Are anniversary editions in the works for any of the older APs? Or at least for the pre-Pathfinder/3.5 era APs such as Second Darkness?
Or was Rise of the Runelords a special case, for whatever reasons?
How about an Anniversary Supplement for each AP?
Unfortunately, age notwithstanding, some of the older APs sucked. Legacy of Fire comes to mind.
How about an Anniversary Supplement for each AP?
Unlikely, they'd rather move forward and make new content. The sales for part 6 of an AP is always inevitable lower than that of part 1. So the expected sales of a "part 7" book years later would also be too low to justify an extra project on top of their already busy schedule.
Unfortunately, age notwithstanding, some of the older APs sucked. Legacy of Fire comes to mind.
What was wrong with Legacy of Fire? I never got a chance to run it, but it's one of the few I've read from beginning to end and it looked cool. Of course, I've always been a fan of Arabian Nights.
LoF is extremely railroady and straightforward, offers very little room for players to veer off the expected paths, and can be extremely punishing to groups that don't do as the author intended (especially some of the traps in the City of Brass section, for example).
That said, I'm running it now and my players are liking it fine.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
We are currently in module 4 of Legacy of Fire and have had a fantastic time with it so far. I think the biggest problem people had with it stems from an unfamiliarity with Arabian mythology. Most players/GM's are immersed in the western European style of fantasy gaming with knights, dragons, etc... Middle Eastern adventures have a different flavor and you really need to exploit that in order to get the best out of the AP. Most of those in my group are pretty familiar with the music, food, customs, legends, etc... of the Middle East, so we meshed with the themes right away. I have Arabic music playing softly in the background as we play to help establish mood and we started the first game session off with a group meal at our favorite Iraqi restaurant.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
LoF is extremely railroady and straightforward, offers very little room for players to veer off the expected paths
That's kind of a complaint about most APs.
Good to know there are some tough spots in City of Brass.
Of course, if I ever do run it, I'd heavily supplement with the City of Brass Boxed Set I bought all those years ago.
Music and fine dining to compliment the AP? Sounds like a good group to be in. We're playing S&S and my GM plays piratey music, but I think it's best to skip the pirate food.
LoF is extremely railroady and straightforward, offers very little room for players to veer off the expected pathsThat's kind of a complaint about most APs.
Pretty much, hence why I don't tend to give them too much weight, but that's a lot of the biggest gripe's I've seen about it.
My group's just about to wrap up the Chapel of Vardishal in part 1, and we're having a good time thus far.
Music and fine dining to compliment the AP? Sounds like a good group to be in. We're playing S&S and my GM plays piratey music, but I think it's best to skip the pirate food.
we go with Caribbean fare ourselves, delicious!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
How about an Anniversary Supplement for each AP?The upcoming Pathfinder Adventure Path #100: A Song of Silver will have an article with new content for every one of the Adventure Paths thus far, all the way back to Rise of the Runelords.
I'm more stoked for that part then the actual adventure I think, although that's impressive in and of itself because I cannot wait for that.
Now to go find a shipping thread...
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Various Paizo staff (James Jacobs included) have repeatedly indicated that they will not do it again because doing so encourages people to wait and buy the APs bundles ...
Hah! Jokes on them as it encourages me not to buy the older APs at all.
Sort of a shame that it's off the board, though I suppose if the older APs weren't very good or popular the first time around, they'd remain a hard sell even with updated versions.
Still, I'm eye-balling Second Darkness because a couple players have expressed some interest in exploring Golarion's dark elf themes, and naturally, that's the AP to consider. Might someday pick it up on that account, but I'm less inclined than I would be if I knew an anniversary or updated version for some of these older APs were in the mix.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
How about an Anniversary Supplement for each AP?The upcoming Pathfinder Adventure Path #100: A Song of Silver will have an article with new content for every one of the Adventure Paths thus far, all the way back to Rise of the Runelords.
Are you serious? Wow, hadn't planned on getting it, but I'll have to now. That's awesome!
