Wei Ji the Learner |
What are the basic gear assumptions in PFS by level?
In at least two modules I've played in (probably more, but the party may have gotten very lucky/had lenient GM), the opponents encountered have had *way too much* for the party to handle *at tier*. Note, I'm not talking necessarily foolish tactics, nor am I talking about tables that are trying to play 'hard' mode or 'up'.
So what are the assumptions that modules are based on for level in terms of gear?
Example: Some of the Season Six assumes that you have an adamantine weapon at the level one-two bracket
It's really frustrating to get two-thirds of the way into a scenario and then have to basically go 'Welp, we can't beat that, EVER, at this level, with our gear.'
Muser |
There's nothing too comprehensive. Which is good, since spoilers. The campaign's easy enough even without a "walkthrough".
Two things I'd list as must-buy on any level: oil of daylight and magic weapon(oil's enough). Incorporeals and deeper darkness are the two most dangerous things on almost any level. Got the Sun domain/Fiend Sight and ghost touch/salt? That's great! The rest of us have to use spells or consumables so better gear up.
Beyond those, robots can be grappled/grinded/electrified/pit'd. For Black tentacles there're dozens of options. Haunts too, etc.
Nefreet |
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Most of my melee characters aim for an Adamantine weapon right off the bat. It's achievable by level 2-3. It's one of the reasons I find the Expedition Manager Boon so desirable.
Animated Objects are a low CR encounter, Golems are a mid-high CR encounter, and Stoneskin is a high CR encounter, so an Adamantine weapon will be useful throughout your adventuring career.
An oil of Magic Weapon is 50gp, so DR/Magic isn't a problem. DR/Cold Iron (and /Silver) is overcome by the time you enchant your Adamantine weapon to +3. And an oil of Bless Weapon is 50gp, so DR/Evil isn't a problem.
At the beginning of Season 6 I heard a lot of ppl griping that it was the "Year of the Adamantine weapon", but really that was already my mindset from the beginning.
Gleaming Terrier |
Yeah, greater invisibility as a level 2 is hard to deal with. I have a sort of makeshift kit to deal with contingencies like that at lower levels.
Cold Iron Arrows (for demons and fey)
Powder (for invisibility)
Silver dagger in wrist sheathe (for lycanthropes, grappling and being swallowed alive)
Adamantine and ghost salt blanch (can each be used on 10 arrows)
Later, if my character doesn't have darkvision, I add an oil of daylight to deal with darkness. It's more expensive than a scroll, but you can't read a scroll in darkness.
Wei Ji the Learner |
There's nothing too comprehensive. Which is good, since spoilers. The campaign's easy enough even without a "walkthrough".
I would strongly disagree with this assessment. It might be 'easier' for experienced players who have been playing a while (player experience as well as character experience being a thing), but there have been very few 'easy' scenarios for tables I've been at. Either we have 'the magic trick' to defeating a given situation, or it turns into a grinding slugfest.
UndeadMitch |
Example: Some of the Season Six assumes that you have an adamantine weapon at the level one-two bracket
I can only think of a single season six 1-5 that has a thing with hardness in the low subtier. Which can be rough if the party doesn't have someone that can hit for a bunch of damage, but isn't insurmountable. It's a corner case, at best, a blip on the radar. There have been other thing in subtier 1-2 that are as bad or worse, like the BBEG from [REDACTED] that has regen [REDACTED MATERIAL] or [REDACTED QUALITY].
Wei Ji the Learner |
I can only think of a single season six 1-5 that has a thing with hardness in the low subtier. Which can be rough if the party doesn't have someone that can hit for a bunch of damage, but isn't insurmountable. It's a corner case, at best, a blip on the radar. There have been other thing in subtier 1-2 that are as bad or worse, like the BBEG from [REDACTED] that has regen [REDACTED MATERIAL] or [REDACTED QUALITY].
I've played through one scenario and partially through another -- we didn't have the bunch of damage for one encounter and then in another encounter *one* (of a handful) of the opponents nearly brought the party down.
