Negative boons for eidolons


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Sovereign Court

I recently played a scenario which granted a permanent negative boon for failing a saving throw. My eidolon failed. The GM asked me to post here to find out if the negative boon actually stays with the eidolon.

I believe that an eidolon shouldn't be able to receive a negative boon because an eidolon shouldn't be able to receive a positive boon. There is too much room for abuse by effectively doubling some of the best boons. That is just my opinion, of course.

Please point me to any official rulings that you know of.

Thanks!

Silver Crusade

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Put in a spoiler (spoiler) the name of the scenario (/spoiler) that way the people in charge can know what specifically you are talking about. just replace the () with [].

5/5 ⦵⦵⦵

Since they don't get positive boons I don't see why they would get most negative boons.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My initial impression, is the negative would stay with them. But I need more info.

Silver Crusade 5/5

No idea how official it was, but I've got a couple of positive boons on my animal companion (given the GM was the local VC at the time nobody has called me on them).

This happened a couple of years back, mind.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Xellrael wrote:

I recently played a scenario which granted a permanent negative boon for failing a saving throw. My eidolon failed. The GM asked me to post here to find out if the negative boon actually stays with the eidolon.

I believe that an eidolon shouldn't be able to receive a negative boon because an eidolon shouldn't be able to receive a positive boon. There is too much room for abuse by effectively doubling some of the best boons. That is just my opinion, of course.

Please point me to any official rulings that you know of.

Thanks!

It's not the eidolon that's receiving a boon.. It's the Summoner who's been inflicted with a permanent modification on one of his class features. And yes, that's legit.

Silver Crusade 5/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Korolan

The most recent scenario that I can think of with a Negative Boon is

Spoiler:
7-04 The Ironbound Schism.

The specific thing is pretty nasty too.

Spoiler:
Curse of Belimarius: You have triggered one of the defensive wards left by a powerful Thassilonian
wizard—possibly the runelord of envy, Belimarius herself. You gain spell resistance equal to 5 plus your
Hit Dice, though this applies only against harmless spells. Unlike typical spell resistance, you cannot
voluntarily lower the spell resistance from this curse. Only limited wish, wish, or miracle can remove the
curse, which allows you to cross it off your Chronicle sheet. For the purpose of this curse, you may
instead pay 8 Prestige Points to secure a limited wish to remove the effect.

You -could- pay the prestige to get it removed?

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If that's the curse, I'd say it follows the Eidolon.

Grand Lodge 4/5

The eidolon would not get the boon, but would get the effect, which could only be removed by means that would normally remove that effect (as in the spoiler). edit: Also what LazarX said.

Sovereign Court

LazarX wrote:
It's not the eidolon that's receiving a boon.. It's the Summoner who's been inflicted with a permanent modification on one of his class features. And yes, that's legit.

Thank you all (especially LazarX) very much for the clarification.

I assume that the eidolon could then also receive positive effects. For example:

Spoiler:
An eidolon eating a sigil wafer in 4-10 Feast of Sigils would gain +2 to one stat for a year.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

No he would not.

Silver Crusade 5/5 ⦵⦵⦵ RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8 aka GreySector

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IMO if an eidolon can receive negative chronicle boons, then it should be able to receive positive chronicle boons, and vice versa.

My personal opinion is that since eidolons don't receive chronicle sheets they also cannot receive positive or negative chronicle boons.

Silver Crusade

Michael Eshleman wrote:
IMO if an eidolon can receive negative chronicle boons, then it should be able to receive positive chronicle boons, and vice versa.

+1

Michael Eshleman wrote:
My personal opinion is that since eidolons don't receive chronicle sheets they also cannot receive positive or negative chronicle boons.

+1

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Michael Eshleman wrote:

IMO if an eidolon can receive negative chronicle boons, then it should be able to receive positive chronicle boons, and vice versa.

My personal opinion is that since eidolons don't receive chronicle sheets they also cannot receive positive or negative chronicle boons.

Agreed.

