WotR: Ally question about hand size.


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


I have an ally...
(that I cant name because I dont have the game here, its a woman from WotR AP6)
...that allowed you to name your hand size at the end of the turn before you reset your hand.

My question is does this named hand size apply for that turn only or for the rest of the game?

Wakrob

Adventure Card Game Designer

Good question. We will discuss and get back to you.


Hi Mike,

I would add a request for obvious confirmation (I know it's stupid but it's just to avoid debates): anytime the words "hand size" is used in the rules or on a card, this refers to the figure next to last box crossed on you character sheet, never to the number of cards you have in your hand at that time. True ?

Adventure Card Game Designer

Hand size is the number of cards you must have in your hand at the end of resetting your hand.


Mike Selinker wrote:
Hand size is the number of cards you must have in your hand at the end of resetting your hand.

Hum, if I may dear o-godly-master, since :

rulebook P14 wrote:


Then, if you have more cards in your hand than your hand size specifies, you must discard until the number of cards in your hand matches your hand size. Finally, if you have fewer cards than your hand size, you must draw cards until the number of cards in your hand matches your hand size.

Your answer seems to me like a case of chicken and egg definition since somehow the rules say "The number of cards you must have in your hand at the end of resetting your hand is your hand size".

If I may. :-)

This said, OK I'll take my math teacher's hat and say:

Theoreme of Frencois' hand wrote:
"hand size" is a characteristic of a character (I love English) that has as initial value at the start of the scenario the value printed on the character's sheet (under power feats) and that may evolve during the scenario if specific powers explicitely affect it. Otherwise, drawing or playing a card doesn't affect your hand size.
Lemme of Not-this-Mike wrote:
This said, little guy from France, hand size remains the number of cards you must have in your hand at the end of resetting your hand!!!

:-)


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Hand Size is a numerical attribute just like your Strength bonus or the number of Blessings you can have in your deck after rebuilding. The number of cards that must be in your hand after resetting is based on the Hand Size numerical attribute, not the other way around. Therefore, changing that attribute changes how many cards you get after resetting.

In math terms:
Hand size = independent variable
Number of cards in hand after resetting = dependent variable (tied to hand size)

Grand Lodge

6. It's always 6.

Unless it's Tuesday; then it's 5.

However on every other Thursday, starting the week after Thanksgiving, it's 7.

Silver Crusade

Theryon Stormrune wrote:

6. It's always 6.

Unless it's Tuesday; then it's 5.

However on every other Thursday, starting the week after Thanksgiving, it's 7.

Aw, are we making poor Frencois track American holidays now too?

Pathfinder ACG Developer

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I'm sorry, handsize is 42 today. The meaning of life the universe and everything is that your character just died.

Sovereign Court

Eliandra Giltessan wrote:
Theryon Stormrune wrote:

6. It's always 6.

Unless it's Tuesday; then it's 5.

However on every other Thursday, starting the week after Thanksgiving, it's 7.

Aw, are we making poor Frencois track American holidays now too?

Nope, worse. Canadian Thanksgiving. The American part comes in from the rule Theryon forgot, it's 4 on American Independence Day.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Keith Richmond wrote:

I'm sorry, handsize is 42 today. The meaning of life the universe and everything is that your character just died.

That's ok, I'll just avoid resetting my hand today and everything will be fine. I'm playing Lem after all, so I'll just choose Armor as my Favored Card Type.


Guys, you all just made my day. Thanks a lot for the big smile/laugh. We need some in Paris these days.


Andrew L Klein wrote:
it's 4 on American Independence Day.

I would have thought your entire deck was your hand size (MURICA!) and you may draw an Eagle from the box.

Sovereign Court

No that's Presidents' Day. On Flag Day, you automatically succeed any check during which you wave the American flag while singing the Team America theme song.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Wakrob wrote:

I have an ally...

(that I cant name because I dont have the game here, its a woman from WotR AP6)
...that allowed you to name your hand size at the end of the turn before you reset your hand.

My question is does this named hand size apply for that turn only or for the rest of the game?