Now, if I've only played the 'outliers' that's one thing, but given that one of those scenarios was one of my first gaming experiences in PFS...?
EDIT: Also, above listed equipment suggestions from Mike, little is below 50gp, and would be obscure to new players. And some of it simply unattainable until L6-7 at the earliest if players are keeping their armor and weapons up to date.
Muser |
Muser wrote:I would strongly disagree with this assessment. It might be 'easier' for experienced players who have been playing a while (player experience as well as character experience being a thing), but there have been very few 'easy' scenarios for tables I've been at. Either we have 'the magic trick' to defeating a given situation, or it turns into a grinding slugfest.There's nothing too comprehensive. Which is good, since spoilers. The campaign's easy enough even without a "walkthrough".
Examples? I can think of a few recently released party stompers, but nothing like season 4's start and nothing that has a hard counter. Unless one can find an immunity to piercing damage. Prolly not. It's just been a very hectic season so far.
This assumes we're talking about recent scenarios. Apologies if it was The Beggar's Pearl and Fortess of the Nail!
Fromper |
I've never bought an adamantine weapon for any of my melee types. I probably should, but they're just way too expensive at low levels, and by higher level, you should be doing enough damage with power attack, sneak attack dice, and other bonuses to just power through DR, and not worry about special items for something that rarely comes up.
But season 6 did seem like the season where it was likely to come up the most. I didn't do much PFS last year, so I haven't played most of season 6 yet, so I'm not sure how bad it was after the first few scenarios.
The Fourth Horseman |
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One thing not mentioned is AoE items.....like alchemist fire, acid, etc. A lot of adventures, especially low level, have swarms. I don't know how many times I've been the only one at the table capable of dealing with a spider swarm because I was the only person with flasks of acid.
I would even suggest a swarmbane clasp for the occasional high level swarm. When they happen, Alchemists' Fire just doesn't cut it.
Imbicatus |
Tamec wrote:One thing not mentioned is AoE items.....like alchemist fire, acid, etc. A lot of adventures, especially low level, have swarms. I don't know how many times I've been the only one at the table capable of dealing with a spider swarm because I was the only person with flasks of acid.I would even suggest a swarmbane clasp for the occasional high level swarm. When they happen, Alchemists' Fire just doesn't cut it.
I'll second this. Swarmbane clasps have prevented a Tpk in at least two scenarios I have played
WiseWolfOfYoitsu |
Tamec wrote:One thing not mentioned is AoE items.....like alchemist fire, acid, etc. A lot of adventures, especially low level, have swarms. I don't know how many times I've been the only one at the table capable of dealing with a spider swarm because I was the only person with flasks of acid.I would even suggest a swarmbane clasp for the occasional high level swarm. When they happen, Alchemists' Fire just doesn't cut it.
Not to mention archers with one of these allows you to make swarm kabobs... Had to have my Martial Artist standing in a swarm that dealt CON drain in a Seeker-tier Module so that the party could get far enough away and have the Ranger with a clasp make some kabobs. That Martial Artist DR versus ability damage, drain, or temporary reductions is amazing!
Otagian Venture-Agent, Missouri—St. Louis |
Yeah, I haven't bought adamantine because of the cost, but every PC I build has at least one or two acid flasks in their starting equipment. They're only 10 gp each, so even someone buying weapons and armor should be able to afford one.
Honestly, I buy adamantine less because of constructs or hardness and more due to the inevitable Treant.
medtec28 |
I have been accused of being cynical, but my ideal kit assumes
I will face DR (Power attck, clustered shot, adamantine weapon etc)
I will be in a party of strikers and need to do elemental damage( alchemist fire/acid)
I will need to fight an enemy out of reach (ranged weapon, poition of fly)
I will need to provide healing to a down party member(any of the myriad of healing)
I will be face with an incorporeal enemy, in the dark, while surprised. (Oil of daylight, oil of magic weapon)
I will be grappled (just haven't found a cost effective way out of this one)
I will need to breath underwater (air crystal, touch of the sea)
And, I'm not the worst, I have a buddy who spends probably several hundred gp on items costing 5gp or less, but he did have a deck of cards when we needed them.
nosig |
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I had a judge for a game I was going to play send out the following in an email... and I found it very "Awesome!", so I thought I'd share it with my friends here (and the rest of you too!).