The boons on chronicle sheets normally refer to the PC ('you').


I think any GM saying they can not get beneficial boons only negative ones is being completely adversarial.

Despite Mr. Christian's double negative saying he would get the sigil boon, I believe his intent that the eidolon would not. I am very curious to see why he would rule this way. Because I find it pretty indefensible.

If I had the choice I would allow them to get both and just mark it on the chronicle.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

Michael Eshleman wrote:

IMO if an eidolon can receive negative chronicle boons, then it should be able to receive positive chronicle boons, and vice versa.

My personal opinion is that since eidolons don't receive chronicle sheets they also cannot receive positive or negative chronicle boons.

I agree with this.

Note, if you disagree with this, do you also feel that familiars, mounts, and animal companions can receive negative boons from chronicles?

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
kinevon wrote:
Michael Eshleman wrote:

IMO if an eidolon can receive negative chronicle boons, then it should be able to receive positive chronicle boons, and vice versa.

My personal opinion is that since eidolons don't receive chronicle sheets they also cannot receive positive or negative chronicle boons.

I agree with this.

Note, if you disagree with this, do you also feel that familiars, mounts, and animal companions can receive negative boons from chronicles?

"No, it is not" is not a double negative.

That being said. Boons are meant for characters, not their class abilities.

However, if something negative happens to your class ability, you can't just handwave it away.

Sovereign Court

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Andrew Christian wrote:

Boons are meant for characters, not their class abilities.

However, if something negative happens to your class ability, you can't just handwave it away.

So...

Negative effect = can't handwave it away.
Positive effect = must handwave it away.

Really???

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Andrew Christian wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Michael Eshleman wrote:

IMO if an eidolon can receive negative chronicle boons, then it should be able to receive positive chronicle boons, and vice versa.

My personal opinion is that since eidolons don't receive chronicle sheets they also cannot receive positive or negative chronicle boons.

I agree with this.

Note, if you disagree with this, do you also feel that familiars, mounts, and animal companions can receive negative boons from chronicles?

"No, it is not" is not a double negative.

That being said. Boons are meant for characters, not their class abilities.

However, if something negative happens to your class ability, you can't just handwave it away.

But we don't have the "infrastructure" to track that, short of actually altering the text on chronicle sheets. And the GtOP has always been very clear that's not permitted; compare it to clearing conditions at the end of an adventure. Only a very small set of well-defined conditions is allowed to persist, the rest must be cleared. To avoid saddling the next GM with a PC with a questionable chronicle sheet.


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Andrew Christian wrote:


"No, it is not" is not a double negative.

That being said. Boons are meant for characters, not their class abilities.

However, if something negative happens to your class ability, you can't just handwave it away.

The comma is essential. Too bad you did not use it at first.

Where does it say boons are for characters? Does the owlbear/axebeak/fairy dragon boon effect the character or companion? You are making up rules that do not apply consistently. This makes you look like a hypocrite.

Plus the negative boon listed above is still a boon. Just a negative one. So only negative boons apply?

Now if a companion dies, is level drained, or something in game. Then by all means those should be rectified.

Sovereign Court

I also thought of a corner case.

In Emerald Spire...

Spoiler:
...level 15, Order and Chaos, touching a rune permanently changes your race. Per the module, this applies to creatures of any race. Wish and miracle don't normally exist in PFS, so it isn't reversible.

An animal companion or familiar would need to be replaced, but there is no provision for replacing an eidolon. Would a PFS summoner be left with a core race eidolon, or would she lose the eidolon class feature?

:)

5/5 ⦵⦵ Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg

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Finlanderboy wrote:
Does the owlbear/axebeak/fairy dragon boon effect the character or companion?

It affects the character by adding an option to either their class's companion list or the list they can choose an improved familiar from.

Finlanderboy wrote:
The comma is essential. Too bad you did not use it at first

I see no grammatical sense for "no it is not" other than "no, it is not" with the comma being forgotten. There's a big difference to "it is not no" (or whatever you're reading out of it). Just saying.

