Advice - Marksman Paladin


Advice


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Hello everyone. I am looking for any good point to improve my character. I'd like to be the "DPR rockstar" among my companions. This is my first character what i made. I already looked in all known guides: Bodhi's, Cryptic's, Deadeye's Servant, Thallin's, ...

My companions are Cleric and Fighter.

Fighter's primare role is to beat weak creatures and to keep away strong ones from us. He is using two kukries (using weapon finesse feat) or one kukri with a heavy shield. He can have around 28-30 AC. So he is primary a damage dealer and secondary a "tank".

Cleric usually tries to save(like cure *** wounds etc.) our asses. If he isn't, he often uses Divine Power spell to kick out our enemies. He has Impaler of Thorns to do this job well. He is primary a "nuker" and secondary a healer(support). Both players have level 8 characters.

And finally I usually cast Bless and/or Bless Weapon(on fighter) before encounter. Sources of these spells are wands. When a situation requires, I smithing and using weapon bond, lay on hands class ability, Divine Favor(one reason of Fate's Favored trait) spell which I prepare 3 per day. I cast Wand of Cure Light Wounds to fulfill our hitpoints after combat part. So I try to beat evil creatures as soon as posible.

My character

Name: Dranko
Alignment: Lawful good
Race: Human
Hit Dice: 8
Class: Level 8 Paladin

Point to buy attributes: 15
Attributes:
Attribut | stat | bonus | point to buy
Strength | 12 | +1 | 2
Dexterity | 16 | +5 | 10
Constitution | 8 | -1 | -2
Inteligence | 10 | +0 | 1
Wisdom | 8 | -1 | -2
Charisma | 15 | +4 | 7

2+10-2+0-2+7=15


[Statistics]

(with bonus from items, race, lvl points):

[Strenght] | 14 | +2 (Belt of Giant Strength +2)
[Dexterity] | 20 | +5 (Snakeskin Tunic (Dex +2), race)
[Constitution] | 8 | -1
[Inteligence] | 13 | +1 (Ring of Vast Intelligence +2, lvl point)
[Wisdom] | 8 | -1
[Charisma] | 18 | +4 (Headband of alluring charisma +2, lvl point)

[Feats]


  • [1] Point-Blank Shot (Bonus Human Feat)
  • [1] Deadly Aim
  • [3] Precise shot
  • [5] Rapid Shot
  • [7] Manyshot

[Saves]
Save | Base | mod | misc. | total
Fortitute | 6 | -1 | 5 | 10
Reflex | 2 | 5 | 5 | 12
Will | 6 | -1 | 5 | 10

[Archetypes]

  • Oath of Vengeance

[Traits]

  • Magical Knack - +2 caster level to one spellcasting class up to your HD.
  • Fate's Favored - Whenever you are under the effect of a luck bonus of any kind, that bonus increases by 1.

[Items]

  • Snakeskin Tunic
  • Efficient Quiver
  • Belt of giant strength +2
  • Headband of Alluring Charisma +2
  • Composite Bow +2 (+1magic)
  • Ring of Vast Intelligence +2
  • Cloak of resistance +1
  • Boots of Levitate
Its cost is about 30 000 golds together. I gather items this during 8 level progressing.

[Skills]

  • Perception, Diplomacy, Use Magical Device [8 points]
  • Acrobatics [5 points]
  • Spellcraft, Sense Motive, Ride, Knowledge(religion, nobility, planes, nature, arcana), Heal, Handle Animal, Disable Device [1 point]

[What is my idea]
My idea is after ding 9 level, get feat Unsanctioned Knowledge. Problem is that I am very hesitant... I cant decide what should I pick. Here is the list of my ideas...

Unseen Servant/Expeditious Retreat
Heroism
Haste/Channel Vigor
Greater invisibility/Echolocation/Stoneskin/Divine Power

I looked for long duration buffs, that improve my combat skills or spells that complete our shortcomings.

Next plan is to get some useful feats like Clustered Shot[11], Weapon Focus[13]. After that maybe Shatter Defenses[15] + Dazzling Display[17], Steadfast Personality[15](Self Delusion [17]).

Sadly, we usualy don't get a lot of money. So I write my item wish list....

-better enchants for composite longbow,
-Pearl of Power to extend first(or higher) level slot,
-Mithtil breastplate +2 or more,
-Bracers of Archery,
-Headband of Mental Superiority to save some item slots,
-lot of scrolls to keep situational divine spells (for instance Endure Elements, Undetectable Alignment, Zone of Truth, etc...)