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Juda, That's really insulting, you didn't even mention GMs that just don't have the time to add black dragons, operas, and gunslinging bardic sorcerers blasting across the Alkali Salt Flats on rollerskates with a jet powered back pack strapped to her back..
|
Various Paizo staff (James Jacobs included) have repeatedly indicated that they will not do it again because doing so encourages people to wait and buy the APs bundles ...Hah! Jokes on them as it encourages me not to buy the older APs at all.
Sort of a shame that it's off the board, though I suppose if the older APs weren't very good or popular the first time around, they'd remain a hard sell even with updated versions.
Still, I'm eye-balling Second Darkness because a couple players have expressed some interest in exploring Golarion's dark elf themes, and naturally, that's the AP to consider. Might someday pick it up on that account, but I'm less inclined than I would be if I knew an anniversary or updated version for some of these older APs were in the mix.
It is a shame, and I do hope they would reconsider.
I've been looking to run Carrion Crown, and I greatly prefer having a print copy in front of me, rather than pdfs. Unfortunately, that one is long out-of-print/not available. I was looking for used copies, and the cheapest I found was $49 for Haunting of Harrowstone on ebay. And that's just the first book!
Most of the development work for them is already complete and "in the can". Repackaging and selling anniversary editions just makes good sense.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Every adventure path they reprint is just adding competition to the new one's being released, plus then there isn't as much incentive to subscribe.
Creative Director
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Every adventure path they reprint is just adding competition to the new one's being released, plus then there isn't as much incentive to subscribe.
Our subscritpion numbers over the past 100 some volumes of the AP line would tell us otherwise, fortunately.
|
|
Every adventure path they reprint is just adding competition to the new one's being released, plus then there isn't as much incentive to subscribe.
Yeah, I'm not sure I see that at all.
Of course, there's bound to some competition amongst APs as more and more product becomes available. That's a given, and I don't see how to avoid that other than to quit producing APs altogether. But I don't see how producing anniversary editions cuts into their subscriber base.
By and large, the customers purchasing the anniversary editions tend to be newer/casual players who, for the most part, aren't likely to become subscribers. Likewise, subscribers are subscribers because they are diehard fans and don't want to miss out on the new hotness. Anniversary editions come out years after publication, so they aren't likely to cut into the subscriber market at all. If anything, if there's enough new content, they might even constitute a second purchase for them.
I'd say this falls more into diversifying your product line to appeal to entirely separate customer bases. The comic book industry has been doing this for years, repackaging older editions and reprinting them as graphic novels. It's a pretty nice revenue stream for them and one that's not likely to cut into their monthly publications.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You can also buy the PDF, print it and put it in a binder with sleeves to allow for "double-sided" pages. That way you have the reduced PFD costs, and can still have a hard copy in front of you for reference.
Heh, I already purchased the pdf, and we have a colour printer. I could print it out and make do. That's likely what I'll end up doing.
But I'd still pay good money for a (new, not overpriced) quality printing. Even after purchasing the pdf.
|
LoF is extremely railroady and straightforward, offers very little room for players to veer off the expected pathsThat's kind of a complaint about most APs.
Good to know there are some tough spots in City of Brass.
Of course, if I ever do run it, I'd heavily supplement with the City of Brass Boxed Set I bought all those years ago.
there are no railroad aps, just shortminded gms.
my Carrion Crown campaign was a mix from Ravenloft Gran Conjunction, Carrion Crown (with add ons from legendary games and some scenarios and modules), they started a mini adventure housemade being guards at harrowstone and unleash the events for the first ap, we played Castle Ravenloft, azalin rex, house rules, house made secondary plots and characters self adventures, 1 of them becomes werewolf and 6 of them become vampires in the 5th module and just one remain human, they fight with the rival guide party, unfold anaphexia scheme, become Kendra a wizard/gunslinger, the bard act act in karkau opera to reveal one enemy, and they went wherever they want, they travel in trains, and flying ship, kill a black dragon in an epic flying encounter, they went mythic, and we played a secondary party as a villain Auren Vrood and company to face the party in the end of AP3 broken moon and more!! it was two years and half of gameplay.
so no, there are no railroad ap, just lazy gms or shortminded
Well, not everybody has a stash of mushrooms or LSD handy...
there are no railroad aps, just shortminded gms.