On the subject matter, I do see why it shouldn't make sense that you keep bad stuff for your companions/eidolons/etc., but have to give away the good ones, especially when the good boon would only be an actual advantage when on the companion.
On the other hand, I see why bad effects shouldn't be just handwaived away. That would generate an attitude of using companions as lab rats.


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Re: Grammar
Andreas is correct.
Preferred form: "No, it is not."
Without the comma...it means the exact same thing, even if sloppy.

Neither are double negatives.

5/5 ⦵⦵

I can't see any Eidolons getting any negative or positive boons any more than I'd allow a player to ask for a chronicle sheet and gold rewards for their Eidolon, Companion, or Familiar.

5/5 ⦵⦵

Andreas Forster wrote:
That would generate an attitude of using companions as lab rats.

Hmmm that attitude is already well in play, but it would just be one more reason to maintain the practice :)

Too late for that though.

Other common pratices are Summon Animal 1 for a Pony to walk around the dungeon.
You get 50 of them for a low low price in a wand.
A good investment that will last your whole career.

1/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shifty wrote:


Other common pratices are Summon Animal 1 for a Pony to walk around the dungeon.
You get 50 of them for a low low price in a wand.
A good investment that will last your whole career.

My Little Pony, Foisting Is Magic?

Grand Lodge 4/5 Venture-Agent, Nevada—Las Vegas aka kinevon

Finlanderboy wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:


"No, it is not" is not a double negative.

That being said. Boons are meant for characters, not their class abilities.

However, if something negative happens to your class ability, you can't just handwave it away.

The comma is essential. Too bad you did not use it at first.

Where does it say boons are for characters? Does the owlbear/axebeak/fairy dragon boon effect the character or companion? You are making up rules that do not apply consistently. This makes you look like a hypocrite.

Plus the negative boon listed above is still a boon. Just a negative one. So only negative boons apply?

Now if a companion dies, is level drained, or something in game. Then by all means those should be rectified.

And there are rules for that.

Paladin mount, or Druid AC dies? Not available until next game, starts with only bonus tricks, train replacement tricks at a "set" rate.

Is Padraig a single outsider, or just a "common" name applied by Balazar to whichever protean shows up when he calls his eidolon?

Sovereign Court

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Andrew Christian wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Michael Eshleman wrote:

IMO if an eidolon can receive negative chronicle boons, then it should be able to receive positive chronicle boons, and vice versa.

My personal opinion is that since eidolons don't receive chronicle sheets they also cannot receive positive or negative chronicle boons.

I agree with this.

Note, if you disagree with this, do you also feel that familiars, mounts, and animal companions can receive negative boons from chronicles?

"No, it is not" is not a double negative.

That being said. Boons are meant for characters, not their class abilities.

However, if something negative happens to your class ability, you can't just handwave it away.

This seems like a very arbitrary inconsistency that is designed to operate against the player, and frankly seems rather hostile. Is the root of the intent to prevent the eidolon from becoming more powerful than what the class feature intends, but also allow it to become weaker?

The logic should follow that if class features cannot benefit from boons, that they should certainly not be impacted by negative boons. Or you allow class features to be impacted by positive boons and negative boons. The approach must be consistent. Inconsistent rulings are inconsistent.

Sovereign Court

kinevon wrote:
Is Padraig a single outsider, or just a "common" name applied by Balazar to whichever protean shows up when he calls his eidolon?

"The eidolon forms a link with the summoner, who, forever after, summons an aspect of the same creature." (APG p.55)

It's the same creature every time. This is why you can change evolutions but not the base form.

Sovereign Court

Most of you seem to agree that there should be a consistent ruling. Eidolons should either get both positive and negative boons or not get any boons.

Can we come to a consensus about whether or not eidolons should get any boons?

Sovereign Court 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

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Right now there's no rules that would allow them to get any boons. Anything else is wishful thinking.