[Questions]
Is there any way to improve my combat skills more?
What spells should I pick?

If you have any point, plese put it down. :]

[Vocabulary]
DPR - damage per round
rockstar - the best person
lvl - level

PS: I'm very sorry for mistakes(grama) what I did. So please tell me if I'm wrong. I will be very happy with that :)


You are seriously missing out on some strong build options here if you pass up Divine Hunter. In exchange for Aura of Courage, heavy armor, and Aura of Justice, you get Precise Shot for free at first level, and eventually can grant feats like deadly aim to all your allies (including yourself if you don't have it.)

The Variant Multiclassing (fighter) profession complements you nicely, since you lost Aura of Courage, Bravery isn't a waste (kinda), then Armor Training 2, and Weapon Training 2 can really improve both your offenses and defenses.

Since you are an archer, DEX based building means you will benefit from higher DEX bonus to max AC. You have access to mix Gloves of Dueling with Greater Bracers of Archery, and depending on your DM you could theoretically take the Weapon Focus and Specialization feats to vamp up your DPR.

Scarab Sages

For an archer paladin, I love the Tempered Champion in the Weapon Master's Handbook. You trade spell casting for bonus fighter feats and warpriest sacred weapon damage, and you alter divine bond to only allow weapons and to get extra uses by expending lay on hands.

It's a fantastic trade for a feat starved archer, even with the loss of spells.


Someone said wrote:
You are seriously missing out on some strong build options here if you pass up Divine Hunter. In exchange for Aura of Courage, heavy armor, and Aura of Justice, you get Precise Shot for free at first level, and eventually can grant feats like deadly aim to all your allies (including yourself if you don't have it.)

If you are a human you really don't need extra feat from Divine Hunter especially, when you lose almost all immunities you have(immunity to fear and charm) for it. I know you have high saving throws, but it cannot be 100% sure that you will succeed.

Generally speaking, DH have only Precise Shot,Aura of Care (Su)(almost Improved Precise Shot), Hunter’s Blessing (Su)(Oath of vengence have much better Su(Powerful Justice) then DH.)... for what? Only for feat saving. You have everything what archer needs (Point-Blank Shot, Deadly Aim, Precise shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot).

I pay attention to your companions, when I compared. They don't benefit from Hunter’s Blessing, if they fight with meele weapons...

Someone said wrote:
Since you are an archer, DEX based building means you will benefit from higher DEX bonus to max AC. You have access to mix Gloves of Dueling with Greater Bracers of Archery, and depending on your DM you could theoretically take the Weapon Focus and Specialization feats to vamp up your DPR.

Fighter 5 is a fantastic way... Bonus feats and +3/+3 for weapon traning(gloves of dueling)

It can be useful for you, pick Dangerously Curious trait and use wands for more versatility or buff party or self. See threads
(1)
(2)
(3)


master_marshmallow wrote:

You are seriously missing out on some strong build options here if you pass up Divine Hunter. In exchange for Aura of Courage, heavy armor, and Aura of Justice, you get Precise Shot for free at first level, and eventually can grant feats like deadly aim to all your allies (including yourself if you don't have it.)

Divine hunter is a garbage trap archetype. Aura of courage and justice are excellent abilities


Kondran said wrote:

My idea is after ding 9 level, get feat Unsanctioned Knowledge. Problem is that I am very hesitant... I cant decide what should I pick. Here is the list of my ideas...

Unseen Servant/Expeditious Retreat
Heroism
Haste/Channel Vigor
Greater invisibility/Echolocation/Stoneskin/Divine Power

Haste/Channel Vigor - is awful, you have already Blessing of Fervor as a Oath of Vengeance Paladin

Unsanctioned Knowledge:
I very enjoy using these spells:

1 - Vanish, True Strike, Keep Watch, Embrace Destiny, Shield of Faith, Identify, Charm Person, Grease, Saving Finale, Acute Senses
2 - Silence, Heroism, Mirror Image, Tongues , Tactical Acumen, Perceive Cues, Glitterdust
3 - Countless Eyes, Heroism, Terrible Remorse, Seek Thoughts, Bestow Insight, Confusion, Good Hope, Slow
4 - Freedom of Movement, Spell Immunity, Dimension Door, Hold Monster

Just pick everything you want....


