Okay, so first for those that don't know about it, there is a section in the Champions of Purity, Champions of Balance, and Champions of Corruption books which give some advanced (optional) alignment rules where you actually have a code of conduct to help with your roleplay. Each has 3 examples.
One of the neutral evil ones is narcissist, which is as follows.
Narcissists
Narcissists see meaning and beauty in the world—but only when they look in a mirror. For narcissists, the world truly does revolve around them:
whatever makes them unhappy is a tragic injustice, and whatever pleases them is theirs by divine right.
Narcissists can be genuinely bewildered—or homicidally enraged—by suggestions that anyone else's concerns take precedence over theirs. The narcissist differs from the lawful evil tyrant in that he has no particular need for power or authority, so long as all his whims are catered to without question. It's only when those whims are denied that the true, uncaring evil of the narcissist rears its bloody head.
If you are a narcissist, you:
See everything in terms of its effect on you.
Are surprised, shocked, or disgusted when the world or other people don't cater to your expectations.
Are incapable of empathizing with others and can justify just about any horrific actions that serve your greater purpose.Code: The universe knows what you want, so what does it expect when it doesn't it give it to you?
Now, how would a PC like that get along with a Paladin of Shelyn? The narcissist isn't about being evil for evil's sake, but she has that extreme selfishness that tends to evil.
Being so ugly on the inside yet (let's assume) beautiful on the outside, how would a paladin of Shelyn treat/work with such a person?
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That's going to be a classic case of redemption versus emotional abuse.
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A paladin of Shelyn should be much more interested about a person's beauty on the inside. But paladins of Shelyn are also very into redemption, or making something beautiful out of something ugly. So the paladin could take on the character as a "project" to be fixed.
The Narcissist would probably hate the Paladin of Shelyn though, for not accepting how "perfect" they are.
Good points, both of you. :)
But, you think they could get along in the context of an AP (that is as far as the paladin code is concerned... yeah the narcissist is going to be hatin')? The Narcissist will still do the AP, she'll just be doing it for the material gain (think of the extravagant gowns she can buy with that 200 platinum being offered) and the paladin will be doing it for the good.
In a way, I guess it's a matter of when will the paladin of Shelyn decide "This woman is not going to change her ways, I'm leaving." and would she fall before that?
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Get along? That's a tough call. I'd say they would be very involved in each other's lives, but it may be a case of "hate to love / love to hate".
Get along was poor choice of words... work together despite the paladin code as long as she was trying to also get her to be less selfish.
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The narcissist would likely hate the Paladin because the Paladin would see right through their facade. They would see that the narcissist's beauty is gilded in nature, but at the same time they would know that even the thinnest layer of gold is still gold and see potential for their redemption. The Paladin should be able to work with the narcissist and would actively be attempting to help them grow as a person as well as whatever their primary mission is.
HOWEVER, that is all speaking from the perspective of characters in a narrative. We must remember that characters are attached to real people in a tabletop rpg. I'm not sure if this is what you're trying to do, but if you're creating a character designed to be a foil to a Paladin of Shelyn already in your group's party then you need to be discussing this with that player, not with us.
Oh no no, nothing like that. They are actually both party NPCs in a one-on-one game where the player really wants to play Carrion Crown but doesn't want to deal with certain other players in our gaming group that seem to love to sabotage Carrion Crown the past times I've tried running it.
So, this is me trying to come up with some good roleplay opportunities for it other than just going from point A to point B as per the AP.
So you're interested in getting your PC to mediate between the paladin and the narcissist?
Not really, no... I mean that might or might not happen. I was also curious about it from a player standpoint, if I did have more than one player and so these were not NPCs but actual players, could they work together, or would I have to tell them to figure out who is rolling a new character?
Barring a near-apocalyptic scenario, I do not see them getting along well. It is like people both being interested in, say, politics, but with extremely different moral and social viewpoints, and both feeling pretty strongly about the topic.
Considering neither character is likely to keep mum about it - the narcissist because hey, why should s/he care about the feelings of other people and the paladin because you are likely to be pretty driven to be ordained as one - it is not likely to be a pleasant company for anyone around, and I do not see them sticking together for long unless literally forced to. While the campaign does involve a plot to do something pretty apocalyptic, the players don't know about it until pretty late on, iirc.
They could get along- the narcissist amused by the paladin's quaint views, enjoying the company for the entertainment value,and the paladin patiently working to reform the narcissist, mitigating any harm done and working toward the greater good.
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So you're interested in getting your PC to mediate between the paladin and the narcissist?Not really, no... I mean that might or might not happen. I was also curious about it from a player standpoint, if I did have more than one player and so these were not NPCs but actual players, could they work together, or would I have to tell them to figure out who is rolling a new character?
They could work together, but it would probably be under extraordinary circumstances and there would be quite a bit of conflict.
Which is why I wouldn't recommend it with NPC party members unless you expect that the player will enjoy somehow being involved in that conflict - mediating, taking sides, whatever. I don't believe the average player would enjoy just sitting back and watching the GM acting out repeated and lengthy arguments, though of course your player could be the exception.
A Narcissist (as described here) fundamentally sees other people as things. Mere props rather than individuals with feelings of their own.
They will do very bad things (hence the whole evil alignment) that a Paladin simply won't be able to put up with. Since to the Narcissist, the Paladin is also just another 'thing' that doesn't matter and shouldn't be allowed to interfere with personal desires, it most certainly would not go well.
To give you an idea, I would consider Joffrey Baratheon from Game of Thrones to be a narcissist.
The thing is, the narcissist alignment with some degree of consideration for others - at least an enlightened self-interest - and caring for a close circle, in as much as they provide spiritual comfort and a reliable environment - may well be seen as a true neutral alignment. TNs can be quite selfish, as well. Outright NE narcissism as described in the opening post is a lot darker and more abusive.
If a character got to be a paladin, s/he knows how to make moral stands, stand up for principles, and not turn a blind eye to genuine human suffering. While s/he may appreciate the talents and gifts of abusive, vicious people, that does not mean s/he will ignore their bad side and do nothing about it. On the other hand, if the other character is a bad enough narcissist to ping evil, they are really not nice when it comes to some scrub denying them their rights and challenging their authority, especially someone they have to endure being with for a long period of time.
Hmm yeah I might not make her a full paladin then... maybe just a warpriest. Anyone actually played one? Are they any good and how do they measure up vs. a paladin?
Actually think I might just ditch the narcissist NPC entirely... Would be better not to open the can of worms a narcissistic NPC is LOL
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Well, what's your player like, and what are they playing?
While a narcissist NPC is definitely a tricky thing, I know one or two people who would actually enjoy interacting with one and trying to reform or manipulate them.
The player also may or may not appreciate a paladin, depending on whether they are playing a heroic character themselves.
I have not played a warpriest personally but as I understand it they are trickier to build, mechanically, than a paladin, and less effective against undead due to not having smite.