Scarab Sages

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Andrew Christian wrote:
kinevon wrote:
Michael Eshleman wrote:

IMO if an eidolon can receive negative chronicle boons, then it should be able to receive positive chronicle boons, and vice versa.

My personal opinion is that since eidolons don't receive chronicle sheets they also cannot receive positive or negative chronicle boons.

I agree with this.

Note, if you disagree with this, do you also feel that familiars, mounts, and animal companions can receive negative boons from chronicles?

"No, it is not" is not a double negative.

That being said. Boons are meant for characters, not their class abilities.

However, if something negative happens to your class ability, you can't just handwave it away.

Boons may have a 'negative' or 'positive' effect but they are always just boons. If a boon can effect a class feature, then another boon can effect a class feature. Positive or negative effect does not matter. There is nothing that marks positive or negative boons as separate things with separate rules.

I see no definite rule in the PFS guidebook stating boons with negative effects must do their effect and positive boons must not... so, I'd like to know where your definite answer that that is so comes from.

Scarab Sages

Xellrael wrote:

Most of you seem to agree that there should be a consistent ruling. Eidolons should either get both positive and negative boons or not get any boons.

Can we come to a consensus about whether or not eidolons should get any boons?

I see no rules that states anything except the character earning the chronicle sheet gains any benefit(or disadvantage), except where explicitly defined.

Boons are a chronicle sheet thing. Only PCs get chronicle sheets. The chronicle sheet can make changes to class features, but will explicitly say they do so. So, if the eidolon does not get a chronicle sheet and the PC does not have a chronicle sheet that states the eidolon has a change in status... then the eidolon does not have a change in status.

Dark Archive 4/5

I think what's being forgotten is that the "boon" is a curse. It's on the chronicle to remind players of the affliction, since it is apparently a curse that doesn't have to be removed immediately. So reframing the question, does the eidolon need to clear the curse, or does it get off scot free because it happens to be on the chronicle as well?

Shadow Lodge

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Dresden10589 wrote:
So reframing the question, does the eidolon need to clear the curse, or does it get off scot free because it happens to be on the chronicle as well?

Eidolon is a class feature. The confusion comes from the fact that it is also a pseudo pc. As much as my eidolon argues with Andoran officals (in game) that he should be able to join the Eagle Knights and not allowing him in is racist, he can't join the Eagle Knights and get those benefits. Therefore he can't be hit with a negative boon.

It's fair either way.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Not really. The point is, if you allow for positive boons to affect pets, there are many that would need a whole slew of new rules or FAQ answers to resolve.

And if negative boons can't apply, then the risk for the pet is removed.

Neither of these is a good thing.

Dark Archive 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Andrew Christian wrote:

Not really. The point is, if you allow for positive boons to affect pets, there are many that would need a whole slew of new rules or FAQ answers to resolve.

And if negative boons can't apply, then the risk for the pet is removed.

Neither of these is a good thing.

But this is what people are arguing, Andy. This is an all or nothing argument; either they can, or they can't.

4/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Andrew Christian wrote:

Not really. The point is, if you allow for positive boons to affect pets, there are many that would need a whole slew of new rules or FAQ answers to resolve.

And if negative boons can't apply, then the risk for the pet is removed.

Neither of these is a good thing.

Neither is having the possibility of inconsistent rulings based on whether it's positive or negative. It's particularly concerning when talking about eidolons because they theoretically can't be replaced in the same way as other pets. An animal companion could die, be released, or what have you and just be replaced to avoid the consequences of a negative boon, but that's not the case for an eidolon.

I'm having difficulty discerning the distinction between the sigil wafers and the curse here (as far as specific examples are concerned). Both amount to "an in-game effect happened to my critter because of something it did," but the argument I'm seeing is that only the curse impacts it. How is that intuitive?

Dark Archive 5/5

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Serisan wrote:
Andrew Christian wrote:

Not really. The point is, if you allow for positive boons to affect pets, there are many that would need a whole slew of new rules or FAQ answers to resolve.

And if negative boons can't apply, then the risk for the pet is removed.