my Carrion Crown campaign was a mix from Ravenloft Gran Conjunction, Carrion Crown (with add ons from legendary games and some scenarios and modules), they started a mini adventure housemade being guards at harrowstone and unleash the events for the first ap, we played Castle Ravenloft, azalin rex, house rules, house made secondary plots and characters self adventures, 1 of them becomes werewolf and 6 of them become vampires in the 5th module and just one remain human, they fight with the rival guide party, unfold anaphexia scheme, become Kendra a wizard/gunslinger, the bard act act in karkau opera to reveal one enemy, and they went wherever they want, they travel in trains, and flying ship, kill a black dragon in an epic flying encounter, they went mythic, and we played a secondary party as a villain Auren Vrood and company to face the party in the end of AP3 broken moon and more!! it was two years and half of gameplay.
so no, there are no railroad ap, just lazy gms or shortminded
... or, y'know, have to work or have families and don't have time to cook up that much homebrew stuff/adjust that much excess outside material.
It's not always laziness. In fact, I'd say it's more often not laziness.
I can see tweaking the old 3.5 APs... maybe.
And as a screaming Crimson Throne fanboy, I'd love a facelifted version of it...
But.
I don't have a gaming company to worry about.
I rather doubt Paizo does anything on a whim, product-wise.
|
|
Every adventure path they reprint is just adding competition to the new one's being released, plus then there isn't as much incentive to subscribe.Yeah, I'm not sure I see that at all.
Of course, there's bound to some competition amongst APs as more and more product becomes available. That's a given, and I don't see how to avoid that other than to quit producing APs altogether. But I don't see how producing anniversary editions cuts into their subscriber base.
By and large, the customers purchasing the anniversary editions tend to be newer/casual players who, for the most part, aren't likely to become subscribers. Likewise, subscribers are subscribers because they are diehard fans and don't want to miss out on the new hotness. Anniversary editions come out years after publication, so they aren't likely to cut into the subscriber market at all. If anything, if there's enough new content, they might even constitute a second purchase for them.
I'd say this falls more into diversifying your product line to appeal to entirely separate customer bases. The comic book industry has been doing this for years, repackaging older editions and reprinting them as graphic novels. It's a pretty nice revenue stream for them and one that's not likely to cut into their monthly publications.
Reprints of old APs don't add diversity to the product line; it's literally a product they've done before.
I also don't think I'd look to comic books for inspiration. They tend to reprint stories from 20 or more years ago.. The furthest back Paizo/Pathfinder can currently go is ~7 years.
Most importantly though, I don't think Paizo has any desire to do this. Based on their past experience, with the RotRL compilation, it adds a tremendous amount of work to a staff that's already stretched thin. In fact, RotRL very nearly drove James over the edge. It may be counterintuitive, but that's bee Paizo's position on the subject for years.
-Skeld
Every adventure path they reprint is just adding competition to the new one's being released, plus then there isn't as much incentive to subscribe.Our subscritpion numbers over the past 100 some volumes of the AP line would tell us otherwise, fortunately.
Am I reading this correctly? This is a gem of a comment that (unless my linguistics roll is way off) gives insight into a shift in the answer to this question for the first time - ever (in the history of these forums).
|
|
Am I reading this correctly? This is a gem of a comment that (unless my linguistics roll is way off) gives insight into a shift in the answer to this question for the first time - ever (in the history of these forums).Every adventure path they reprint is just adding competition to the new one's being released, plus then there isn't as much incentive to subscribe.Our subscritpion numbers over the past 100 some volumes of the AP line would tell us otherwise, fortunately.
I think James may have misread Cap's comment. Otherwise what James has said is opposite of what's been said about this in the past, most notably by Vic.
Unless I've misread something as well.
-Skeld
If it consumes too much of Paizo's time and resources to create an additional "Part 7" for each or any AP, then how about a something like a "Wayfinder's Guide to the Best of (insert AP name here)"
Full of Crunchy Goodness!
None or only just one piece of fiction, collected errata, special side treks, previously unnoticed npcs, variant magic items, bizarre forks in the road, bridges to other APs or modules, and fleshed out continuing paths.
