready: Can you ready an action to charge?

No. The rules for a charge state that you can take a charge action as a standard action if you are "restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn". Although the ready action text states that you can take a standard action, it does not meet the requirements of the text in the charge action. (See Core Rulebook pages 198 and 203)"


Blakmane wrote:
"Devil's Advocate" wrote:


The issue is though, that it's unclear if "restricted" means by outside circumstances or by action economy limitations.

So, in your example, if you took a Standard Action to Ready a Charge, (giving you only a Standard Action action later on), you technically are limited to a Standard Action, and should be able to charge.

This is not true. From the FAQ:

"Ready: Can you ready an action to charge?

No. The rules for a charge state that you can take a charge action as a standard action if you are "restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn". Although the ready action text states that you can take a standard action, it does not meet the requirements of the text in the charge action. (See Core Rulebook pages 198 and 203)"

I keep reading this, and it seems like a yes.


I do not get it.

Original post question: Can I "ready" a charge?

FAQ (posted June 2011): Can you ready an action to charge?
Answer: No.

So I do not get how, by the rules, it seems a 'yes' to you.

A willingly choice is never a restriction. A restriction is something imposed to you. If you choose to use only a Standard Action on your turn, you are not restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn, although at the end of that turn, you possibly have wasted a Move Action and a Swift.


I see the no at the beginning, but the rest seems like a yes.


Goth Guru wrote:
I see the no at the beginning, but the rest seems like a yes.

I agree. The "no" answer is not supported by the explanation given within the following sentence.


I think the official answer is you can never ready a charge, not you can while restricted. Does the FAQ explicitly say you can ready while restricted?


That's why I explained the difference between 'restriction' and 'willingly' forgo your Move Action.

Charge is a Full-Round-Action with a special case that states that you can Charge if, and only if, "you are restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn.".

So, it's your turn: you have a Standard, a Move, a Swift, and some Free actions. Can you take the special option? No, because you could only take it if you only had a Standard, and that's not the case.

Then you Ready: but Ready does not allow you to ready -You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action- a Full-Round-Action, so you can not Ready a Charge.


Technically, you could ready an action to ready an action to charge. While legally sound, I doubt a real GM would allow something so cheesy.


Here I'll reword the FAQ to flow better.

Ready: Can you ready an action to charge?
No you can't ready a charge. Yes the rules do say you can make a partial charge if you only have 1 action, but that doesn't change the fact that it doesn't work with the readied action's standard action option.


In the situation, perhaps Delay would work better. Then, if needed, you could do a regular Charge or something else. Delay and Ready both affect your initiative positioning.

Grand Lodge

Boomerang Nebula wrote:
Goth Guru wrote:
I see the no at the beginning, but the rest seems like a yes.
I agree. The "no" answer is not supported by the explanation given within the following sentence.

Actually, it is.

FAQ, broken down into discrete portions for reading comprehension:

Ready: Can you ready an action to charge?

No.
The rules for a charge state that you can take a charge action as a standard action if you are "restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn".

Although the ready action text states that you can take a standard action, it does not meet the requirements of the text in the charge action. (See Core Rulebook pages 198 and 203)

What this means:
If you can ONLY take a Standard action on your turn, not forgo the move or full round actions that you are qualified to take, you cannot use that standard to ready a charge.

If, however, you are actually restricted to only being able to take a Standard Action, whether it is only a standard, or an option, like during a Surprise Round, to take EITHER a Standard or Move action, then, and only then, can you Ready a Charge.

So, Readying an action, EVEN THOUGH READIED ACTIONS can only be a Standard, Move, OR Swift, does not qualify the Readied Action ITSELF as being restricted to only a Standard.

In other words, you can only Ready a partial charge when the only action you can take is just a Standard or Move action, not both, nor a full round action.

On a side note, yes, you cannot charge if you have taken a 5' step, or done anything that qualifies as "other movement"


Voluntarily forgoing your move action in order to ready a standard action does not satisfy the requirement "being restricted to a standard action", and thus you can't (normallly) ready a charge.

Whether or not you grok the difference, I assume you all understand that these are the rules of the game and how it fits together?

I agree that the difference between external and post fact internal restriction is a little wobbly, but if the ruling had went the other way, the game would become a fiddly, annoying ready-fest.


No, you cannot ready an action to charge.

FAQ wrote:

Ready: Can you ready an action to charge?