Neither of these is a good thing.

Neither is having the possibility of inconsistent rulings based on whether it's positive or negative. It's particularly concerning when talking about eidolons because they theoretically can't be replaced in the same way as other pets. An animal companion could die, be released, or what have you and just be replaced to avoid the consequences of a negative boon, but that's not the case for an eidolon.

I'm having difficulty discerning the distinction between the sigil wafers and the curse here (as far as specific examples are concerned). Both amount to "an in-game effect happened to my critter because of something it did," but the argument I'm seeing is that only the curse impacts it. How is that intuitive?

It's not.

The Exchange 5/5

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I have been trying to ignore the urge to post on this thread - but I finally missed my Will save and so I am sure I am going to regret this...

let's add in another twist to this...

Picture this:

DM says, "the magic item your PC just put on is cursed, but it's a minor curse."
Player: "Arg! What's the bad news?"
DM, "It makes your eyes glow red in the dark, and dogs and small children of all races are afraid of you."
Player: "Ok, got that. But what's the curse? what's the bad part?"
DM says, "It makes your eyes glow red in the dark, and dogs and small children of all races are afraid of you."
Player: "But, what's the curse?"
DM: "that's the curse"
Player: "Huh?"

In the example above the Player thought the curse was Cool. Just think about it! Your character has glowing red eyes and dogs and small children of all races cower in fear of you!

The DM thought it was ... well, a curse.

Sometimes curses are all in the eyes of the viewer...

Two schools of RPGs:

For years I have noticed two general kinds of Players (and we are players on both sides of the DM Screen) – which I refer to as falling into the “Two Schools of RPG Gaming.”

School 1: RPG’s are games that pit the skill and wit of the player against DM (and her skill and wit).

School 2: RPG’s are games in which the players (the DM being one) have adventures together.

For myself, I’m in School 2, which is why I often show my "gimmicks" to the other players (even the guy running the game). I mean I may never use them in the game, but if I share them we can all enjoy them – or looked at it another way I “use” them each time I show them to someone. I like to think I’m playing the game WITH the other players when I do this, not AGAINST them. And the guy/girl running the game is (to me) just another player so why wouldn't I show them the cool thing too?

But there are lots of players (again, both sides of that DM screen) who are in School 1. When we (School 2 players) show them a cute trick they are driven to try to counter it, perhaps spending hours or days coming up with reasons why it wont work (often keeping these secret so they can spring them in a "gotcha!" moment) – sometime saying it will not work for this or that reason, or even “not in my game!”. Sometimes these can be real stretches of reality or game mechanics. But you see, they are playing against the other players and a gimmick is something they have to counter to "win". They assume everyone is trying to "take advantage" of them.

Personally, I try to avoid the School 1 types – both Judges and players (I think there are lots more players then judges in school #1. IMO School 1 types don’t often make good Judges.) Mostly I do this because I seem to have less fun in games with them. And they often have less fun playing in a game with me (I don't seem to "fight against" them - it's no challenge to "beat" me in the game).

This is not to say that a School 2 Judge (or player for that matter!) will let something slide – good ones don’t. But if we are “talking shop” they will often say – “that might not work because of X” and some might even add “but if you did Y also…”. (School 1 types would say) We can then sit down and ensure to "balance" it to make it "fair" to "both sides".

School 1 - Confrontational - "It's US vs. THEM" or "It's YOU vs. ME".

School 2 - Conspiratorial - "We're playing this game TOGETHER".

School 1 - "We need to limit this, otherwise 'they' are going to 'take advantage' and 'game the system'."
School 2 - "But what is 'fair'? How can it work 'against the players' both ways?"

the conflict here comes from the "two schools of RPGs"

Lantern Lodge 5/5

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Wouldn't you just arbitrate it on a case-by-case basis? Expect Table Variation.

Aside: Who's letting eidolons eat sigil wafers?

Before the Dawn 1:
If for some reason you're unable to dismiss your eidolon while being tortured, it'd get the penalty boon. I'd give it to animal companions and familiars too.