If it consumes too much of Paizo's time and resources to create an additional "Part 7" for each or any AP, then how about a something like a "Wayfinder's Guide to the Best of (insert AP name here)"
Full of Crunchy Goodness!
None or only just one piece of fiction, collected errata, special side treks, previously unnoticed npcs, variant magic items, bizarre forks in the road, bridges to other APs or modules, and fleshed out continuing paths.
How is that any less work than a "Part 7"?
The APs are great, but if people want expansions, it's going to be up to the community to provide.
So, you are saying that something like Wayfinder requires the same amount of Paizo's staff time and effort to create as one part of an AP, AND would have no input from the community?
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
Wayfinder is not made by Paizo staff, but that does not mean it doesn't require a lot of time and effort to put together (generally crammed in between work and home life and copious amounts of caffeine).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No. Runelords was a special case. Various Paizo staff (James Jacobs included) have repeatedly indicated that they will not do it again because doing so encourages people to wait and buy the APs bundles, which cuts directly into Paizo's main business model of AP monthly subscriptions.
I wonder if they make so much more money from subscriptions than from traditional book sales and individual purchases. Also, can't you just cancel and resubscribe at will, to miss part of a subscription you aren't interested in? Consider if the average table falls apart before getting past the 3rd book of a campaign, Paizo is losing out on selling the rest of that content. But if Paizo can sell an anniversary edition they can sell all of that content at once. In the anniversary model Paizo gets their money whether someone's table gets to that part of the books or not.
|
Creative Director
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I believe that James missed the 're' in front of 'print' in captain yesterday's post, and did not realize the comment was talking about AP compilations reducing subscriptions.I had the same thought.
-Skeld
Ah; yeah, I did indeed misread his post.
In fairness, I could've worded it better, but I was in a hurry. :-)
And for the record I've only been a subscriber since August.
That's where I question the subscription model. Because I used to subscribe to the Companion line, but then I got a couple in a row that I just didn't care about, like Giant Hunter. But then there are others I really want to get, like summoner's handbook and dirty tactics.
I just can't understand why anyone who isn't currently DMing an AP would want to subscribe to the AP line though. Maybe it's just a difference in personality, but I don't feel like my leanings are unusual. Personally, I have witnessed DMs subscribe to an AP when they start DMing and then cancel the subscription when it gets too far ahead of the campaign.
|
Contributor
|
I've been "subscribed" to the APs since the start, first at a local game store and more recently here*. I like reading the APs and plan to run most of them someday.
Plus, I have print copies of Stolen Lands, Edge of Anarchy, The Haunting of Harrowstone, and many other hard-to-find AP segments.
I also have a complete print set* of Player Companions, via similar means. (I had to track down a few of those after the fact, though. I was lucky enough to get Cheliax: Empire of Devils here during a Non-Mint sale.)
*(Technically, my collections are missing a few recent issues due to money issues. All stuff that's still readily available, though.)
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I subscribe because I like the additional rules & resources published with each AP volume, even though I am not DMing any of them at present.
If I decide to run it in the future after the print run is finished I will have to either rely on PDFs or track down hard copies at greater cost than the subscription.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I do have every AP since Kingmaker (except Giantslayer), they're more than just adventures, there's monsters, articles about gods and death traps, countless gazetteers and short stories, all of which I use or read (My wife actually reads the fiction, which she absolutely loves) so for us at least, the adventure paths are a better investment of resources.
If I decide to run it in the future after the print run is finished I will have to either rely on PDFs or track down hard copies at greater cost than the subscription.
Maybe, though if so many people actually are subscribing and getting both book and pdf, then it should be pretty easy to find someone online to buy the print from for much cheaper than the original list price.
Sorry I deleted my last post, it was more soapboxey and scattershot for my brain to leave up:-D
If I decide to run it in the future after the print run is finished I will have to either rely on PDFs or track down hard copies at greater cost than the subscription.Maybe, though if so many people actually are subscribing and getting both book and pdf, then it should be pretty easy to find someone online to buy the print from for much cheaper than the original list price.
Have you looked on EBay and Amazon recently, good luck!
Have you looked on EBay and Amazon recently, good luck!
I just randomly picked one:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1601253613/ref=tmm_other_meta_bindin g_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=&sr=