(in the email sent to all the players before the game):
I will remind you to be prepared for the basics.
Disease
Poisons
Ability damage (potentially drain)
Swarms
Invisible opponents
Incorporeal opponents
Extremes in temperature
Being grappled
Religious extremists who do not like you
Travel in an area where Pathfinders are not legal
Then you leave the venture captains office...
Alex McGuire |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I've got a character that hands out what he calls "preparedness bags" to everyone he adventures with. They contain:
Cold Iron longspear
Silver light mace
Cold iron dagger
Light crossbow, 10 bolts cold iron, 10 bolts silver blanched
2 acid flasks
2 alchemist fires
Oil of bless weapon
Oil of magic weapon
They have saved the day once or twice.
kinevon |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Anti-toxin
anti-plague
dagger or other one-handed weapon
alchemical grease (+5 to attempts to break a grapple, lasts an hour, IIRC)
Club or morningstar, probably silvered
Dagger or other slashing weapon, cold iron
Ranged weapon (ammo with various weapon blanches on them, many ranged users in higher levels will be using silver blanched cold iron arrows as their default, rather than plain arrows)
Potions of invisibility, fly, gaseous form (not required, but all some form of potential get-out-of-jail-free card, or negate such an enemy card)
Wand of CLW or IH (very few parties don't have someone who can use one or the other)
Potion of CLW (Wake up, Mr. Cleric! Once you are awake, you can heal us all!)
Wand of Mage Armor, Endure Elements, etc. (situational or build based)
Scroll of Comprehend Languages/Tongues
Oil of Daylight or item with Heightened Continual Flame on it
Tanglefoot bags (if you can hit, they are entangled, the save is against being glued down or losing natural flight)
Alchemist's fire or other AoE (swarmbane clasp in higher play)
Wand or potion of Protection from Evil (nothing sucks worse than having your party's BBDD attacking your party)
There is more, there is always more.
2 PP gets you a scroll with 5 castings of Lesser Restoration on it.
2,000 gp gets you a cracked purple prism (vibrant?) Ioun stone, which can hold a first level spell for anyone to be able to cast. True Strike for the Barbarian? Emergency CLW held by anyone? Shield for the Monk? Seriously, these things rock.
Edit: Add the various Cloaks of the Apprentice, which let you cast certain spells once/day....
theshoveller Venture-Agent, United Kingdom—England—Sheffield |
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Examples? I can think of a few recently released party stompers, but nothing like season 4's start and nothing that has a hard counter. Unless one can find an immunity to piercing damage. Prolly not. It's just been a very hectic season so far.This assumes we're talking about recent scenarios. Apologies if it was The Beggar's Pearl and Fortess of the Nail!
Paths We Choose has an encounter that assumes
Silver Mount Collection is [spoiler]notorious.
Seagang Expedition has
The last encounter of From Under Ice at the higher tier is
What all of these scenarios have in common is a sharp difficulty curve at about level 4. Pathfinder is complex enough that players hitting level 4 with their first (or second, or third) characters are likely to be overwhelmed if they don't have veterans to help them through it (and that those veterans can bring their A-game without overshadowing the newbies).
Auke Teeninga Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic |
medtec28 |
andreww |
Auke Teeninga wrote:Noted, but I was hoping for something reactive not proactive. Alchemical grease doesn't help once you get grappledmedtec28 wrote:I will be grappled (just haven't found a cost effective way out of this one)(Even stacks with the Grease spell and Liberating Command!)
There are wands of freedom of movement and dimension door out there on certain chronicles. A wand of grease is a cheap alternative.