You Only Die Twice:
You only pay once.

Ironbound Schism:
If both of you get cursed, both of you are cursed.

Way of the Kirin:
Amara Li teaches you, not your eidolon.

Refuge of Time:
Can eidolons use ioun stones? Even if so, there's only one.

Destiny of the Sands 3:
The sage infuses you with power, not your eidolon.

Tapestry's Toil:
Your eidolon would be jsut as respected as the summoner- -get your double +2!

Most don't make sense for an eidolon. I'm aware that 'make sense' isn't a rules term. Still, use a little judgment.

The Exchange 5/5

Jayson MF Kip wrote:

Wouldn't you just arbitrate it on a case-by-case basis? Expect Table Variation.

Aside: Who's letting eidolons eat sigil wafers?

** spoiler omitted **

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Most don't make sense for an eidolon. I'm aware that 'make sense' isn't a rules term. Still, use a little judgment.

...and realize that the girl running the next table may disagree with your opinion...

This is all about being consistent in rulings where there are no written rules. Something that is almost impossible in PFS.

Silver Crusade 5/5

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nosig wrote:


In the example above the Player thought the curse was Cool. Just think about it! Your character has glowing red eyes and dogs and small children of all races cower in fear of you!

The DM thought it was ... well, a curse.

The Girdle of Opposite Gender is the classic example of an item that is cursed but many people and/or characters don't.

Scarab Sages

nosig wrote:
Jayson MF Kip wrote:

Wouldn't you just arbitrate it on a case-by-case basis? Expect Table Variation.

Aside: Who's letting eidolons eat sigil wafers?

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

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Most don't make sense for an eidolon. I'm aware that 'make sense' isn't a rules term. Still, use a little judgment.

...and realize that the girl running the next table may disagree with your opinion...

This is all about being consistent in rulings where there are no written rules. Something that is almost impossible in PFS.

It's really simple if you follow the standard rules already set forth. Though, one thing that is unclear(unless I just haven't seen the answer to this yet) is if effects that are not treated that lead to a player being declared 'dead' at the end of scenario also lead to companion death. Most likely it does as they are characters.

No effects carry forward between scenarios except certain effects(Many negative permanent effects lead to death if not dealt with).

The chronicle sheet carries boons which do things as they are described and nothing more. If you don't have a chronicle sheet that gives a change in status, then you don't have a change in status. ACs, familiars and eidolons never gain chronicle sheets and are thus never affected by them except though the PCs status changes(unless otherwise specifically noted). How boons work and are applied is not under the purview of individual GMs(That is for PFS leadership only). More or less only whether they are unlocked for the character gaining the character sheet is. As such, a gm can not give extra chronicle sheets for companions nor can they change a boon to do more than it says it does. Though, individual effects can still be adjudicated when they are unclear as normal.

That means, if it is listed as a positive or negative boon, it can not affect anything other than the PC unless otherwise noted.

This of course holds no bearing on things like curse spells or negative levels from spells and abilities... which do still affect companions and must be dealt with as normal. But we weren't talking about those cases, only the cases of boon effects.

Two examples. If there is a none-boon curse that affects an eidolon then it is recorded on the chronicle sheet and must be dealt with as normal. But, if there is a boon which works like a curse then it is already recorded on the chronicle sheet and can be unlocked during the scenario for the one the chronicle sheet is applied to.

tl;dr
Boons are on chronicle sheets. Chronicle sheets are only applied to PCs not companions. Individual GMs can not modify boons. They can only declare boons are unlocked. None-boon effects still work exactly as written in the PFS guild guide.

Sovereign Court

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From the Guide to Organized Play 7:

Under Conditions, Death, and Expendables (p.23) it states "All conditions gained during an adventure, except for permanent negative levels, ability drain that does not reduce an ability score to 0, and conditions that provide no mechanical effect, must be resolved before the end of the
session; if these are not resolved the character should be reported as ‘dead.’