No. The rules for a charge state that you can take a charge action as a standard action if you are "restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn". Although the ready action text states that you can take a standard action, it does not meet the requirements of the text in the charge action. (See Core Rulebook pages 198 and 203)

FAQ

Nowhere in that FAQ does it state that you can ready a charge if you are limited to a standard action.


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Quote:
Charging is a special full-round action

And this statement is never contradicted. They are ALWAYS full round actions. You can't ready full round actions. Thus, you can't ready a charge. Straightforward as that.

The thing about doing a short charge doesn't change anything. That's still also a full round action. It just so happens that your "full round" only includes a standard action in it. But you're still taking a full round action when you charge in that scenario.


So the cinematic scene where some guy charges screaming into a room and there's noone there, cannot happen in Pathfinder?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Yes it can happen, but it's not actually a case of the 'charge' action. It's just a move action.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

noble peasant wrote:
There's a bit in the charge section that says if you are limited to a standard action on your turn you can charge but can't move double your speed, so can I ready an action to do this type of charge??

No.

Ready doesn't limit you to a Standard.

Being on a surprise round does, or being staggered.

The FAQ says No and in great detail explains why. Why? Because Ready only allows you to take a Standard, but that isn't a restriction as far as Charge is concerned.

A better way to think about it:
Charge is the only action you can take when it becomes your turn. You make take other free actions, swift actions, and immediate actions on your turn, but no more standard, move, or full round actions when taking the charge action.


So if someone tries to charge blindly, it's just a move. Got it.
In Pathfinder 2, a charge has to have a target, or it's not a charge.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Not a charge 'action', no.

Dark Archive

Hmmm... this is a tricky case. This has actually come up a few times in my campaign, especially in combats with ethereal, invisible and incorporeal creatures. I have always ruled that melee-types could ready a partial charge, because otherwise Will'o'wisps, wraiths, phase spiders et al. would be far more dangerous than their CR implies (IMO). Besides, if a high-level fighter willingly restricts himself to a single attack, I don't see why he couldn't do it -- especially if he can do so when staggered (?!?).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Keep in mind that if the fighter is being attacked by wisps/wraiths/phase spiders he can 5ft step towards the enemy when his readied action triggers. Unless the creature has 15ft reach it will not avoid the readied attack.


Well as a grey rule are over reading rules You could argue a case for it.

I would rule no, based on the fact that I do not like you getting extra options for a debuff.

Plus you can still hold until you want to charge. A touch weaker but still a good option.


Melkiador wrote:
Technically, you could ready an action to ready an action to charge. While legally sound, I doubt a real GM would allow something so cheesy.

Yeah, but if you ready an action to ready an action to charge, you lose practically all the benefits of readying an action to charge, and face all the restrictions anyways. For one, you spend a turn readying an action to ready an action. Once and only once the trigger happens do you actually ready an action to charge. This means that unless your trigger happens immediately, you're going to be waiting longer than you would otherwise be, and will have wasted actions. Secondly, the action (readying a charge) would need to be legal at the time you attempt it, otherwise it fails. Unless you set your trigger to "being staggered", you won't be able to ready a charge.

All in all, you'll probably waste your turn trying to ready an action to ready an action to charge.


The intention is probably that you can never ready a charge, since even a partial one is still combining a move action & attack. Thematically, it makes sense.

And Bruce Lee probably has the feat for it, or at least levels in brawler. :P


Paulicus wrote:

The intention is probably that you can never ready a charge, since even a partial one is still combining a move action & attack. Thematically, it makes sense.

And Bruce Lee probably has the feat for it, or at least levels in brawler. :P

The game would be simpler if a charge was a standard action and you could move up to your full normal move (instead of double).

And yes, Bruce Lee is the boss.


Hmm. This would be an interesting counter move against weapons with the Brace feature.


My Self wrote:
All in all, you'll probably waste your turn trying to ready an action to ready an action to charge.

1) Ready an action to ready an action, with a trigger of my turn ending.

2) My turn ends and triggers my readied action leaving me restricted to only a standard action to ready an action.
3) Ready an action to charge, since I am now in all ways limited to a standard action.

I'm not saying anyone should do or allow that, but it certainly works under some interpretations of the rules.


The rule has been clarified that YOU CAN NEVER READY A CHARGE. Regardless of if a charge would only take a standard action or not, you can't ready it. They have a FAQ answering this very question saying, "NO you can't ready a charge. Even though there are times when a charge is a standard action a readied action still can't hold a charge." Why are people debating this still?

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