When do you get a will save against a Projected Image with Mirror Images on it?


Rules Questions


Full disclaimer, I added this question to my previous thread and it is getting skipped. I feel that it merits it's own thread since the context is different.

If you fight a Projected Image with the actual spell Mirror Image on top of it, do you only get a save when you avoid the mirror images and land a hit on the Projected Image? or do you get a save regardless just for being near it and fighting it even though you may not have landed hits?

Thanks!


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would think you'd need to know you were interacting with the real one. So you'd likely have to either dispell it or hit through all the mirror images.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

In the case of a Projected Image that casted Mirror Image, I would say you only interact with that particular illusion when you hit the Projected Image.

You could argue that fighting in close-quarters with the illusion is interacting with it enough to get a Will save.


You need to interact with an illusion to get a will save. "Interact" is a vague term where you can expect table variance, it's basically up to the GM to determine what suffices for interaction.


Attacking it's space, which contains all the images, is interacting with it.

Note: it cannot react to your attack AT ALL. It cannot track you or your weapon. It cannot dodge. It cannot raise a shield to block. It should be fairly obvious it is not real when attacked.

More details in the other thread.

/cevah


I disagree Cevah. If the caster of the spell is concentrating on the illusion, why can't they make it react to being attacked? I agree that the attacker should still get a save, but I don't think it should be obvious as long as the caster maintains concentration on the illusion and makes it react in a convincing manner.

Edit: Ah, I believe I understand some of the confusion. In this thread he says "Projected Image" while in the other he says "Permanent Image". The two are entirely different spells with different effects.

Yes, if it was permanent image I would agree with you Cevah. It would be unrealistically difficult to program an image to respond to being attacked.


I too misread. He can make the projected image react, but not put the mirror images on it. The latter spell cannot be cast from the image.

/cevah


Quote:
If you desire, any spell you cast whose range is touch or greater can originate from the projected image instead of from you. The projected image can't cast any spells on itself except for illusion spells.

So this particular illusion spell is an exception. It actually can be made to cast Mirror Image on itself.

As to your question, I think you'll get some table variation and it's somewhat open to GM interpretation.

Personally, I would not count the Projected Image as being interacted with if a Mirror Image takes a hit for it. Now if you were to fireball the entire group of images, etc, I would count this as interaction. Basically, if you use a spell or power that should have a tangible effect on the projected image, I would count it as being interacted with.

Again, expect table variation.


Mirror image: Range Personal.

Not a valid choice for Projected Image.

/cevah


Attempting to attack is interaction regardless of the result.


I believe I can explain some of the confusion.

You cannot cast mirror image onto an image. However you can make an image look like it has had mirror image cast upon it. Now if an enemy attacks one of the "images" of your image, it is not in fact attacking a mirror image but is instead just attacking the original image.


CampinCarl9127 wrote:

I believe I can explain some of the confusion.

You cannot cast mirror image onto an image. However you can make an image look like it has had mirror image cast upon it. Now if an enemy attacks one of the "images" of your image, it is not in fact attacking a mirror image but is instead just attacking the original image.

How?

Projected Image copies you, not your mirrored images.
Programmed Image can only make a single creature.

/cevah


You can make them "connected" by making a needle-thin line of the image connect on the ground.

And we need to decide on what spell we're actually talking about.


Project Image: You ... create a quasi-real, illusory version of yourself.

You are not a multi-bodied creature connected by thin bits.

Programmed Image: This spell functions like silent image
Silent Image: This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force

Again, this create a single thing, not multiple things. To be as you say, you are not making an illusion of a creature, since no creature is that way, not sure how you create an mage of a force, and for an object, I would have a hard time allowing you to have an object look like multiple creatures.

You may have a sliver of RAW support, but I don't think it fits RAI.

A custom spell, however, sure.

/cevah


Oh it is a single thing. It appears to be two images, but is actually one image that simply connects the two "creatures" by a thin line of the image.

You could make a swarm appear, as long as they are all connected by an infinitesimally thin line between each member of the swarm.

Images are only limited by your imagination. I want to imagine up a creature that looks like two creatures connected by a thin line. Since I can imagine it, it happens.


CampinCarl9127 wrote:

Oh it is a single thing. It appears to be two images, but is actually one image that simply connects the two "creatures" by a thin line of the image.

You could make a swarm appear, as long as they are all connected by an infinitesimally thin line between each member of the swarm.

Images are only limited by your imagination. I want to imagine up a creature that looks like two creatures connected by a thin line. Since I can imagine it, it happens.

For a more practical application of infinitesimally thin lines, have the shadows be connected.


In which case the combatant would get their will save the moment he interacted as the whole effect is one illusion.

A projected image to look like a person affected by mirror image is a bit ropey though.


Silent image is either completely useless or ridiculously overpowered based on the player imagination and the GMs tolerance for bovine excrement. :P


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I would allow a Will save when attempting to attack either the Projected Image or the figments created by the Mirror Image.

Interacting with an illusion doesn't require an attack roll. If you talk with it, that should count as interaction.

The Project Image is a shadow but does not appear to have any Hit Points or AC -- none are listed in the spell. Compare that against Shadow Conjuration where HP, damage from disbelieved, and AC bonuses are all talked about.

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