Under Spells (p.25-26) it states "All spells and effects end at the end of a scenario with the following exceptions: ... Afflictions and harmful conditions obtained during a scenario remain until healed and carry over from scenario to scenario (except in specific instances as noted [above]).

I therefore conclude:

1. Andrew Christian is right. The general rule is to handwave the good stuff and keep the bad stuff.

2. If an eidolon doesn't resolve conditions, it is reported as "dead." Since death doesn't have a long term effect on an eidolon, it can effectively handwave conditions between scenarios.

3. As Lorewalker (and others) stated, eidolons do not receive anything printed in the body of a chronicle.

Shadow Lodge

nosig wrote:
Jayson MF Kip wrote:

Wouldn't you just arbitrate it on a case-by-case basis? Expect Table Variation.

Aside: Who's letting eidolons eat sigil wafers?

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Most don't make sense for an eidolon. I'm aware that 'make sense' isn't a rules term. Still, use a little judgment.

...and realize that the girl running the next table may disagree with your opinion...

This is all about being consistent in rulings where there are no written rules. Something that is almost impossible in PFS.

And in both cases the gm should make sure the summoner does not feel screwed or treated unfairly. Example I saw.

GM (before game, Test of Tar Kuata): This module has a lot of skill check.

Player: Great, I'll play my Summoner with skill based Eidolon.

GM:Sounds good.

In game, GM rules eidolon can't participate in tests because they are not a pc.

1/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kerney wrote:


And in both cases the gm should make sure the summoner does not feel screwed or treated unfairly. Example I saw.

GM (before game, Test of Tar Kuata): This module has a lot of skill check.

Player: Great, I'll play my Summoner with skill based Eidolon.

GM:Sounds good.

In game, GM rules eidolon can't participate in tests because they are not a pc.

...really? That sounds rather anti-'Wheaton's Law'-ish.

"Sure, you can play that particular character. Don't worry, I won't let your character use their primary class feature but I won't tell you that until after play starts."

Are you sure that it wasn't just a GM not reading the module entirely or somesuch?

Alternatively, what if that's the only entity in the party *capable* of making needed rolls, and the table decided the composition based on that?

The Exchange 5/5

Kerney wrote:
nosig wrote:
Jayson MF Kip wrote:

Wouldn't you just arbitrate it on a case-by-case basis? Expect Table Variation.

Aside: Who's letting eidolons eat sigil wafers?

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Most don't make sense for an eidolon. I'm aware that 'make sense' isn't a rules term. Still, use a little judgment.

...and realize that the girl running the next table may disagree with your opinion...

This is all about being consistent in rulings where there are no written rules. Something that is almost impossible in PFS.

And in both cases the gm should make sure the summoner does not feel screwed or treated unfairly. Example I saw.

GM (before game, Test of Tar Kuata): This module has a lot of skill check.

Player: Great, I'll play my Summoner with skill based Eidolon.

GM:Sounds good.

In game, GM rules eidolon can't participate in tests because they are not a pc.

but in both cases the guy/girl running things thinks they are running things "fairly" - when they are doing exactly opposite things.

We get that in PFS (or any Organized Play game), it comes from having different people - often totally unconnected people - running the game at the table.

In a home game, with the same group of players, we can decide something and have it remain that way from game to game. In PFS we don't/can't have that. It's the nature of the beast. We (often) have different people at the table for each session.

Expect table variation. Try to keep it to a minimum... which is why we come to the boards and hash out things here.

Shadow Lodge

Wei Ji the Learner wrote:

...really? That sounds rather anti-'Wheaton's Law'-ish.

"Sure, you can play that particular character. Don't worry, I won't let your character use their primary class feature but I won't tell you that until after play starts."

For what it's worth, I want to empathize that both the gm and player are good people. I just think the GM in question had never dealt with a skill monkey eidolon and thus didn't get how much he was screwing the summoner.

But the point is, when you decide what an Eidolon can or can't do consider how the character presents itself and react accordingly.

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