Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
So, in a game, the PC'S were able to charm the captain of a fortress into not attacking and helping them against a few other residents. Now, this guard captain has been having some conflicting thoughts about her past ancestry and her employers. Another PC (one who didn't charm her) made a successful Diplomacy check to enlist her to aid them against her master.
My main question is this: after the charm wears off, will she remember being convinced to do away with her former alliance? Or is she mind-wiped of whatever transpired during the spell?
You remember being charmed, if you saw the spell being cast (you would actually remember this DURING the spell too, but just wouldn't care / "I love you anyway man you're my best friend regardless of you always wobbling your hands at me and saying scary stuff! Woooo!"). And you should remember everything that happened during the spell too.
A diplomacy check by not-the-caster just treat completely as normal. Other than the possibility of logical suspicion about that person after the fact, if there would is a reason to be especially suspicious of them after realizing the charm was a charm and not a good thing.
For example, if she was charmed then saw random other people requesting things as normal for a normal day, she probably shouldn't suspect them of being involved, necessarily. Whereas if she was charmed, led into a special room, where a guy convinced her of stuff, then left, that would be deeply suspicious, and she should probably change her mind about anything she agreed to then.
Personally, I'd also be very be wary about anything decided or discussed during that time, even if I didn't directly suspect any one person. But that may differ based on the type of person. And at most should be general reconsideration of everything, not hostility toward everyone.
There's certainly no mind-wiping involved. Post-charm, I'd say the target does the same thing the rest of us do, every day: Changes his mind about the caster (back to "enemy"), then re-justifies everything he did in light of his new opinion.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Hm, alright. I think I can roll with that. Thanks!
Cognitive dissonance is an excellent suggestion that makes sense for smoothing over the brain wrinkles a little bit. Cognitive dissonance is not godly, though, don't stretch it too far. If during your charm you slept with your best friend's wife, and vandalized your boss' house sober, and crashed your Mercedes brand horse into a tree, when normally you knit for fun on Saturday evenings, AND you now don't even LIKE that person you were with, then you're not just going to go "oh well, silly me" You're gonna be like "wtf, I was obviously hella mind controlled"
Especially if they saw the spell and it just happened to coincide with changes in feelings, that's pretty damning.
Quote: Here's something interesting about Charm spells... If somebody is aware that they were charmed afterward (which generally they should be if they saw the spell, maybe not if you did it with silence from the rafters), then they should be well aware you were manipulating them, and the diplomacy rolls should be re-evaluated with the natural DC at that point + probably a penalty for plainly tricking them.
It does say in the actual rules what diplomacy MEANS: "You can use this skill to persuade others to agree with your arguments" <--you can't just ignore that. If circumstances would clearly make any normal person re-evaluate persuasions toward arguments, then it should be re-evaluated appropriately (at their natural DC now).
And if they know they were tricked, at the very least the same +10 as well you get for "Dangerous aid" since I think most sane people would realize that continuing to go along with somebody who just mind controlled you is, at best, "dangerous aid"
Though if you managed to do the charm without them being aware of the spell, then probably no penalties at all, scheme as stated OK.
If the diplomacy roll(keep the number) would have succeeded even with the penalties for being hostile or unfriendly toward you, then it stays after the spell expires. Otherwise, they reevaluate and it fails at that point.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Here would be a case where what the target was made to do could matter. If the caster uses the spell merely to get the target to talk to him when he would otherwise attack on sight and then negotiates a deal that turns out well for the target, the target would be far more forgiving in that case than if he comes out of the spell with the attitude of "What the heck? I can't believe what that nasty caster made me do!" Of course, even in the former case he might be wondering if there is some catch to the deal that he hasn't seen yet.
David knott 242 wrote: Here would be a case where what the target was made to do could matter. If the caster uses the spell merely to get the target to talk to him when he would otherwise attack on sight and then negotiates a deal that turns out well for the target, the target would be far more forgiving in that case than if he comes out of the spell with the attitude of "What the heck? I can't believe what that nasty caster made me do!" Of course, even in the former case he might be wondering if there is some catch to the deal that he hasn't seen yet.
Also, depending on the nature of the city/nation involved, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for the victim to go to the legal authorities to report the incident. It is a safe bet that any well regulated town or nation of any appreciable size would have laws against people using mind controlling magic on the citizenry, and specifically against representatives of the state (in the OP, the victim was described as a captain of a castle).
If the PC is still nearby, it wouldn't be crazy for the constabulary, backed up by their own spell casters, to show up to arrest the PC for using magic to influence the minds of the innocent.
Saldiven wrote: David knott 242 wrote: Here would be a case where what the target was made to do could matter. If the caster uses the spell merely to get the target to talk to him when he would otherwise attack on sight and then negotiates a deal that turns out well for the target, the target would be far more forgiving in that case than if he comes out of the spell with the attitude of "What the heck? I can't believe what that nasty caster made me do!" Of course, even in the former case he might be wondering if there is some catch to the deal that he hasn't seen yet.
Also, depending on the nature of the city/nation involved, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for the victim to go to the legal authorities to report the incident. It is a safe bet that any well regulated town or nation of any appreciable size would have laws against people using mind controlling magic on the citizenry, and specifically against representatives of the state (in the OP, the victim was described as a captain of a castle).
If the PC is still nearby, it wouldn't be crazy for the constabulary, backed up by their own spell casters, to show up to arrest the PC for using magic to influence the minds of the innocent. I think most GM guides do suggest having, say, a merchant guild having a wandering caster on watch for someone trying to slip Charm Person into haggling.
But overall, I think a big part of it would be how you treated the guy, and of course how much he or she knows of the spell. There's an example in the FAQ about casting it on, say, an orc, and what results. He'd probably boast of raids past present and future, and maybe share some beer (especially if you're buying), but not really care about tilling a field. So, afterwards, when the charm wears off, if the orc is at the ploughshare, he's probably going to start beating it into a sword. But if he's walking out of a bar with a good buzz, he's probably not really thinking too heavily about the 'friend' who bought the booze.
And if he learns that people who cast Charm Person usually also buy him good booze? Assuming he isn't slaughtered with the intel given ... well ...
Quote: Of course, even in the former case he might be wondering if there is some catch to the deal that he hasn't seen yet. Yes, I think personally, even something as seemingly benign as asking me to pass the sugar would be critically re-evaluated from every angle in terms of "What was he REALLY up to?" if mind control were used to accomplish it. Not as much of a penalty, but some amount of penalty always, I'd say, to the diplomacy DC afterward if they know the spell was cast.
RDM42 wrote: If the diplomacy roll(keep the number) would have succeeded even with the penalties for being hostile or unfriendly toward you, then it stays after the spell expires. Otherwise, they reevaluate and it fails at that point. Please support this claim mechanically
|