Wakrob

Just till the end of the turn.

Added to FAQ.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Wakrob wrote:

I have an ally...

(that I cant name because I dont have the game here, its a woman from WotR AP6)
...that allowed you to name your hand size at the end of the turn before you reset your hand.

My question is does this named hand size apply for that turn only or for the rest of the game?

Wakrob

Just till the end of the turn.

Added to FAQ.

I am sorry Vic, but don't you mean "for the rest of the turn"?

"When you reset your hand at the end of the turn, choose any number; treat your hand size as that number FOR THE REST of the turn, then bury this card."

I mean the END OF THE TURN is a certain step in the turn sequence that has already happened when one can choose the number. If this power now counts as one's hand size until the end of the turn, will it end at the next player's turn, or the same player's next turn...

EDIT: Actually I got the idea that something was off since I read Ostog: The Unslain's power just the other day. They seem to be meant working similarly.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Michael Klaus wrote:

I am sorry Vic, but don't you mean "for the rest of the turn"?

"When you reset your hand at the end of the turn, choose any number; treat your hand size as that number FOR THE REST of the turn, then bury this card."

I mean the END OF THE TURN is a certain step in the turn sequence that has already happened when one can choose the number. If this power now counts as one's hand size until the end of the turn, will it end at the next player's turn, or the same player's next turn...

EDIT: Actually I got the idea that something was off since I read Ostog: The Unslain's power just the other day. They seem to be meant working similarly.

No, it is correct as-is. The wording says "until the end of your turn", not "at the end of your turn". The former lasts until your turn actually ends (which is immediately after you reset your hand at the end of your turn). The latter happens at the beginning of the End Your Turn step. The power therefore only lasts for the remainder of the current turn, which would include the bit where you reset your hand at the end of your turn. I can see the FAQ being updated to shore up the wording and remove that confusion, but it isn't strictly necessary.


I might be completely mistaken, but I think that not only "at the end of the/your turn" powers but also "until the end of the/your turn" powers were supposed to apply before you reset your hand.
I think something came up during S&S but I can only think of Potion of Heroism d6 kind of thing right now and I don't think that anybody would have to make a roll while resetting her hand.

Well it would still be odd that the power schould last past resetting your hand but you would have to banish the potion before at another point. And then there was a similar spell. Maybe we just came to the conclusion that obviously the "until the end of the turn" part ended when the "at the end of your turn" part triggered.

Let me just tell you that the differentiation between two ends of turn, would not be advised from a non native speaker.


skizzerz wrote:
That's ok, I'll just avoid resetting my hand today and everything will be fine. I'm playing Lem after all, so I'll just choose Armor as my Favored Card Type.

Choose Cohort! Choose Cohort! Prevent everyone from starting the game by being unable to draw an opening hand!


zeroth_hour2 wrote:
skizzerz wrote:
That's ok, I'll just avoid resetting my hand today and everything will be fine. I'm playing Lem after all, so I'll just choose Armor as my Favored Card Type.
Choose Cohort! Choose Cohort! Prevent everyone from starting the game by being unable to draw an opening hand!

:) so don't the rules state that if you could choose, you had to choose a type of boon? Cohorts are support cards, aren't they?


WotR Rulebook p7 wrote:
Draw Starting Hands. Each character card includes a hand size for that character. Draw that number of cards from your character deck. The character card also lists a favored card type; if more than one is listed, choose 1 type before drawing. If you didn’t draw at least 1 card of that type, discard that hand and draw again, repeating as needed until your hand contains at least 1 card of the specified type.

Looks like it just says "type." Which means Lem could have been ruining RotR all this time by just saying "barrier" or something.


The funny thing is that this question (normally phrased as "Can Lem choose Loot?") has been asked multiple times without an answer from Paizo, if my searching didn't fail me. And if it did, well, nothing new there. :)

(Personally, I don't think you should be able to choose Loot as a type for Favored Card Type; they should be considered their actual type. But whatever.)


Lem and loot.

I guess it is ok to start letting this secret out.


Ah well, at least I tried searching. :)

Thanks.

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