Imbicatus said wrote:

For an archer paladin, I love the Tempered Champion in the Weapon Master's Handbook. You trade spell casting for bonus fighter feats and warpriest sacred weapon damage, and you alter divine bond to only allow weapons and to get extra uses by expending lay on hands.

It's a fantastic trade for a feat starved archer, even with the loss of spells.

Blessing of warpriest(Tempered Champion)- only one symbiosis with Paladin.

Destructive Attacks (minor): At 1st level, you can touch an ally and bless it with the power of destruction. For 1 minute, the ally gains a morale bonus on weapon damage rolls equal to half your level (minimum 1).

Could be good, but not enought good as you have such spells like Divine favor +3/+3, Blessing of Fervor - one extra attack, Resist Energy etc.


CWheezy wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

You are seriously missing out on some strong build options here if you pass up Divine Hunter. In exchange for Aura of Courage, heavy armor, and Aura of Justice, you get Precise Shot for free at first level, and eventually can grant feats like deadly aim to all your allies (including yourself if you don't have it.)

Divine hunter is a garbage trap archetype. Aura of courage and justice are excellent abilities

I disagree. Yes, those are good abilities you give up, but archer paladins need precise shot to not be significantly handicapped, and without DH, you have to either be Human, dip fighter, or wait until level 3 to get it.

Scarab Sages

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
CWheezy wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

You are seriously missing out on some strong build options here if you pass up Divine Hunter. In exchange for Aura of Courage, heavy armor, and Aura of Justice, you get Precise Shot for free at first level, and eventually can grant feats like deadly aim to all your allies (including yourself if you don't have it.)

Divine hunter is a garbage trap archetype. Aura of courage and justice are excellent abilities
I disagree. Yes, those are good abilities you give up, but archer paladins need precise shot to not be significantly handicapped, and without DH, you have to either be Human, dip fighter, or wait until level 3 to get it.

And any of those options are better than giving up the ability to have your entire team smite evil. It's not like you can't switch hit before you have precise shot. .

Scarab Sages

Thomas E. wrote:


Imbicatus said wrote:

For an archer paladin, I love the Tempered Champion in the Weapon Master's Handbook. You trade spell casting for bonus fighter feats and warpriest sacred weapon damage, and you alter divine bond to only allow weapons and to get extra uses by expending lay on hands.

It's a fantastic trade for a feat starved archer, even with the loss of spells.

Blessing of warpriest(Tempered Champion)- only one symbiosis with Paladin.

Destructive Attacks (minor): At 1st level, you can touch an ally and bless it with the power of destruction. For 1 minute, the ally gains a morale bonus on weapon damage rolls equal to half your level (minimum 1).

Could be good, but not enought good as you have such spells like Divine favor +3/+3, Blessing of Fervor - one extra attack, Resist Energy etc.

Tempered Champion doesn't gain warpriest blessings.

TEMPERED CHAMPION (PALADIN ARCHETYPE):

Tempered champions are trained in the Tempering Hall
in Absalom to master their deities’ favored weapons.

Divine Weapon Specialization (Ex): At 4th level and every
4 levels thereafter, a tempered champion gains a bonus
feat from the following list: Disruptive, Divine Fighting
Technique (see page 10), Greater Penetrating Strike,
Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization,
Penetrating Strike, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization,
and Weapon Trick (see page 8). If a feat requires choosing
a weapon or weapon group, the tempered champion must
choose her deity’s favored weapon, or its group. The
tempered champion must meet the feat’s prerequisites,
but treats her tempered champion levels as fighter levels
for this purpose.
In addition, the 4th-level tempered champion gains the
increased base weapon damage of the warpriest’s sacred
weapon ability at her tempered champion level. This
ability replaces spellcasting.

Divine Bond (Su): At 5th level, a tempered champion must
select a weapon for her divine bond. If she is out of daily uses,
she can expend a use of lay on hands to activate this ability.

The do gain several bonus feats that can be used for Weapon Specialization or weapon tricks, and they can gain extra uses of Divine Bond to enhance their weapons.

It's not spellcasting, but it's going to be far more available than spellcasting.


Divine Hunter is absolutely a trap. It is great at level 1, but down the road you really are doing your party a disservice. My first PFS character is an archer paladin that started as a divine hunter but retrained to ditch the archetype at level 4.

That being said, almost all of my level 1 PFS characters start as a Divine Hunter and then rebuild to whatever class they're going to be at level 2.


Divine Hunter is a decent archetype if you have many allies who rely on ranged attacks, but this is not the case

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