Ascalaphus Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden |
WiseWolfOfYoitsu |
Kunai is another option. It can be used as a Crowbar or Piton without penalty, deals P or B, and when you get a Alchemical Silver one, it has no reduction to damage.
Where is the rule stating that alchemical silver doesn't drop the damage of this weapon? It isn't in the Ranged Tactics Toolbox with the weapon.
Jeff Merola |
blackbloodtroll wrote:Kunai is another option. It can be used as a Crowbar or Piton without penalty, deals P or B, and when you get a Alchemical Silver one, it has no reduction to damage.Where is the rule stating that alchemical silver doesn't drop the damage of this weapon? It isn't in the Ranged Tactics Toolbox with the weapon.
I think he was misremembering the -1 damage to piercing or slashing weapons as -1 damage to non-bludgeoning, which would make a difference in this case.
Ascalaphus Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden |
Tamec Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs |
Two-Gun Sam |
What are the basic gear assumptions in PFS by level?
In at least two modules I've played in (probably more, but the party may have gotten very lucky/had lenient GM), the opponents encountered have had *way too much* for the party to handle *at tier*. Note, I'm not talking necessarily foolish tactics, nor am I talking about tables that are trying to play 'hard' mode or 'up'.
So what are the assumptions that modules are based on for level in terms of gear?
Example: Some of the Season Six assumes that you have an adamantine weapon at the level one-two bracket
It's really frustrating to get two-thirds of the way into a scenario and then have to basically go 'Welp, we can't beat that, EVER, at this level, with our gear.'
I was looking at some older threads (the current PFS board is a bit of a downer), and I ran across this... and then remembered my last game.
Played in a game this last weekend with a lady starting a Sorcerer... one of her spells was Coin Shot. In reading thru this thread it hit me... she actually did "...have an adamantine weapon at the level one-two bracket...". She was +5 to hit with it (with Point Blank Shot), it was a ranged touch attack and (when using plat. pieces to be adamantine) it did 1d10+1 (maybe +2?). And she got 3 shots with each of the castings of her spell (I think she actually had 5 castings). I think this spell is going to impress me... I need to go look at it more.
And it was really funny when her little Halfling made "pistol" hands and went "pew-pew" like she was shooting things! Great RP stuff!
Azothath |
check my thread PFS Items that can save you...
I'd say look at the Pregenerated Characters - you should have that or better.
Azothath |
As of 22 February 2016, coin shot is legal for play.
hmmm rng tch within 20ft 1Pt:(1d10+[CL/2] Crit:20 x2) B&P {MW, adamt for DR} a bit expensive and costly as a std action {3 of them} but good below 5th level. You might want to Weapon Blanch the Au. see Pellet Blast. Abundant Ammunition won't work as Coin Shot says it transforms 3 coins to do this.
seems like a kineticist spell...Two-Gun Sam |
Add'l Resources wrote:As of 22 February 2016, coin shot is legal for play.hmmm rng tch within 20ft 1Pt:(1d10+[CL/2] Crit:20 x2) B&P {MW, adamt for DR} a bit expensive and costly as a std action {3 of them} but good below 5th level. You might want to Weapon Blanch the Au. see Pellet Blast. Abundant Ammunition won't work as Coin Shot says it transforms 3 coins to do this.
seems like a kineticist spell...
To many abbreviations - you lost me totally...
I think you are saying it's a good spell for someone below 5th level?
Azothath |
Stephen Ross wrote:Add'l Resources wrote:As of 22 February 2016, coin shot is legal for play.hmmm rng tch within 20ft 1Pt:(1d10+[CL/2] Crit:20 x2) B&P {MW, adamt for DR} a bit expensive and costly as a std action {3 of them} but good below 5th level. You might want to Weapon Blanch the Au. see Pellet Blast. Abundant Ammunition won't work as Coin Shot says it transforms 3 coins to do this.
seems like a kineticist spell...To many abbreviations - you lost me totally...
I think you are saying it's a good spell for someone below 5th level?
correct